she isn't someone I would have pegged as a risk but now I think about it she did drink a moderate amount when pregnant (at the time I thought fair enough your body but now her kids are a nightmare and I guess medicine isn't always wrong)

She certainly sounds quite thirsty.

She may have a binge drinking problem rather than be an alcoholic as such 

:-/

sadmax tho 

well I thought that but (a) binge drinkers tend not to have built up that sort of stamina and (b) now I think about it she probably does drink quite a lot in the house

I really hate when people try to bully you into joining them why can't they just be alcoholics on their own??

4 bottles of wine is defo a bit toppy.  Maybe the gin was to calm her down.

agreed

4 bottles is way more than I have ever successfully drunk in a night

basically I have decided not to drink because it looks really gross from the outside

Only if the person is an obnoxious drinker, which you are not.

I would like to meet this friend, as it would almost inevitably lead to her taking it in the arse

And four bottles of wine is enough to put you in hospital, surely? I'm not a lightweight but I drank four bottles of wine shared with another person once and had one of the worst hangovers of my life.

It was on a school night as well. My boss phoned me repeatedly the next morning to find out where I was and I kept hanging up because I thought it was my alarm and in my head I was hitting the snooze button. When I finally realised what was happening I saw he had called me 15 times.

Tbf hooli she might be but no1 outside the gorbels would understand her

It's tough. Ignoring it is the easy option. But when I did try to talk about it with my friend she lied and said it was an old issue and that everything was fine. Everything was not fine. I suspect everything is still not fine but I don't think she'd thank me for pointing that out.

I do really worry about it from a health perspective though. And rather selfishly, I don't want to lose one of my best friends when their liver packs up in a decade or so.

Is this the woman who was going to drive the next day?!??

I have done 12 bottles of wine/fizz plus a few beers between 3 people on xmas day before now (between say 10am and midnight) but I was definitely absolutely sh1tfaced by the end of it.  Half a bottle of gin on top and still walking and talking is pretty scary particularly for a woman.  

That is 20 plus pints. Even on the biggest all day drinking session most people just wouldn't get there.

Whether is a 'sadmax' or not depends on how often she does it and whether she genuinely enjoys it I think.  

Cirrhosis of the liver or oesophageal cancer is going to be sadmax no matter how much she enjoys it Donny 

Did she drink the 4 bottles of wine and half a bottle of gin (with no mixers?) all by herself?

Just trying to imagine the scene if she did.

Did no-one comment on it at the time? Not in terms of suggesting she slow down (sounds like no point getting the inevitable reaction from her) but just observing how much she was knocking back?

How was her driving you back to the station at 7am, Clergz? (I'm assuming you didn't really let her do this, FAOD)

isn’t this the third thread, at least, on the same topic?

She was obviously an alcoholic at the start of the first oneZ

4 bottles of wine and half a bottle of gin - are you sure she drank this much? - would only be possible for a very hard core drinker so you are right she is an alcoholic.  If she has built up that level of tolerance she must be well aware of it already 

have you ever considered that this woman may just need a boyfriend, and this is all a cry for help because shes lonely and unable to get through life alone so finds comfort in the drink

Drink up, Guy.

This is a new thread on the same event post-that event Laz. Unlike the two you started on the NZ volcano tragedy 'cos you got called out on the first one.

Do try to keep up.

The last time I drank 2 bottles of wine and one gin and tonic I couldn't get out of bed till 2pm the next day and was sick 3 times (not in the bed I got out for that)

I take back the binge thing, she must habitually be drinking a fook ton. 
still sadmax tho 

Anyway, enough of Laz trying to make it about him.

Clergz - RSVP re: whether she drank the 4 bottles wine plus 1/2 bottle gin all by herself. Were people actively keeping a watch on her intake throughout?

1. There is nothing you can do. You did not cause it, you can’t control it and you sure as hell cant cure it. 

2. What Meh said about it being v sad thinking that someone you are close to could succumb to the disease. But again, there’s nothing you can do about it. What you can control is how you manage your friendship in the meantime (inc boundaries to protect yourself if their drinking affects you I.e. seeing them for coffee mornings rather than evening drinks etc). 

3. Binge drinkers can also be alcoholics. 

I doubt I could get past 2.5 bottles of wine without throwing up. 

Not sure ignoring it is actually very good advice there FF although I agree that the only person who can deal with it is the person herself. 

