He’s right though. Trains can’t get up anything steeper than a 1 in 37 and one train breaking down buggers up everything both ways. Buses are slow and have to stop. There are tens of thousands of villages for which it is not economical to run a bus service. And going to anything in antisocial hours is not viable for mass transit.
Public transport is the answer for some specific questions but not for greening.
He really is though isn't he? I mean the reference to 'free people' is emotive b*ll*cks but we are absolutely nowhere near a public transport system that is really fit for purpose (i.e. comparable in convenience to car ownership) outside of densely populated urban settings anywhere in the world.
In my travels in Turkey and Syria in the 2000s shared taxis provided a pretty good service in areas of relatively low population density. On occasion, interesting reshuffling of passengers in order to maintain segregation of men and women. Good chat / craic with fellow passengers. That was in the pre-smartphone era. Now with smartphones I would have thought that it's possible to construct apps that people can post where they are looking to go and that can organise for a shared taxi to get them there. Of course, in Turkey and Syria these were all privately run arrangements so the drivers were working as entrepreneurs. It's not going to work if council/state run because there's little incentivisation.
I would have thought that it's possible to construct apps that people can post where they are looking to go and that can organise for a shared taxi to get them there.
The ultimate goal of driverless cars is for people to subscribe rather than own. The system would become self-aware enough to know areas of high need and have the cars nearby and ready. Similar to robotic warehouse where the high-number orders are shuffled nearer the packers.
He really is though isn't he? I mean the reference to 'free people' is emotive b*ll*cks but we are absolutely nowhere near a public transport system that is really fit for purpose (i.e. comparable in convenience to car ownership) outside of densely populated urban settings anywhere in the world.
Is the ‘we’ here the UK or your home in an oil producing sandpit?
"We" is the human race (hence the reference to anywhere in the world).
Of course there will be rural shared taxi/mini bus services in areas where car ownership is very low that might make it possible to get around rural areas such that you can get from one village to another say 30 miles away within an average of say 3 or 4 hours. That is very different to driving there in well under an hour though.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that buses, trains and bikes will be adequate for everyone, particularly in rural areas for journeys between about 10 miles and 50 miles
electric cars are going to be pretty useful for the foreseeable
but who in their right minds wouldn't rather get a train if they could rather than drive
I once drove from London to Edinburgh for example
hellish journey
the train, on the other hand, is (or at least can be) great
what Heff said. Cars aren't going away and they retain a convenience and comfort aspect other forms of transport lack.
however, there is a section of the right that views the slightest suggestion that other modes of transport need to be considered too as WAR ON THE MOTORIST. It's reductive childish nonsense, and also depressing that a supposedly intelligent and moderate Prime Minister has picked schemes designed to stop residential areas being rat runs (which has got a lot worse since more drivers started using Waze and other navigation apps) as the hill on which he has chosen to die.
Is the average Brit really as much of a paranoid petrolhead as the DM thinks?
Frosty would have an aneurysm if he went to Luxembourg and saw the very efficient and FREE public transport.
the Dutch model of kids being able to cycle to school / clubs / to see their friends by themselves must be hard for him. Can't Dutch parents appreciate the FREEDOM to have to drive their kids everywhere??!
My trAIN sErviCE iSnt GReaT SO pUBLiC TrAnsport IS nOT VIabLE
My former commute was 15 minutes by car and 45 minutes by public transport.
The one before that was 45 mins and 2 hours.
The one before that was 10 mins and walking the 5 miles was quicker than the bus.
But of course the original comment is not "public transport is not viable" but "will *never* be good enough for a free people to move around on." Which is why private transport has been the main way of getting around any distance since the domestication of the horse. Private transport can get you from door to door in a way public transport never can.
This is such a trite point it should not need mansplaining, but apparently virtue-signalling requires the denial of the obvious.
Frosty would have an aneurysm if he went to Luxembourg and saw the very efficient and FREE public transport.
Are you taking the piss? Two hours to travel the 30 miles from Luxembourg City to Clervaux. Another day, so many trains were off that the bus replacement service needed a bus replacement service. The absolute worst public transport I have had the misfortune to endure. That and Belgium.
