the only political opinions which r so extremist as 2 diverge from my own (in a way that i would find it difficult 2 like some1 on a personal level) r the sorts of opinions almost exclusively held by embittered friendless incels. so inherently unlikely 4 me 2 have been close 2 them in the 1st place
My mother was an avid supporter of Pauline Hanson and the One Nation Party.
Think Nigel Farage and UKIP.. but with a shrill, ginger headed harpy as the head and the racism front and centre as policy.
My mother stopped talking to me for over a year because I totally agreed with her that Pauline Hanson hadn’t committed electoral fraud.. but only on the basis that she was too stupid to do it.
Turns out the courts didn’t agree with me either and she got three years in prison.
Yes - my ex’s “grudging” (i.e. wholehearted and unquestioning) support for Trump (despite being of a minority for whom Trump has never professed anything other than utter contempt) was the final nail in the coffin of a relationship that had stuttered on for more years than I care to admit.
After a couple of months where, at some point in our time together, he would pivot to the “stolen” election (this was at the time that the Arizona recounts and court cases were going on), and his insistence that some of Trump’s most egregious quotes were mainstream media lies - even as I would show him footage of Trump saying exactly the thing that people said he had said, I had had enough.
Apparently, I could cope with his being broke, jobless, and without much ambition to change either of those things, but his deciding that Trump was his spirit animal was more than my mind could handle.
Aside from the first 9 months of our relationship, he didn't have 2 pennies to rub together - I think, in our entire relationship, he can't have spent more than 500 quid on me (that includes birthdays and Christmas), but despite the fact that he kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, it never really bothered me, and I never lost respect for him.
But listening to him twot on about how Trump was some sort of genius, and arguing with him that the fact that something Trump said sounded really fooking dumb could NOT be "just my interpretation" if I was literally repeating what the orange moron said, was too much to handle, and all I could think was "damn, you're actually a fool, aren't you, I think we're done here."
No. People have differing political views but tend to agree on things when it affects them directly. Business and sport is more interesting. So is music. Don't waste time on politics.
having had a relationship get in trouble cos of money my takeaway was that it was more about trust than money with lovers and partnerships.
The Trump thing is amazingly challenging cos on one level it feels like a National prank that you just not in on. How can you trust anyone that can’t see the joke/lie at the heart of it. That said, my oldest friend (since 4) still clings to Brexit and the Tory Party. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so ridiculous
I essentially gave up and shuttered “politics” with him after I asked him back in 2016 if he was ok with Irish reunification and the loss of NI from Uk as a foreseeable consequence of Brexit (and he said yes :( he was).
For other friends tell them to eff off was (on reflection) tragically easy but truth is I just can’t do that for this last “remaining” :) brexiteer in my life
he’s my other brother so like all other relatives that say unpalatable shoite (and yes that includes racist Uncles and Aunties) I just disagree and move the subject on hoping that one day they will “get it”
I do not broach politics with certain Brexity members of my family. Certain individuals also had a panic about the idea of Scottish independence saying about unimaginable change, which was so ironic given they’d delivered unimaginable change already.
Well, same. We just avoid the topic entirely. That said, I try and limit having any conversations at all with my brother because he’s just a gargantuan ocean going bellend anyway.
‘his insistence that some of Trump’s most egregious quotes were mainstream media lies - even as I would show him footage of Trump saying exactly the thing that people said he had said‘
similar experience with trumpists - manna for the bitter and disenfranchised sadly. like dealing with alcoholics. v sad
one out of a number of “gender critical” friends who has come out with some truly horrifying views about trans people and more annoyingly has gone peak sealion. think rumpole on crack. makes it impossible to have a normal conversation about most things not just trans rights and this is just shoe horned into everything
having said that I remain on fairly good terms of number of people of a i) fairly right-wing persuasion, but in the thatcher mould and ii) left wing persuasion like Kinnock
"one out of a number of “gender critical” friends who has come out with some truly horrifying views about trans people and more annoyingly has gone peak sealion. think rumpole on crack. makes it impossible to have a normal conversation about most things not just trans rights and this is just shoe horned into everything"
Friends- I have 104 friends. Split probably 98% socially liberal centre lefty chinners, 2% previously socially liberal centre lefty chinners gulled by the the right wing media’s ‘culture wars’. Ofc there is no rift though.
I remain open to hearing arguments, but the extreme right and left now just rely on emotions. The problem with populist approaches to anything is that they rely on not being met with like. Trans issues are an obvious example. Meet them with ridicule and see how they like it. Oh, how interesting, you’re scared of panto.
Parents are quite Brexity so I have pretty much cut contact.
Do enough just enough for the kids to see them occasionally and hopefully not get written out of the will, but we have nothing in common and I would not spend any time with them were they not family.
