No, because I was always going to send my two kids to state secondary school.
Even if I was inclined to do so and could afford it, I wouldn’t do it in my circumstances because the quality of education offered by local independent schools isn’t better than local state, and I consider anyone spending £50k a year post-tax income to send their two kids to any of them in preference to the excellent state secondary to be borderline mentally ill.
As someone alleged on a different thread I will be “flash” and spend that money taking my wife and kids on holiday instead.
It would have to be pretty bad to justify £50k+ post-tax annual income spend for me. I also factor in how absolutely dreadful the parents would be at the school gate and the khvnty entitled kids they’d associate with. All the kids going private from my sinks primary school class apart from one are the kids I’d prefer him to lose contact with.
Yeah thankfully there’s almost nobody I’m aware of who has moved just to get in. In fact this year it’s undersubscribed so let in some out of catchment.
Because I’m a trustee of the MAT the school is in, I can see there is a standard mix of SEN, pupil premium, looked-after children, some exclusions and so alternative provision and a large majority of well behaved bright and motivated children achieving excellent results and going to good Unis and apprenticeships. A proper slice of society, just like the radius around it.
I am amazed at this thread that people are actually boasting about how much they earn in "I am considerably richer than yous" as if it was something to be proud of rather than a bit of embarrassment (as inevitably you will not do anything of real value to society to justify if) it is far better to keep quite about. Not classy.
Dux, I am investing in their future by not sending them to private school. My assessment is that they will be much better of as a result, in numerous ways. My assessment is based on my own experiences and the people I know. I'm amazed by the number of people who just can't get beyond the de facto assertion that of course a private education will be better.
Not clear that the Lazlings will go to private secondary school. Ideally I’d like them to go to one of the grammars. I will however miss the pleasant corps of amiable and well educated, interesting people constituting the parent body of the prep school the kids go to at present.
Middle class ideologue advocates of state school are such priggish bores
The issue dux for these admittedly rather vulgar rich lawyers seems to be that they can’t find the right school for their kids. Which is odd, given the time they spend finding cars and holidays to flash their cash on. It’s almost as if they don’t really understand the benefits of a better education.
"Middle class ideologue advocates of state school are such priggish bores"
It's a relatively new phenomenon. Amusing to think that back in the '60s, even Tony Benn happily sent his children to independent schools without the baying mob calling for his head.
aah what a shame - they speak so highly of you, pinko
If there is any resentment it’s probably that my kids are thriving without the weird hothousing they all do over primary school tests, and to even catch up they’re going to be sending their little darlings miles away and spending a fortune they’ll only get back if their parents die quickly and don’t spend too much on nursing homes
VAT on school fees may cause me to 'break the bank' - but not by paying these increased school fees but by paying the extra to move to and live in the catchment areas of top performing state schools in the Home Counties.
It’s almost as if they don’t really understand the benefits of a better education
Does it buy you into a better class of being a dull paper shuffler so bored they spend their time ROFing?
What if my kids have seen what joining the professions looks like and don’t fancy it? What would I be buying if I don’t want to churn out dull facsimiles of myself, doing the same boring careers?
I’ve seen the Unis and courses these schools the graduates of these 11-18 private schools go on to. If you don’t want to be a lawyer, accountant, etc.. what’s the investment in? The unis and courses of the school my kids will go to are much more varied and interesting. And my kids will learn to get on with everyone in society, not just the children of wealthy people. So that’s nice
The unis and courses of the school my kids will go to are much more varied and interesting.
out of interest, why do you expect your kids will go to different unis than their privately-educated peers? (i get that there are certain boring courses/careers that you think private kids will be steered towards, but not why you think yours will need to be at different universities)
fun fact: the brothers who co-founded Rockstar Games went to St Paul's (parents: actress and lawyer), so they certainly broke this imagined mould, although they are very much outliers one suspects.
The best state schools are not always in the wealthiest areas. People seem to obsess over results rather than value add. The latter is the real test, the rest is snobbery. If you have a bright kid well supported at home then he or she will do best at schools that add most value, not schools that get results that just reflect the intake.
Guy, one common complaint is that (some) state schools are incentivised to focus most on kids for whom they can deliver the greatest improvement, in pursuit of these "value-added" targets. This is great if your child is a low to average performer whose grades are dragged up significantly schools, not so great for brighter than average kids who receive less attention and get "lost" in the middle of the pack.
It strikes me as a bit of a mumsnetty reasoning, possibly by people retrospectivley justifying their decision to go private, but I do suspect there is some truth in it, for some schools at least.
Guy, one common complaint is that (some) state schools are incentivised to focus most on kids for whom they can deliver the greatest improvement, in pursuit of these "value-added" targets. This is great if your child is a low to average performer whose grades are dragged up significantly schools, not so great for brighter than average kids who receive less attention and get "lost" in the middle of the pack.
