Discussion

Main Board| Accommodation Wanted| Accommodation Offered
Start a new discussion on this board

Let your next career move come to you.

Brexit just got interesting again

Big Nige:

We’re giving away in excess of £40bn in return for precisely nothing. Trapped still inside the European Union’s rule book, continuing free movement of people, continuing with a foreign court having a say over our own country. Nothing has been achieved other than giving away a huge sum of money.”

He described Theresa May as “not just the worst prime minister I’ve ever seen but perhaps the most dishonest one as well”.

He added: “Get rid of her. Let’s get somebody else, let’s come back to the EU and say ‘look, let’s have a simple free trade deal or we are leaving on WTO (World Trade Organisation) terms’. And do you know what? They’ll bite our arms off.”

I wonder if this was May's tactic all along. Negotiate a deal so unpalatable that no one will go for it and it ends up in a second referendum and we can all just vote to remain.

 

 

1. kinda playing it fast and loose with "interesting again" there

2. "Theresa May" and "tactic" go together like baileys and lager 

3. I do love Hero Nige thrashing around completely impotently and unable to do anything

 

What Wellers said. May is looking for a way to resign with some semblance of dignity/honour I think.  If we have a general election though we are likely to end up with a hung parliament again with Jezza on one side and a Brexiteer headbanger on the other.  That is going to make things much worse.

 

well, we have definitely found out, the hard way, that referendums are not really a very good idea, especially on complicated issues

but I don't really see any way out of having a 2nd referendum to undo the madness of the 1st

if the 2nd is a stupid result as well, then we have only ourselves to blame

but it would still be parliament's job to rule in the best interests of the country as a whole, whatever the result

referndums are a good way of deciding things if you have them often and people are engaged and empowered about politics

where they go badly is when you run a country under a quasi feudal system that has become essentially a single city management rts and doesn't really give any thought to the needs of the electorate so the electorate rightly switches off since they have more control over X factor than they do of the muppet running around saying "britain wants this!"

 

Problem with a second referendum is that to be remotely fair it has to be (at least) a 3 way question.

1. Accept Deal on Table

2. Leave on WTO terms

3. Remain

I guess you could have second preference voting and a run off but it's quite complicated. 

Donny I think with that you'd find an overwhelming majority in favour of Remain as the other two options would effectively split the leaver vote and then they'll complain for another ten years that it wasn't fair because the question was designed to screw them.  Remoaner friend of mine has been peddling polls that show that for ages.

Think to be fair you'd have to have four options with two different remain questions but not sure what the second would be.  We also need an assurance from the EU that we'd be able to stay on our current terms and I fear that would not be forthcoming.

Extension to what Serge? The EU aren’t going to give us a year to dick about with WTO terms without an NI backstop. 

2. is just hard Brexit or else we are asking people to vote in favour of a deal the EU aren’t offering us. 

2 absolutely is an option. A sh1tty option but it is an option. We can simply leave the EU.  Some bad stuff might happen if the EU are d1cks about it but it can be done. 

 

DDS: can we though? What happens in Northern Ireland? Hard brexit = hard border = breach of international treaty and no statutory authorisation as a matter of UK law

But if you prefer it can be 

1. Accept Deal on Table.

2. Leave with no deals.

3. Remain. 

Accept deal on table would surely come last. Nobody thinks its a good deal, not even TMPM. 

I suspect 2 would win personally. 

Sails - Yes I get a three way question that splits leave would be unfair which is why I said you could have second preference voting.  If Remain gets over 50% of the vote then remain wins (as would any other option with over 50% of the vote).  If not then option with the lowest number of votes gets eliminated. People express a second preference when they vote and their votes are then counted for the second preference to determine the outcome. 

 

wouldn't it have to be 2 questions:

do you want to remain or leave

if we leave, do you want to leave with no deal or the deal TMPM has negotiated

and everyone would have a vote on the first question and a vote on the second question

That is the precise issue Pavement.  You effectively need those two options but they will cause ongoing enmity of the kind we've had since the referendum with people complaining that it wasn't fair because it didn't spell out the terms on which we'd leave.

Also, I think the elctorate might go for it. They are fed up with the whole thing. Five years ago Nigel Farage was telling anyone who’d listen that leaving would be a cinch, the EU would make it easy etc etc and no one in the UK now believes that.

So, given that a second ref/canning Leave has been definitively ruled out, this is the best we’re going to get. In fact whatever she comes up with will have to be accepted and we can all move on. Leavers will grumble that its not the deal they expected but they might be fewer in number these days. Remainers will also grumble but they might think this is the best we can get and “at least” it has been a Remain PM leading it.

i dont personaLly agree with it and this is hardly rocket science political analysis, but in terms of votes it is the least frightening scenario. And let’s be honest they’re a bunch of cowardly fantasists, the MPs, so they will go with it.

We've already voted to leave without any mention of a "deal". That's been decided.

Any 2nd ref should be:

1. Accept the "deal" on the table, probably a Europhile fudge; or

2. Leave with no strings.

Heff - the two stage question wouldn't work. People might very well want to leave on the basis of the deal on the table but would want to remain if there is no support for that deal or vice versa (i.e. they might want to leave on WTO terms but prefer to remain than accept a fudge). 

I think a single transferable vote gets you there on a three way option. 

The referendum was a good idea. Given the vast turn out it was clearly a question people wanted to have a say on.

And the question was fine. Leave or Remain in the EU

What the Remain side didn’t do a good enough job on was explaining to people the consequences and rebutting the unicorn rainbow excreting Leave claims.

Consequences are well known about now, as is the inability to negotiate a departure on the basis of truly Leaving, so presume a 2nd ref would lead to a better informed vote

What the Remain side didn’t do a good enough job on was explaining to people the consequences and rebutting the unicorn rainbow excreting Leave claims.

Err rhe Remain side did exactly that but it was all Project Fear remember?

anyone know whether we will still contribute to EU budget for as long as we stay in the Customs Union? I assume yes, but some people trying to sell this deal are saying no.

Join the discussion

Login Register