Dealing with people in lux, the transport is great in lux city and shit everywhere else. Sound familiar? Frost is of course right, public transport will never get you ‘the last mile’
What you have to remember is Lord Frost is a massive chubster khunt that prob drives to the Nisa at the end of his road to pick up his copy of Massive Khunts Weekly.
88.6% of the time somebody saying they need their car is just a lazy aunt that has no concept of the unpriced externalities involved in them driving Tarquin and Tabitha to school because it simply isn't safe #pancakedchildren. If they are happy to pay for them - crack on - as long as the public goods that come with public transport are subsidised by what they cough up.
The only reason he gets away with spouting shite like this is he got away with Brexit. Show him he’s unacceptable. Kick his head in and parade it on a spike. Then the message might sink in that he’s wrong. Else, he’s Scott free.
Thankfully, you can take the train to Clervaux, an that's only 58 minutes.
Not if the fooking thing is cancelled. Plus google maps is telling me right now it's actually 1 hr 58 by train from the airport.
And at Bourscheid they thought someone had nicked the car because the car park was empty. They literally could not believe anyone would catch the bus there because the service was so shit. If I recall it was one every hour to Upper Bourscheid and one every hour to Lower, and they were half-an-hour walk apart, with the castle in the middle.
GOOD PUBLIC TRANSPORT IS FOR POOR AND/OR UNFREE COUNTRIES LIKE LORD FROST - NOT FOR NOTHING CONSIDERED ONE OF THE REAL THOUGHT LEADERS OF BREXIT - SAYS!
IT’S SO OBVIOUS!
AND THAT IS WHY - LIKE REAL THINKER LORD FROST - WE SHOULD POOH POOH ANYONE WHO THINKS WE SHOULD IMPROVE PUBLIC TRANSPORT!!
Lol@ Risky bent double with a couple of tins of beans. Kids these days come with legs, and I don't think anyone is suggesting taking away disabled people's cars. Also amazingly some disabled people, including my son, manage to take public transport as they aren't offshore wet blankets hoping some lazy able bodied twot will use them as a front for their own wishes.
Not eg with shopping, young kids, if you’re disabled etc. fooking communists
BEING THE FATHER OF AN IMAGINARY LITTLE BOY, RISKY KNOWS FROM EXPERIENCE - REAL IMAGINED EXPERIENCE - THAT FAMILIES WITH YOUNG CHILDREN DECRY INVESTING IN PUBLIC TRANSPORT
I’d prefer to take the train from London to Edinburgh than drive, sure. But there’s no way I’d take my kids to school down the road by train, even if it were an option.
In Britain we have relatively densely populated "countryside" though especially in the southeast
The reason people use cars to go everywhere is because with the exception of London all the infrastructure has been designed around the car .
Roads built everywhere, railway lines closed down , public transport generally not invested in --- more and more people buy cars so more bus routes etc die out because not enough users --- it becomes even more vital for everyone to have and use a car.
Endless circle .
Would require a fundamental rethink of the way our transport network is set up to get around this mentality now
Anyway, we will never completely eliminate private transport and as far as I know that is not suggested as a goal by anyone so not sure what Frost is on about.
We should though encourage short journeys by bike/e-bike; middle journeys by bus/light rail and longer journeys by train. People routinely make very short journeys by car and much of the time it’s sheer laziness
We should have 15 minute cities and abolish cars for anything other than journeys over about 4 hours, families, disabled people and also for looking stylish.
I’m sorry your son inherited his father’s obvious mental disabilities bananaman
Prob not as much sympathy as he has for the mental plight of a middle aged child-inventing homophobe who struggles to understand basic phrases like "highest run chase", and creates multiple internet personas to try and suppress those who point out his prejudice and stupidity.
Not eg with shopping, young kids, if you’re disabled etc.
This is a load of shit of course.
Shopping can be put into bags or a trolley, or pannier racks. Children are allowed on buses and trains, and can ride bikes, the idea that a person with a disability is going to be better able to drive a var than get on a bus or train, or ride an adaptive bike or trike seems to assume that disability= legs don't work and you're in a wheelchair.