This is bollocks and not how the system you refer to as “value add” works. It’s much easier for a school to score well on progress by taking a bright kid up the scores than it is concentrating on less bright kids with additional challenges. This is partly addressed through pupil premium and SEN funding, but by no means fully. Which is why selective schools being seen as “better” is often ridiculous.
The oft-cited concern issue (bollocks or otherwise) is that state schools are motivated to focus resources on the kids at either ends of ranges of ability (or those who are easily motivated), with kids in the middle getting "lost". A description like yours above, especially coming from someone closely involved in the schooling system ("easier for a school to score well on progress by taking a bright kid up the scores" ; "pupil premium and SEN funding" at the other end) is not likely to allay those concerns.
In any case, it's most seen deployed on the likes of mumsnet by parents of presumably middlingly feckless kids looking to reinforce their decision to go private.
How much is stamp duty on a decent gaff in the best catchments in the Home Counties?
About £100k on a £1.5m house isn’t it? Big call
Suitable property doesn't need to cost that much in those areas. What's more, history suggests that you may get much of the costs back eventually when you sell up (tax free too assuming main res) but paying school fees is like paying rent when eventually you walk away empty handed.
There seems to be a common misconception that parents send their kids to private school simply because they think they will get a better education. Many of the parents I speak to do it because of the ex-curricular offering, whether that is in sports, music, arts or something else. That’s the key difference between private and state for me. It’s about giving my kids the chance to try anything and everything and to find their passion in life. I’ll swallow the VAT increase but I do resent it and I won’t vote labour because of it (but won’t vote conservative either because they are a bunch of clowns).
My kids are in a free state grammar and I have just invested some of the savings in extra popcorn supplies to watch the middle class squeal. Well worth it m8s.
Brutus you spend tens of thousands of pounds on private education because you can’t find good activities for your kids to do outside school time? That’s some next-level density right there.
My children go to private, but that’s primarily because we are in walking distance of one of the top schools in London. We aren’t huge fans of the private school set up (we are both state educated) but the local state alternatives were shocking. I didn’t grow up in London but the state schools here are definitely rougher than my hometown. We also regularly have the discussion “is it worth it”. I try not to think of the cost because my mind would explode.
There has been a lot of discussion about the VAT increase amongst the parents. Most private schools have hiked their fees by a considerable amount already, so the VAT increase will hurt. It’s really quite sad that the ones that are likely to leave are the working class parents. The mega rich (often with the spoilt brats) will be undeterred.
We have checked the local council website for in-year admissions to our nearest primary which is heavily oversubscribed. Only likely to get worse in the coming months.
In my experience (kids at outstanding North London primary till Year 4/5 and then private), by far the worst snobbery and parental attitudes were from the middle class parents who got their kids into the school and saved the school fees. Everything from bragging about their skiiing holidays to forming cliques and excluding the working class parents and sneering about them (sometimes very obviously). It’s like they HAD to prove their superiority because they were forced to be in a school which let in working class types.
The working class parents though were absolutely fine at the school gate and elsewhere once they figured out you didn’t look down on them.
The private school parents - where there are obviously no working class parents - were far nicer and more down to earth. A few genuinely wealthy ones but mostly people making sacrifices for the private education and a lot more welcoming and less cliquish. Also no chip on their shoulder and nothing to prove.
The private school parents - where there are obviously no working class parents
Why obviously? There were plenty of working-class kids in my year at school on full bursaries etc. Council houses, the full works. It caused no social friction, nor any problems at all really, except they had to be reminded by the masters to say "lavatory" instead of "toilet".
It’s just a regular North London fee paying school - not a public school. I’m not sure if they even do any bursaries etc (maybe I’m just not aware). I suppose there could be some working class families with money - I’ve just not encountered any
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No
Mainly because I don't use private schools given who they produce
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And because you can't afford private.
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No, because I was always going to send my two kids to state secondary school.
Even if I was inclined to do so and could afford it, I wouldn’t do it in my circumstances because the quality of education offered by local independent schools isn’t better than local state, and I consider anyone spending £50k a year post-tax income to send their two kids to any of them in preference to the excellent state secondary to be borderline mentally ill.
As someone alleged on a different thread I will be “flash” and spend that money taking my wife and kids on holiday instead.
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If the local secondary school weren't so good would they still be borderline mentally ill? What if they were mentally ill? One mustn't judge.
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It would have to be pretty bad to justify £50k+ post-tax annual income spend for me. I also factor in how absolutely dreadful the parents would be at the school gate and the khvnty entitled kids they’d associate with. All the kids going private from my sinks primary school class apart from one are the kids I’d prefer him to lose contact with.
