Does Common sense dictate that this has to be in the interests of patients who need dignity and privacy and safety over the feelings of exclusion of a very small minority ?
The exemptions in the EA 2010 allowing single sex spaces in certain circumstances are there for a reason. Some healthcare settings are a perfect example. In limited circumstances single sex spaces should be maintained notwithstanding the fact that some workers or patients have a gender identity. In most cases this won’t be the case, and I support thirds spaces if it is viable to balance the rights and interests of anyone involved, but if these are not possible and there is a clash between a woman’s reasonable expectation of a single sex space or same-sex care and hurting the feelings of someone with a gender identity, the woman’s reasonable expectation comes first. This balance calculation is the same as any other reality (sex) versus any other religious belief (as gender identity is).
To be fair to Parsnip, they said trans women were being excluded from women's NHS wards.
This is more accurate than much media reporting saying trans women (and it is always men who think they are women) being excluded from treatment, sports, etc... rather than being perfectly welcome to treatment or to participate in sports in their actual sex category, rather than based on their religious belief that they have a gender identity and this should dictate how the world is organised.
yeah basically everyone agrees with the premise, it’s just that the premise has practical meaning. It’s a dog whistle for Colin from Portsmouth to get outraged at something else that isn’t happening.
Having recently spent some time in hospital, I know I didn't care who was in the bed next to mine as I was so sick I just wanted to die.. Actually, I think the guy next to me did die.. but, I had all the privacy I wanted and it was respected. This is a non issue.
Are we really at the stage where bigots like Marshall genuinely think that trans people deliberately get ill because they ‘wish to make women feel uncomfortable when they are at their most vulnerable’?
yeah, there are not really any such things as "men's wards" and "women's wards". there will be different bays for men and women on the same ward.
The lack of any segregation by sex in NHS spaces will come as a surprise to NHS England, who commissioned a whole study on how to achieve the Government's aim of enhancing privacy and dignity by eliminating mixed-sex accomodation in 95% of Trusts.
all I can do is draw from my own experience, "You With The Face". i have never been in a "woman's ward". i have however seen segregation by sex on the same ward, like i just said.
in fact that seems to be acknowledged in the document you have helpfully provided
Separation of male and female patients is most easily achieved by introducing single sex wards. In most situations, this is difficult because of limited availability of wards and the demands of clinical specialties each of which does not require an individual ward.
Provision of individual clusters of single- and multi- bedded areas (with dedicated sanitary facilities – en- suite where possible) for each sex and separated by doors, clinical spaces or a nurse base will achieve the objectives of privacy and dignity.
and in the "audit standards"
All planned admissions are to single sex wards or single sex bays/ rooms within mixed wards.
Your experience was your experience, Eddie. Doesn't mean it's a non-issue for everyone. Women have been raped and sexually assaulted in hospital.
Not only have they been raped and sexually assaulted in hospital, but on at least one occasion, a Trust denied that a rape could have occurred because there were no men on the ward at the time, but in fact there was a man, he just said he was a woman.
There will come a point when it stops being fashionable to pretend to believe that penis havers who say they're women are meaningfully different from penis havers who don't do that shiz. I hope everyone currently in on the fad is secretly mortified when that happens.
Obviously too much to hope that they'll concede the shame openly.
not as mortified as the people who - as children - were led to believe, not that Father Christmas was real, but that drugs and surgery could magically transform them into the opposite sex.
It's really consternating how Americans have convinced the world to make the troubles of blokes with identity disorders the centre of feminism. I guess whatever I hope to die before getting to the hospital stage
I still don't get this. As pointed out above, one group have a mental condition/belief that says "I am you", the other are. The reason there is no controversy over "trans men" is men can't really GAF as they are the ones that have perpetrated misogyny for millenia. "Trans women" and their advocates look to wipe that out in one click of the fingers. Ultimately if it's a game of numbers then I am for the 50% of people that have been victims of discrimination for centuries rather than some noisy 1% that want to max out on "rights" cheered on by lots of men with zero concept of their privilege.
Yeah obvs there are more important things in life but if you are intrigued by this latest fashion for magical thinking (and recognise it’s importance beyond those directly harmed) then this is a fascinating podcast - extract below:
US focused (but UK born podcaster) - the actuality behind the trans high priests’ manipulated trans teen suicide risk proclamations is very interesting. As is the observation that there doesn’t appear to have been an epidemic of trans teen suicides prior to a tiny minority of the medical profession having revealed to them the true and urgent requirement for “trans affirmative healthcare” for children. I expect there’s a simple explanation which I’ve missed.
warren - in the interests of trying to better understand the “other side” can I persuade you to listen to the podcast referred to above and let me know what you think? please suggest something for me to listen to which you consider to be a good explanation of your side of things.
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I think the crowd who would tun this have departed the board. Nice capitalisation of Common.
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Tunslut.
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The exemptions in the EA 2010 allowing single sex spaces in certain circumstances are there for a reason. Some healthcare settings are a perfect example. In limited circumstances single sex spaces should be maintained notwithstanding the fact that some workers or patients have a gender identity. In most cases this won’t be the case, and I support thirds spaces if it is viable to balance the rights and interests of anyone involved, but if these are not possible and there is a clash between a woman’s reasonable expectation of a single sex space or same-sex care and hurting the feelings of someone with a gender identity, the woman’s reasonable expectation comes first. This balance calculation is the same as any other reality (sex) versus any other religious belief (as gender identity is).