This arse-brained whataboutism is right up there with the stupidity of "well I live in Lower Horsebottom which is 5 miles from the nearest Tesco and had snow in 2013 so actually I need a Range Rover because the only other alternative would be a tractor".
Fixing something for the vast majority of people is a start. The figure out what to do for the rest. The way people use cars is utterly unsustainable because they are so fooking big for carrying one person. Bear in mind that the average car journey in the UK is less than 9 miles. I.e. including all of them. That's skewed heavily towards a large number of very short journeys, i.e. less than 3 miles, which is a very easily cycled or even walked distance.
Separately, equating cars with freedom is utterly bizarre. As a car owner you're bound by road tiles, you pay more tax, you are only able to drive on roads, you subject yourself to surveillance and for most people you tie yourself into a long term debt.
And yet, after all this ranting, I do have a car and I do drive it (albeit rarely more than 2000 miles a year) because sometimes the infrastructure and lack of alternatives forces me to, and that makes me mad.
No, trains, buses , trams, trolleybuses, cable cars (in the right place), minibuses, bikeshare, scooters cargobikes etc are all great and welcome. Good idea on barges though, I suspect canals are being underused.
As for cars, we're not going to get rid of them and arguably don't need to. but we can definitely eliminate them for a lot of journeys and it would make life more pleasant for everyone. I don't understand why this is so hard for people to get on board with.
Save money, increase fitness (for some options), reduce pollution, reduce congestion, reduce road maintenance, reduce deaths from car accidents.
Alan has it. But, and, you can’t just tell people they can’t have cars anymore - I know you’re not saying this - English cities, London especially, are sprawling connections of villages. Low rise mostly. They need much much better supermarkets and services generally within walking distance. Not being told the local shitty 7-11 is good enough. Or that they’re rich enough, time and cashwise, to queue up for organic cotton caught cod ffs. And doctors. And dentists. Then the 15 minute cities thing makes sense. Most car journeys in London are unnecessary, the stats are unanswerable.
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WELL SAID!!
IT’S ABOUT TIME SOMEONE TOOK A STAND AGAINST IMPROVING PUBLIC TRANSPORT!!
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He’s such a c unt
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remember when we put this guy in charge of negotiating our exit from the eu?
good times
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We should definitely be listening to what Frosty has to say about things for sure.
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I SUSPECT HE HAS VISITED THE NETHERLANDS AND BEEN HORRIFIED BY THE POVERTY
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He’s right though. Trains can’t get up anything steeper than a 1 in 37 and one train breaking down buggers up everything both ways. Buses are slow and have to stop. There are tens of thousands of villages for which it is not economical to run a bus service. And going to anything in antisocial hours is not viable for mass transit.
Public transport is the answer for some specific questions but not for greening.
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No he really isn't.
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possibly, but what do we think frosty's opinion on electric cars is?
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He really is though isn't he? I mean the reference to 'free people' is emotive b*ll*cks but we are absolutely nowhere near a public transport system that is really fit for purpose (i.e. comparable in convenience to car ownership) outside of densely populated urban settings anywhere in the world.
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Yes, the same freedom that he and his fellow Brexit cultists inflicted upon us...
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He really is. Try getting from a show in London to Birmingham the same night.
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In my travels in Turkey and Syria in the 2000s shared taxis provided a pretty good service in areas of relatively low population density. On occasion, interesting reshuffling of passengers in order to maintain segregation of men and women. Good chat / craic with fellow passengers. That was in the pre-smartphone era. Now with smartphones I would have thought that it's possible to construct apps that people can post where they are looking to go and that can organise for a shared taxi to get them there. Of course, in Turkey and Syria these were all privately run arrangements so the drivers were working as entrepreneurs. It's not going to work if council/state run because there's little incentivisation.
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The ultimate goal of driverless cars is for people to subscribe rather than own. The system would become self-aware enough to know areas of high need and have the cars nearby and ready. Similar to robotic warehouse where the high-number orders are shuffled nearer the packers.
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shared taxis are a form of public transport
hth
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YOU SEE!
THIS IS WHY WE SHOULDN’T IMPROVE PUBLIC TRANSPORT JUST LIKE LORD FROST - ONE OF THE BIG BRAINS OF BREXIT - RECOMMENDS!!