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I live in a place with a sought after state school. The parents are no less dreadful. Big houses in the right streets.
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Yeah thankfully there’s almost nobody I’m aware of who has moved just to get in. In fact this year it’s undersubscribed so let in some out of catchment.
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Because I’m a trustee of the MAT the school is in, I can see there is a standard mix of SEN, pupil premium, looked-after children, some exclusions and so alternative provision and a large majority of well behaved bright and motivated children achieving excellent results and going to good Unis and apprenticeships. A proper slice of society, just like the radius around it.
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Lol at an eqt city partner not being able to afford private school
Does say a lot about GC, Slough's best paralegal though,
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Good thing about private is chippy working class porkers like Davos are screened out.
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Chippy yes
Working class - yes and proud
Earn more than you - inevitably
Porker - heh, ripped AF
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I am amazed at this thread that people are actually boasting about how much they earn in "I am considerably richer than yous" as if it was something to be proud of rather than a bit of embarrassment (as inevitably you will not do anything of real value to society to justify if) it is far better to keep quite about. Not classy.
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I just don't understand why obscenely rich people would refuse to invest in a half-decent education for their children, "on principle".
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Dux, it’s not just on principle but it is part of it. Happy to discuss why choice of state over private wasn’t a refusal to invest in their future
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Dux, I am investing in their future by not sending them to private school. My assessment is that they will be much better of as a result, in numerous ways. My assessment is based on my own experiences and the people I know. I'm amazed by the number of people who just can't get beyond the de facto assertion that of course a private education will be better.
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Agreed
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All the kids going private from my sinks primary school class apart from one are the kids I’d prefer him to lose contact with.
aah what a shame - they speak so highly of you, pinko
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No. I can afford to pay it.
Not clear that the Lazlings will go to private secondary school. Ideally I’d like them to go to one of the grammars. I will however miss the pleasant corps of amiable and well educated, interesting people constituting the parent body of the prep school the kids go to at present.
Middle class ideologue advocates of state school are such priggish bores
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The issue dux for these admittedly rather vulgar rich lawyers seems to be that they can’t find the right school for their kids. Which is odd, given the time they spend finding cars and holidays to flash their cash on. It’s almost as if they don’t really understand the benefits of a better education.
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It's a relatively new phenomenon. Amusing to think that back in the '60s, even Tony Benn happily sent his children to independent schools without the baying mob calling for his head.
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Larrence has a very good school near him he’d be a fool not to send the nuggets there.
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If there is any resentment it’s probably that my kids are thriving without the weird hothousing they all do over primary school tests, and to even catch up they’re going to be sending their little darlings miles away and spending a fortune they’ll only get back if their parents die quickly and don’t spend too much on nursing homes
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heh
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VAT on school fees may cause me to 'break the bank' - but not by paying these increased school fees but by paying the extra to move to and live in the catchment areas of top performing state schools in the Home Counties.
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Does it buy you into a better class of being a dull paper shuffler so bored they spend their time ROFing?
What if my kids have seen what joining the professions looks like and don’t fancy it? What would I be buying if I don’t want to churn out dull facsimiles of myself, doing the same boring careers?
I’ve seen the Unis and courses these schools the graduates of these 11-18 private schools go on to. If you don’t want to be a lawyer, accountant, etc.. what’s the investment in? The unis and courses of the school my kids will go to are much more varied and interesting. And my kids will learn to get on with everyone in society, not just the children of wealthy people. So that’s nice
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How much is stamp duty on a decent gaff in the best catchments in the Home Counties?
About £100k on a £1.5m house isn’t it? Big call
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The unis and courses of the school my kids will go to are much more varied and interesting.
out of interest, why do you expect your kids will go to different unis than their privately-educated peers? (i get that there are certain boring courses/careers that you think private kids will be steered towards, but not why you think yours will need to be at different universities)
fun fact: the brothers who co-founded Rockstar Games went to St Paul's (parents: actress and lawyer), so they certainly broke this imagined mould, although they are very much outliers one suspects.
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The best state schools are not always in the wealthiest areas. People seem to obsess over results rather than value add. The latter is the real test, the rest is snobbery. If you have a bright kid well supported at home then he or she will do best at schools that add most value, not schools that get results that just reflect the intake.
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Well if their parents are dull paper shufflers……
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People are overly obsessed with exam results, and barely give a thought to real education.
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Well if you want to get on….
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Guy, one common complaint is that (some) state schools are incentivised to focus most on kids for whom they can deliver the greatest improvement, in pursuit of these "value-added" targets. This is great if your child is a low to average performer whose grades are dragged up significantly schools, not so great for brighter than average kids who receive less attention and get "lost" in the middle of the pack.