But. We are all pretty good at self delusion. And addicts are fooking world class at it. 

Sometimes it’s only when the realisation sets in that it’s obvious to everyone else that a person is able to finally stop lying to them self. 
 

I was there so I saw how much she drank and yes by herself

I had about half a bottle (plus a mouthful of the gin and "tonic" she made me)

it was obvious because she is very pushy about how much everyone else drinks

Where did I suggest ignoring it? Reassuring someone that there’s nothing they can do is not a recommendation to ignore it, and certainly not a recommendation to accept unacceptable behaviour from the alcoholic. 

If you alter your behaviour around alcoholics (such as not engaging with them when they are drinking) then that can sometimes be an action which leads them to look at their behaviour. Or not. There is often a huge amount of denial. 

Apologies. I understood your “there is nothing you can do” as a suggestion along those lines. However, again, your 11:40 focussed on self-protective measures. Which are entirely legitimate and sometimes appropriate of course. 

What I was getting at was that as a friend I think Clergs owes it to her pal to have an honest conversation with her. 

I think a key point here is if she is drinking 55 units in a day without ending up in hospital, or at least paraletic /throwing up she KNOWS she is an alcoholic.   This is not a grey zone, start of slippery slope, word to the wise territory, this is the full blow real deal - therefore tread carefully.

after all this you only 'think' shes an alcoholic

Clerghers, is she chaotic in other aspects of her life?  Apart from her being socially embarrassing, have you noticed it affecting her work, family, finances etc?

I have a friend who is struggling with addiction issues and it is seriously fooking his life up.

4 bottles of wine and half a bottle of gin and all that previous you've described and you're still tentatively nudging towards a conclusion.
Glasgow is hard core.

Tats oot.

Hopefully she didn’t drive!

Enjoying your work on this thread tigerlilly 

So at this group of friends event everyone ordered their own bottles of wine etc and sat there drinking only from their own supply rather than, say, sharing a bottle of red and a bottle of white etc then re-ordering for the group as and when?

Sounds like a strange arrangement and a crowded table.

Normal in Scotchland

Ensures no sharing 

The table wine was not very nice so only one person drank it. And ordered another bottle no one else wanted.

By way of context she was once in love with a Turkish waiter who stole £3000 from her. So she might actually not realise.

Four bottles of wine is the same as a litre bottle of vodka just about.  I could cane that even now, probably by lunchtime.  It’s not the quantity of drink anyway, who are we to judge, it’s their life.  It was the driving the next morning bit that pissed me off.

This reminds me of a house party on a Boxing Day morning one year, when young, when the kitchen and living room was crammed with empty bottles and cans. About eight of us stood about in the kitchen to organise the tidy up. We were probably all still drunk from the night before. A couple of women but mostly blokes (including a couple of Jarpie 'Bush War' vets. So, no lightweights there.) The only thing left standing was a full bottle of Campari. (Who drinks that? And why?) We decided between us to drink what remained. We passed the bottle for each to swig. Effing heck, even we struggled to get through it.

JC I don't know about chaos generally, she doesn't seem to have a problem with work etc.

Sounds like a binge drinker rather than a classic alcoholic.  But that is a v slippery slope and of course she could be adept at hiding her drinking so you may never realise if it’s a regular thing.

That is a lot of drink on any construction. The most I have ever drank, starting at mid-day and finishing about 3 AM the next is 3 bottles of white and 6 cans of stella. As one can imagine hangover was awful. I did not move from bed for nearly 24 hours.

I can never drink beer after wine, too much liquid.  

Clerghers, have drinks ravaged her looks?

Clergs - I'm still having difficulty seeing how this played out at the time and on the table from what you've said. Everyone ordered their own bottles of wine and only drank from their own bottles throughout?

BC, I may be wrong but I think the event in question was not at a sit down meal but a weekend away in rural Scotland. The friend diarised to put away a good few units, advice was sought on the board as to whether Clergs should accept a lift the next morning. The original thread responses were divided and ultimately, it was decided that a couple bottles of plonk would be a green light to drive the next morning. What has followed suit is that said pal doubled the diarised intake and then was so thirsty, washed down a couple more. Clergs hasn’t said whether or not she accepted the car lift the next day, despite needing to ask the question in the first place! 