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What about people who can drive and have a car but would like not to have to drive wherever possible?
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AS LORD FROST - A REAL THINKER - SAYS, REDUCING PEOPLE’S DEPENDENCY ON CARS BY IMPROVING PUBLIC TRANSPORT AND CYCLING IS A BAD THING
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Is the ‘we’ here the UK or your home in an oil producing sandpit?
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I am not driving a car. I am travelling in my conveyance for I am a sovereign citizen...
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New variant of iTs ColD OUTsiDE i thOuGht THEre wAs SUPPoSED tO bE global WarMING
has been unleashed
My trAIN sErviCE iSnt GReaT SO pUBLiC TrAnsport IS nOT VIabLE
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"We" is the human race (hence the reference to anywhere in the world).
Of course there will be rural shared taxi/mini bus services in areas where car ownership is very low that might make it possible to get around rural areas such that you can get from one village to another say 30 miles away within an average of say 3 or 4 hours. That is very different to driving there in well under an hour though.
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ChuffyChufnell01 Aug 23 13:54
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What about people who can drive and have a car but would like not to have to drive wherever possible?
impossible. anyone who drives is by definition a MOTORIST and believes in freedom for THE MOTORIST
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there will still be personal cars in ten centuries’ time for the very good reasons stated above
the task is to make cars more sustainable
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slight conflict in those two statements read literally but ugetme
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I don't think anyone is suggesting that buses, trains and bikes will be adequate for everyone, particularly in rural areas for journeys between about 10 miles and 50 miles
electric cars are going to be pretty useful for the foreseeable
but who in their right minds wouldn't rather get a train if they could rather than drive
I once drove from London to Edinburgh for example
hellish journey
the train, on the other hand, is (or at least can be) great
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what Heff said. Cars aren't going away and they retain a convenience and comfort aspect other forms of transport lack.
however, there is a section of the right that views the slightest suggestion that other modes of transport need to be considered too as WAR ON THE MOTORIST. It's reductive childish nonsense, and also depressing that a supposedly intelligent and moderate Prime Minister has picked schemes designed to stop residential areas being rat runs (which has got a lot worse since more drivers started using Waze and other navigation apps) as the hill on which he has chosen to die.
Is the average Brit really as much of a paranoid petrolhead as the DM thinks?
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Frosty would have an aneurysm if he went to Luxembourg and saw the very efficient and FREE public transport.
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A MARK OF REAL POVERTY
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Alberto Cova01 Aug 23 15:19
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Frosty would have an aneurysm if he went to Luxembourg and saw the very efficient and FREE public transport.
the Dutch model of kids being able to cycle to school / clubs / to see their friends by themselves must be hard for him. Can't Dutch parents appreciate the FREEDOM to have to drive their kids everywhere??!
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Luxembourg is a poverty-ridden communist hellhole
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My former commute was 15 minutes by car and 45 minutes by public transport.
The one before that was 45 mins and 2 hours.
The one before that was 10 mins and walking the 5 miles was quicker than the bus.
But of course the original comment is not "public transport is not viable" but "will *never* be good enough for a free people to move around on." Which is why private transport has been the main way of getting around any distance since the domestication of the horse. Private transport can get you from door to door in a way public transport never can.
This is such a trite point it should not need mansplaining, but apparently virtue-signalling requires the denial of the obvious.
Are you taking the piss? Two hours to travel the 30 miles from Luxembourg City to Clervaux. Another day, so many trains were off that the bus replacement service needed a bus replacement service. The absolute worst public transport I have had the misfortune to endure. That and Belgium.
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Dealing with people in lux, the transport is great in lux city and shit everywhere else. Sound familiar? Frost is of course right, public transport will never get you ‘the last mile’
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What you have to remember is Lord Frost is a massive chubster khunt that prob drives to the Nisa at the end of his road to pick up his copy of Massive Khunts Weekly.
88.6% of the time somebody saying they need their car is just a lazy aunt that has no concept of the unpriced externalities involved in them driving Tarquin and Tabitha to school because it simply isn't safe #pancakedchildren. If they are happy to pay for them - crack on - as long as the public goods that come with public transport are subsidised by what they cough up.