It strikes me as a bit of a mumsnetty reasoning, possibly by people retrospectivley justifying their decision to go private, but I do suspect there is some truth in it, for some schools at least.
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Nah. Will just mean eating out 6 instead of 7 nights a week and maybe one less weekend away a year.
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Heh.
£50k? That won't even cover a weekend in Aspen.
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I don’t expect either of my kids to go to uni at all.
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No surprise there. Do they get it free at the football academy or do you have to pay something?
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I mean, fair play, much more money in being a premiership / championship football player than going to university.
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This is bollocks and not how the system you refer to as “value add” works. It’s much easier for a school to score well on progress by taking a bright kid up the scores than it is concentrating on less bright kids with additional challenges. This is partly addressed through pupil premium and SEN funding, but by no means fully. Which is why selective schools being seen as “better” is often ridiculous.
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The oft-cited concern issue (bollocks or otherwise) is that state schools are motivated to focus resources on the kids at either ends of ranges of ability (or those who are easily motivated), with kids in the middle getting "lost". A description like yours above, especially coming from someone closely involved in the schooling system ("easier for a school to score well on progress by taking a bright kid up the scores" ; "pupil premium and SEN funding" at the other end) is not likely to allay those concerns.
In any case, it's most seen deployed on the likes of mumsnet by parents of presumably middlingly feckless kids looking to reinforce their decision to go private.
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How much is stamp duty on a decent gaff in the best catchments in the Home Counties?
About £100k on a £1.5m house isn’t it? Big call
Suitable property doesn't need to cost that much in those areas. What's more, history suggests that you may get much of the costs back eventually when you sell up (tax free too assuming main res) but paying school fees is like paying rent when eventually you walk away empty handed.
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eqt city partner! heh
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There seems to be a common misconception that parents send their kids to private school simply because they think they will get a better education. Many of the parents I speak to do it because of the ex-curricular offering, whether that is in sports, music, arts or something else. That’s the key difference between private and state for me. It’s about giving my kids the chance to try anything and everything and to find their passion in life. I’ll swallow the VAT increase but I do resent it and I won’t vote labour because of it (but won’t vote conservative either because they are a bunch of clowns).
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My kids are in a free state grammar and I have just invested some of the savings in extra popcorn supplies to watch the middle class squeal. Well worth it m8s.
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Brutus you spend tens of thousands of pounds on private education because you can’t find good activities for your kids to do outside school time? That’s some next-level density right there.
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Anyone need any vinegar?
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My children go to private, but that’s primarily because we are in walking distance of one of the top schools in London. We aren’t huge fans of the private school set up (we are both state educated) but the local state alternatives were shocking. I didn’t grow up in London but the state schools here are definitely rougher than my hometown. We also regularly have the discussion “is it worth it”. I try not to think of the cost because my mind would explode.
There has been a lot of discussion about the VAT increase amongst the parents. Most private schools have hiked their fees by a considerable amount already, so the VAT increase will hurt. It’s really quite sad that the ones that are likely to leave are the working class parents. The mega rich (often with the spoilt brats) will be undeterred.
We have checked the local council website for in-year admissions to our nearest primary which is heavily oversubscribed. Only likely to get worse in the coming months.
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Given these schools are charitable I’m sure they will absorb the VAT and not increase fees, and instead increase class sizes to offset it
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In my experience (kids at outstanding North London primary till Year 4/5 and then private), by far the worst snobbery and parental attitudes were from the middle class parents who got their kids into the school and saved the school fees. Everything from bragging about their skiiing holidays to forming cliques and excluding the working class parents and sneering about them (sometimes very obviously). It’s like they HAD to prove their superiority because they were forced to be in a school which let in working class types.
The working class parents though were absolutely fine at the school gate and elsewhere once they figured out you didn’t look down on them.
The private school parents - where there are obviously no working class parents - were far nicer and more down to earth. A few genuinely wealthy ones but mostly people making sacrifices for the private education and a lot more welcoming and less cliquish. Also no chip on their shoulder and nothing to prove.
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Cream will rise to the top anyway so may as well save yourself a few quid
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Especially seeing as how capital earns more than labour these days. The £500k you drop on education could set them up with an income for life.
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Channing has purchased personalised number plates for their school buses : chan van
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Why obviously? There were plenty of working-class kids in my year at school on full bursaries etc. Council houses, the full works. It caused no social friction, nor any problems at all really, except they had to be reminded by the masters to say "lavatory" instead of "toilet".
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It’s just a regular North London fee paying school - not a public school. I’m not sure if they even do any bursaries etc (maybe I’m just not aware). I suppose there could be some working class families with money - I’ve just not encountered any
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Fair enough. I agree with your sentiment anyway.
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