I FIND IT VERY DIFFICULT TO CONTINUE TO HAVE ANY RESPECT FOR REMOANERS WHO - DESPITE EVERYTHING WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS - STILL CLING ON TO THEIR DELUDED BITTER BELIEF THAT BREXIT WAS A MISTAKE AND THIS GREAT NATION WOULD BE SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER OFF IF WE HAD NOT BRAVELY LIBERATED OURSELVES FROM THE JACKBOOT OF THE EUSSR
IT IS VERY SAD: I REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT MORE IT WOULD TAKE FOR THEM TO ADMIT THEY WERE WRONG
Apparently, I could cope with his being broke, jobless, and without much ambition to change either of those things, but his deciding that Trump was his spirit animal was more than my mind could handle.
“one out of a number of “gender critical” friends who has come out with some truly horrifying views about trans people and more annoyingly has gone peak sealion. think rumpole on crack. makes it impossible to have a normal conversation about most things not just trans rights and this is just shoe horned into everything"
The gender critical stuff has never been a wedge in the same way as LD as if we're being honest it doesn't really affect our own day to day lives.
I do always say to my by the book "whatever the Guardian says must be right" crew though, imagine if you were a female who'd dedicated their life to some sport only to see some (essentially) bloke come in and wrestle it all away... or until a female you care about gets stuck in jail with an (essentially) male rapist.
Usually they get a bit sheepish and recite some stat about how that's a fringe issue blown up by the media. Which at broad scale it is ofc, but I thought the left were meant to be empathetic about people on the fringes? Only the approved correct people it seems...
I think I offended some people by expressing my view that the covid response was completely disproportionate and unjustifiable, but no lost relationships or lasting damage. Still, it shocked me how authoritarian people can be.
I’m no longer friends with the one formerly close person who voted for Brexit, but there were a lot of additional reasons for that.
I have no idea of the political views of most of my friends as we just don't ever discuss it. Have certainly never lost any friends over politics but can live without a friend who ghosted me over something to do with a lady but went mad full on FBPE after Brexit which seemed to generally be part of some kind of mid-life breakdown.
My father got himself into the internet during Covid and has completely lost his mind.
I can no longer have a conversation with him that doesn't result in him twisting into a bizarre conspiracy theory. He no longer asks about the welfare of the grandchildren (or me) unless it is under the auspice of needing to protect them from the coming doomsday.
For anyone that hasn't had the joy of the WEF world starvation plan: you are in for a treat. Essentially, the WEF controls the world's elite and media in a cunning plan to take over the entire world. It involves made up climate change; Covid wasn't real; mass starvation and population control; the removal of private ownership; the only food left will be insects; migrants and trans people are somehow to blame; and normally there is a very rich Jewish chap that is also twirling his tash behind the scenes. Interestingly Musk, Putin and Trump are the good guys.
Just like Cruella above - any attempt to politely point out the numerous illogical or paradoxical thoughts are met with snide derision and comments about how brain washed I am because I attended university and "trust" scientists and experts.
It is fascinating to behold. Prior to 2016 he was a staunch Labour supporter from working class that hated Thatcher and all that she stood for. I can appreciate how easily someone online can be essentially radicalised into a completely different way of thinking. It is quite scary.
He now is withdrawn from anyone that doesn't see the "truth" and refuses to discuss anything other than conjecture about WEF. I am watching him isolate further and further and don't know what to do about it.
He has actually become so nasty and blinkered that I find myself often hoping he will get covid and die before he gives all of his money away to some alt right nutter on the internet.
Oh yes, within my very large family I have brexiteers and xenophobics and varying levels of intellectually challenged folk. They are family though so have to tolerate and steer clear of politics and any conversation of substance.
I had a good friend I trained with who turned out to be a total bigot but only let her views be unleashed in all their glory when she thought we were good enough friends for her to do so. I ghosted her about two years ago. Daft muppet.
Ageing in-laws for me. When I joined the family, Mrs Quips advised me that they had some "traditional" views on certain things but, to be fair to them, they kept a respectful lid on it - at least when I was around.
Until Brexit, the cuffs came off and it all came bundling out like manure.
Now it's hard to hold certain conversations without them getting angry, so its just football/grandchildren chat. Anything else is off limits.
My friend started dating someone - they are serious and still together - who has just brainwashed her. She turned up to dinner and told me just generally in conversation that they wouldn't want their child (who is 3) to end up with a Muslim man and wear a hijab. I was literally like WTF... . I told her she couldn't say shit like that, but she didnt seem to understand that it was wrong which is even more worrying. I haven't seen her since. This is after similar views were expressed on gender, covid conspiracy, eastern europeans in the local town in drips and drabs over a period of years. However reflecting on it i actually don't think i was hard enough on her i think being caught off guard and in a restaurant and wish i would have taken it further.