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No walking can do that Risky you lazy aunt.
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What a way to announce that no one ever invites him out for drinks
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Not eg with shopping, young kids, if you’re disabled etc. fooking communists
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The only reason he gets away with spouting shite like this is he got away with Brexit. Show him he’s unacceptable. Kick his head in and parade it on a spike. Then the message might sink in that he’s wrong. Else, he’s Scott free.
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Two hours to travel the 30 miles from Luxembourg City to Clervaux.
I agree that traffic in Luxembourg can be a nightmare. Thankfully, you can take the train to Clervaux, an that's only 58 minutes.
Oh, and it's 40 miles.
But in the context of Brexity gammons like Lord Frost, par for the course.
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Not if the fooking thing is cancelled. Plus google maps is telling me right now it's actually 1 hr 58 by train from the airport.
And at Bourscheid they thought someone had nicked the car because the car park was empty. They literally could not believe anyone would catch the bus there because the service was so shit. If I recall it was one every hour to Upper Bourscheid and one every hour to Lower, and they were half-an-hour walk apart, with the castle in the middle.
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In around 5 years we will have autonomous vehicles for hire which will negate the need for both public transport and private cars
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and we are back to
My trAIN sErviCE iSnt GReaT SO pUBLiC TrAnsport IS nOT VIabLE
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Yes it is inherent.
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crap
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This is the Yank philosophy. Only poor people travel by 'bus or train because... muh freedom!
They seem to love sharing their space on 'planes though.
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GOOD PUBLIC TRANSPORT IS FOR POOR AND/OR UNFREE COUNTRIES LIKE LORD FROST - NOT FOR NOTHING CONSIDERED ONE OF THE REAL THOUGHT LEADERS OF BREXIT - SAYS!
IT’S SO OBVIOUS!
AND THAT IS WHY - LIKE REAL THINKER LORD FROST - WE SHOULD POOH POOH ANYONE WHO THINKS WE SHOULD IMPROVE PUBLIC TRANSPORT!!
BECAUSE THEY CLEARLY HATE FREEDOM!
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Lol@ Risky bent double with a couple of tins of beans. Kids these days come with legs, and I don't think anyone is suggesting taking away disabled people's cars. Also amazingly some disabled people, including my son, manage to take public transport as they aren't offshore wet blankets hoping some lazy able bodied twot will use them as a front for their own wishes.
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Ooof another absolute savaging for poor risky.
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BEING THE FATHER OF AN IMAGINARY LITTLE BOY, RISKY KNOWS FROM EXPERIENCE - REAL IMAGINED EXPERIENCE - THAT FAMILIES WITH YOUNG CHILDREN DECRY INVESTING IN PUBLIC TRANSPORT
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I’d prefer to take the train from London to Edinburgh than drive, sure. But there’s no way I’d take my kids to school down the road by train, even if it were an option.
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All hail the performative anti-car Rofers.
Yet we all know that they are 2-car families, with at least one big 4x4, despite 90% of them living in urban North and West London.
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🔔🔚
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In Britain we have relatively densely populated "countryside" though especially in the southeast
The reason people use cars to go everywhere is because with the exception of London all the infrastructure has been designed around the car .
Roads built everywhere, railway lines closed down , public transport generally not invested in --- more and more people buy cars so more bus routes etc die out because not enough users --- it becomes even more vital for everyone to have and use a car.
Endless circle .
Would require a fundamental rethink of the way our transport network is set up to get around this mentality now
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“The reason people use cars to go everywhere is because with the exception of London all the infrastructure has been designed around the car “
it’s the same literally everywhere else
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ban
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Anyway, we will never completely eliminate private transport and as far as I know that is not suggested as a goal by anyone so not sure what Frost is on about.
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Banana man threw the first stone chimp
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We should though encourage short journeys by bike/e-bike; middle journeys by bus/light rail and longer journeys by train. People routinely make very short journeys by car and much of the time it’s sheer laziness
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He bossed you so your reply was to make a distasteful post about his son. Log off.
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Have you got a son I can insult instead?
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We should have 15 minute cities and abolish cars for anything other than journeys over about 4 hours, families, disabled people and also for looking stylish.