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tb:dr
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to answer the OP, yes. Although transwomen are presumably not being "excluded" from hospital or treatment, just from being in female wards.
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To be fair to Parsnip, they said trans women were being excluded from women's NHS wards.
This is more accurate than much media reporting saying trans women (and it is always men who think they are women) being excluded from treatment, sports, etc... rather than being perfectly welcome to treatment or to participate in sports in their actual sex category, rather than based on their religious belief that they have a gender identity and this should dictate how the world is organised.
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exactly, pinkers.
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It also fails to recognise the fact that a lot of surgical wards are now mixed sex anyway
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yeah, there are not really any such things as "men's wards" and "women's wards". there will be different bays for men and women on the same ward.
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yeah basically everyone agrees with the premise, it’s just that the premise has practical meaning. It’s a dog whistle for Colin from Portsmouth to get outraged at something else that isn’t happening.
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* has no practical meaning
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Hospital seems the most inappropriate place for culture wars to take place.
We shouldn’t pander the tiny minority who wish to make women feel uncomfortable when they are at their most vulnerable.
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Having recently spent some time in hospital, I know I didn't care who was in the bed next to mine as I was so sick I just wanted to die.. Actually, I think the guy next to me did die.. but, I had all the privacy I wanted and it was respected. This is a non issue.
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Are we really at the stage where bigots like Marshall genuinely think that trans people deliberately get ill because they ‘wish to make women feel uncomfortable when they are at their most vulnerable’?
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What is a woman?
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The lack of any segregation by sex in NHS spaces will come as a surprise to NHS England, who commissioned a whole study on how to achieve the Government's aim of enhancing privacy and dignity by eliminating mixed-sex accomodation in 95% of Trusts.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Enhancing_privacy…
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Your experience was your experience, Eddie. Doesn't mean it's a non-issue for everyone. Women have been raped and sexually assaulted in hospital.
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all I can do is draw from my own experience, "You With The Face". i have never been in a "woman's ward". i have however seen segregation by sex on the same ward, like i just said.
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Aren't the bays on the wards single sex, though?
I assume eddie is a man.
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As in, a single sex space where cocks won't be in one's eyeline
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in fact that seems to be acknowledged in the document you have helpfully provided
and in the "audit standards"
my emphasis
HTH
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Although on reflection i assume toilets are mixed sex in such circs
Grim
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this one’s a marginal case tbh
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Yes they are, like I said. Face was too busy trying to well ackshyually that he forgot to read the post.
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Not only have they been raped and sexually assaulted in hospital, but on at least one occasion, a Trust denied that a rape could have occurred because there were no men on the ward at the time, but in fact there was a man, he just said he was a woman.
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Typical Tom Linorder. He hates women.
No surprise then that he supports Man City.
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Heh
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Funnily enough urology wards tend to be single sex as most of the occupants have prostate problems.
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Hi Marshall. I agree with the premise in the OP though.
i also object to your kind accusing trans people of faking illnesses in order to harm women, that doesn’t mean I hate women don’t be stupid.
I strongly suspect you do, though.
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https://www.reading.ac.uk/news/2023/Research-News/6500-hospital-sexual-…
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As if men would take advantage of women on hospital wards NEVER
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There will come a point when it stops being fashionable to pretend to believe that penis havers who say they're women are meaningfully different from penis havers who don't do that shiz. I hope everyone currently in on the fad is secretly mortified when that happens.
Obviously too much to hope that they'll concede the shame openly.
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Madchester throwback Linorder absolutely bodied here
incel confirmed
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Tom, stuff that you write on here makes it clear that you absolutely hate women, at the expense of weird blokes who think they are.
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not as mortified as the people who - as children - were led to believe, not that Father Christmas was real, but that drugs and surgery could magically transform them into the opposite sex.
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There is little dignity for patients in hospital so a minimum of single sex bays and bathroom facilities is essential.
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It's really consternating how Americans have convinced the world to make the troubles of blokes with identity disorders the centre of feminism. I guess whatever I hope to die before getting to the hospital stage
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Rhamnousia03 Oct 23 19:28
Reply| Report
As if men would take advantage of women on hospital wards NEVER
I think the late and great Sir James Savile possibly missed a trick here...
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I still don't get this. As pointed out above, one group have a mental condition/belief that says "I am you", the other are. The reason there is no controversy over "trans men" is men can't really GAF as they are the ones that have perpetrated misogyny for millenia. "Trans women" and their advocates look to wipe that out in one click of the fingers. Ultimately if it's a game of numbers then I am for the 50% of people that have been victims of discrimination for centuries rather than some noisy 1% that want to max out on "rights" cheered on by lots of men with zero concept of their privilege.
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Yeah obvs there are more important things in life but if you are intrigued by this latest fashion for magical thinking (and recognise it’s importance beyond those directly harmed) then this is a fascinating podcast - extract below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHuAnVxh5rI
US focused (but UK born podcaster) - the actuality behind the trans high priests’ manipulated trans teen suicide risk proclamations is very interesting. As is the observation that there doesn’t appear to have been an epidemic of trans teen suicides prior to a tiny minority of the medical profession having revealed to them the true and urgent requirement for “trans affirmative healthcare” for children. I expect there’s a simple explanation which I’ve missed.
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not even warren the evangelist?
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warren - in the interests of trying to better understand the “other side” can I persuade you to listen to the podcast referred to above and let me know what you think? please suggest something for me to listen to which you consider to be a good explanation of your side of things.
Join the discussion