I also cant talk to a lot of my friends about politics - they live in a fantasy land where everything should be free but no one should pay taxes, and none of them work which makes me struggle even more. Everyone in the public sector should be paid like Bankers supposidly and when you try and put some rational argument around it i just get told that i am selfish, when actually i would say my views are pretty reasonable and left too! I don't talk about anything interesting with those people anymore. I have great debate with other groups of friends though even where we disagree normally with a lot of wine.
Why would I care if someone was a Trotskyite or a Fascist or a Liberal, any more than I'd care if they were vegetarian, or Greek Orthodox, or an astrologer?
I’m not sure the hijab is acceptable at all tbh, other than after having fully established the agency of the wearer etc etc. Is society progressed by not being able to see one another’s faces?
Wish, one of our mates got like that during covid and WFH, it was worrying. I know this might not help with your circumstances but just in case it does. He's almost back to normal now he's changed jobs and going into an office again.
Way too much time alone had sent him a bit mad, but I can see him improving every time we meet just by being back in the real world more. He'd become reluctant to even meet but that's getting better too. He's still not who he used to be, but there's hope now.
I have someone in my family who's not really related to me at all but still comes to family events. She and her new husband constantly have a Lib Dem poster in their front garden and when she turned up to Christmas year before last she walked in and her first comment was about Boris. She looked utterly disappointed when I just changed the subject.
I asked him back in 2016 if he was ok with Irish reunification and the loss of NI from Uk as a foreseeable consequence of Brexit (and he said yes :( he was).
I'm pretty sure a good number of Brexiters - and indeed non-Brexiters (now - obviously it wasn't an issue pre-2016) - would be happy being shot of NI, at least in theory.
my ex’s “grudging” (i.e. wholehearted and unquestioning) support for Trump (despite being of a minority for whom Trump has never professed anything other than utter contempt)
If it's any consolation, a good many Latinos supported and still support Trump, and apparently that number increased in 2020 from 2016. There's been some writeups investigating Trump's appeal to Hispanic voters that touch on some interesting areas. I guess it's worth noting that quite a few minorities (Asians in the UK for instance) are instinctively pretty conservative; I've certainly heard comments from non-Muslim Indians that would make Farage blush.
My mother is a Liberal Democrat councillor. One can't have a conversation with her without it turning into a long, poorly argued, rant about "The current administration" - being Green/independent locally and, obviously, the Conservatives nationally. The Welsh administration (being Labour) also gets a look in for being inherently not LD.
She then complains that neither children or grandchildren are particuarly interested in spending time with her.
“wouldn't want their child (who is 3) to end up with a Muslim man and wear a hijab”
This is a perfectly acceptable thing to say
it is but the thought process behind it betrays an odd fixation with Islam specifically and also generalisations.
Not all women who convert to Islam do so because she marry a Muslim man. Also not all Muslim women wear hijabs and you also get many fairly secular Muslims too.
Not all women who convert to Islam do so because she marry a Muslim man.
It's technically not necessary to do so if the woman in question is one of the "Peoples of the Book" ie Christian or Jewish. Men however who wish to marry a muslimah must have converted.
For me it's my dad and to a lesser extent mum. There were some ominous signs there but lockdown has made them much, much worse.
As with lots of other posters on here I think, for me it's the way they have stopped listening and are now unable to debate. Their opinions have both moved fast (to the right) and frozen hard in a pretty short space of time.
It's truly depressing to be a part of. So now it's just grandkids and safe topics. Undoubtedly drives a wedge between us all though.
I wouldn’t be too thrilled if my (non-existent) offspring became a strict observer of any religion. Bit weird to single one out and bang on about it when they are four though. It does suggest a certain obsession.
Oh, Sumo - do fvck off with your stupid sexist assumptions and talking sh1t about stuff you know nothing about.
I wasn’t interested in changing him - unlike you, apparently, I don’t believe that not earning lots of money is a character flaw that needs rectifying. And, actually, i knew that, if he ever did have lots of money, the problem i would have would be to stop him spending it on me.
His lack of money / ambition to earn more only became a problem when it turned him bitter and angry with the world (it was “the world’s” fault that, unlike some of his friends (who had become millionaires on paper, at least, he hadn’t invested in property in West London where he grew up, while prices were dirt cheap and he was earning a good salary). He never could let go of the “lost”opportunity, it consumed him as he watched prices go stratospheric and was constantly totting up what he would have been worth if he’d bought a couple of houses in portobello road for the peanuts they were going for in the 80s. He got angrier and more frustrated, and unfortunately, I was the part of the world that spent time with him, so I was the one who got vented on, because being pissed off at me was easier than getting another job.