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Don’t be weird.
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feelingbrill01 Aug 23 18:31
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I’m sorry your son inherited his father’s obvious mental disabilities bananaman
Prob not as much sympathy as he has for the mental plight of a middle aged child-inventing homophobe who struggles to understand basic phrases like "highest run chase", and creates multiple internet personas to try and suppress those who point out his prejudice and stupidity.
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Risky don't log off. You need to stay put while bananaman murders you in cold blood over and over.
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Oh dear banana, weak sauce.
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The other day risky had a few posts deleted due to use of offensive ableist terms
He's not getting any better
Don't be like risky, kids (imaginary or otherwise)
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🤣😁😂
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Superb work by Brexit at 18:11! Real imagined experience lol.
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Clive, I’ve noticed a disturbing trend of you liking posts critical of me. Stop it.
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Heh sorry Risky. It's only ones that I find amusing!
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This is a load of shit of course.
Shopping can be put into bags or a trolley, or pannier racks. Children are allowed on buses and trains, and can ride bikes, the idea that a person with a disability is going to be better able to drive a var than get on a bus or train, or ride an adaptive bike or trike seems to assume that disability= legs don't work and you're in a wheelchair.
This arse-brained whataboutism is right up there with the stupidity of "well I live in Lower Horsebottom which is 5 miles from the nearest Tesco and had snow in 2013 so actually I need a Range Rover because the only other alternative would be a tractor".
Fixing something for the vast majority of people is a start. The figure out what to do for the rest. The way people use cars is utterly unsustainable because they are so fooking big for carrying one person. Bear in mind that the average car journey in the UK is less than 9 miles. I.e. including all of them. That's skewed heavily towards a large number of very short journeys, i.e. less than 3 miles, which is a very easily cycled or even walked distance.
Separately, equating cars with freedom is utterly bizarre. As a car owner you're bound by road tiles, you pay more tax, you are only able to drive on roads, you subject yourself to surveillance and for most people you tie yourself into a long term debt.
And yet, after all this ranting, I do have a car and I do drive it (albeit rarely more than 2000 miles a year) because sometimes the infrastructure and lack of alternatives forces me to, and that makes me mad.
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i mean, alan, come on: don’t expect rightwhingers 2 b logical, rational and coherent in defending the tenets of their dogma
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Alan wants to bring back Hansom Cabs.
And let’s be done with nasty railways and trains, and bring horse-drawn canal barges back into mainstream use.
Not so much NetZero as YearZero.
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No, trains, buses , trams, trolleybuses, cable cars (in the right place), minibuses, bikeshare, scooters cargobikes etc are all great and welcome. Good idea on barges though, I suspect canals are being underused.
As for cars, we're not going to get rid of them and arguably don't need to. but we can definitely eliminate them for a lot of journeys and it would make life more pleasant for everyone. I don't understand why this is so hard for people to get on board with.
Save money, increase fitness (for some options), reduce pollution, reduce congestion, reduce road maintenance, reduce deaths from car accidents.
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feelingbrill01 Aug 23 18:31
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I’m sorry your son inherited his father’s obvious mental disabilities bananaman
------------
Why is the odious turd "risky" still being allowed to post here?
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Alan has it. But, and, you can’t just tell people they can’t have cars anymore - I know you’re not saying this - English cities, London especially, are sprawling connections of villages. Low rise mostly. They need much much better supermarkets and services generally within walking distance. Not being told the local shitty 7-11 is good enough. Or that they’re rich enough, time and cashwise, to queue up for organic cotton caught cod ffs. And doctors. And dentists. Then the 15 minute cities thing makes sense. Most car journeys in London are unnecessary, the stats are unanswerable.
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Alan’s ‘I don’t need a car so no one should be allowed to have one’ logic typical of the authoritarian left
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Which is not what he said.
But you know that
At least the breitbart guy everyone thinks you are had some wits about him. Aside of his sub Gorka schtick
But you Horace just read like a child
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Your lies about me are what should be dealt with davos
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What lies, risky?
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All of them davos
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Which ones Ricky?
Remember the screenshots. There is always screenshots.
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good idea
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