Morning Lark: being “called out” by you is a sign that one’s doing something right.

ps KABOOOOOOOOOOM

heh

and actually no, jc, she is very big but always has been and her face is youthful

In my head, bright carvers posts are all read out in a really shrill, nasally whine. Especially the silent “actually” that precedes each one of them. 

That's nice, Zero. Hope you have a good one.

Clergs - does everyone bring and drink only their own bottles with no sharing then? Fair enough but seems a bit weird on a social gathering weekend of friends.

when you drink five times as much as the next person it is fairly obvious what you drank

Fair enough, just seems a bit weird. Glad you got back safely and hopefully enjoyed seeing everyone else there, etc.

Teclis, the only reason you can cane a litre of vodka before lunch is because you are an alcoholic.    Somebody who can drink that much alcohol (plus half a bottle of gin) in a single session is an alcoholic not just a binge drinker.   I still suspect an element of exaggeration on Clergs part mind...

You reckon Clergs' friend is just touchy and not actually super-touchy, Guy?

When you say "very big",that might be important context.  How big?  Are we talking "Staypuft Marshmallow Man" from Ghostbusters?  In that case, you're really describing quite a moderate night.

Did you speak to her Clergs? It's quite a difficult subject to broach.

Guy, I’ve not had a drink in over a week and even then it was just a couple of cans of crappy lager with a mate.

You are conflating alcohol dependence and alcoholism.  The two are not the same.  For a while a few years ago I had become alcohol dependent but these days I can socially drink and leave it at that after a couple of bevvies for weeks at a time.

It’s a simple mistake to make as there is a very fine line but the distinction is important.

Teclis isn’t a question of alcohol abuse and alcoholism, the former is often an indication of the latter.

Ok tecco, I thought you had said you were an alcoholic in the past - if you didn’t I apologise it is not for me to say what you are.  However I struggle to see how you can build up a tolerance for the equivalent of a litre plus of hard spirits without being one

Oh I’m sure I did say it because I didn’t realise there was a difference either.  But when the root cause of my alcohol abuse (which had led to a dependency) was addressed, it became clear that I wasn’t an alcoholic as I have no desire at all most of the time.  Hell I have beers in the fridge and a bottle of wine that’s been in there for like, a couple of months. 

Please explain the difference between those 3 categories? 

Abuse = someone who drinks far more than they should, often in binges.

Dependence = someone who has become chemically dependent on alcohol and drinks because it makes the withdrawal symptoms go away and also helps with emotional stuff.

Alcoholism = someone who just cannot stop drinking, they are usually dependent but even if they manage to wean off they really can’t go back to drinking or they will just revert to drinking constantly again.  These guys have an actual urge to drink, not necessarily because of anything going on around them but because they are addicted to it.

 Thanks. 

How is being chemically dependent on something different from being addicted to it?

It lacks the emotional attachment to the item in question.  If the chemical dependency is removed and the root cause of the abuse is dealt with (in my case depression) then there is no further need to abuse / become dependent.

Being addicted to something like alcohol is a strange emotional relationship that I don’t really understand tbh, but people lie, cheat, steal, beg their way into being able to have the next drink purely for the sake of having a drink.

A dependence isn’t like that at all, it’s a chemical consequence only and you can get a bit desperate in order to either not get the withdrawal symptoms or because you are scared of dying.  The symptoms of dependence are a bloody nightmare if untreated and can, literally, kill you.

Hmm, never seen that distinction before - seems odd to claim that if you stop taking a drug you suffer withdrawal symptoms so severe you can die and say that is not addiction 

It’s been difference between saying “I want that bottle of vodka because I want it”.

vs

”I want that bottle of vodka to stop me feeling so bad and to ensure I don’t die of a seizure, even tho I wish I didn’t need it.”

Which is why the identification of each type has to be made, when I went to the doc he gave me some tablets to stop the symptoms of withdrawal and some stuff to deal with the depression which I took simultaneously.  I then took six months entirely without alcohol thinking that I was an alcoholic.  I wasn’t because I never had an urge to go buying tons of booze.

I had been drinking as a coping mechanism for depression and became dependent for a while, but when the benzos protected me from the withdrawals and the anti-depressents helped me cope with the breakdown I’d had, there was no burning desire for booze.  I now know I can have w couple of pints or glasses of wine and not need to go and pick up bottles of the stuff to drink later, an alcoholic could never do that.