I know I shouldn’t bother explaining myself to you or anyone for that matter, i should just ignore your drivel and not rise to your dickish poking, but these sorts of stupid sexist assumptions endure, and they p1ss me right off.
it was “the world’s” fault that, unlike some of his friends (who had become millionaires on paper, at least, he hadn’t invested in property in West London where he grew up, while prices were dirt cheap and he was earning a good salary). He never could let go of the “lost”opportunity, it consumed him as he watched prices go stratospheric and was constantly totting up what he would have been worth if he’d bought a couple of houses in portobello road for the peanuts they were going for in the 80s.
no - it was the fault of successive Tory and Labour governments who drove through a plethora of policies turbocharging house price growth by a factor of 300% over a thirty year period relative to wages (ratio of average earnings to house price went from 1:3 to 1:9).
Well, yes, there is definitely that (and believe me, that factor wasn't overlooked when he went off on one). But, there was also the fact that he chose to live very large and very well while he was earning proper money and not to cut back a little so he could buy (his assessment, not mine, I didn't know him then).
It really took him over, and the constant lengthy "I coulda been a contender" rants became very tiresome, But, I won't deny that I get how difficult it must be to have a daily reminder of what you perceive to have been life changingly bad decisions. Not sure how sanguine I would be if I was in his position...
That's an interesting point about the correlation between long periods of aloneness and increased entrenchment in loony / conspiracy theories...
One of my friends voted for Brexit (the only close friend that I'm aware that did so), and we all sort of came to an unspoken agreement not to ever mention it. But, even so, I am aware that she has become more radicalised when it comes to all those grasping forrins who are only interested in stealing all of our good English pounds, and I definitely think that the fact that she barely leaves the house only makes her worse - whenever we spend time together as a group, she seems to leave feeling somehow lighter and more "normal", but then visibly regresses within a couple of days holed up back in her house with her 3 dogs and feck only knows how many cats.
Unspoken agreement not to talk Brexit/politics with any member of my family to keep the peace.
+1 for having mental parents that constantly talk about their suspicion of the 'mainstream media' yet perfectly happy to accept as gospel what some bloke called Dave said on Facebook.
But, there was also the fact that he chose to live very large and very well while he was earning proper money and not to cut back a little so he could buy (his assessment, not mine, I didn't know him then).
What always astounds me is the willingness of seemingly intelligent people to accept THE most outlandish theories. It's as if the bizarreness of the theories gives them actual life - it's not enough to suggest, e.g. a reluctance to take the vaccine because of any perfectly legitimate worries, they have to spiral off into madness and absurdity - I guess because it makes them feel special?
For example, my PT, a really well educated, knowledgeable man reckoned that the reason that a friend of his was clocked presenting a fake vaccination card at an airport was NOT because that friend had used a lo-fi forgery that looked like it was created by a child, but because - and he said this with a straight face - when his mate went through the scanner at the destination airport, the (miraculously, suddenly and secretly upgraded?) scanner did not detect the microchip that was inserted into all of us vaccinated "sheeple" via the injection.
So, he is more prepared to accept that The Government (funded by The Evil Cabal of Prominent Families Who Really Run Things and Want To Make Us Their Pets) has developed technology sophisticated enough to shrink a tracking device to the point where it can be dissolved into liquid and be fully functional, and has left this tech to be deployed by an army of unsuspecting medical sheeple, than to acknowledge that the fake certificate his buddy knocked out on the work photocopier might have been spotted by even a half asleep immigration official.
With him, in order to preserve our relationship, I decided to just pretend he hadn't said anything at all, and we now have a tacit agreement never to discuss the vaccine, ever.
Of course Jim, noone wants to be friends with their own clones! But, you do kinda need to have similar values, and there are certain opinions that, to me, signal someone with values so different to mine that the gap is probably too wide to overcome (certainly, too wide to stay close).
One example is continuing to support Trump, another is being in favour of the death penalty - I think that either of those things makes someone a fundamentally sh1tty person, and no close relationship can survive that.
Re the OP - my brother is a brexiteer and I love him dearly but I encourage my kids to slyly take the piss whenever possible.
I would tolerate it less in friends though.
Although actually one of my oldest friends is also a bit right wing. I tolerate it in him too, but he is almost family. And thank god be seems to have come to his senses a bit in the last year.
Spurius - the PT / client relationship, of course, I'm not a masochist! (Mind you, maybe I am a bit - it did take me the best part of 10 years to realise that the ex and I should go our separate ways and, as is so often the case, it ended up being the most trivial straw that broke the camel's back).
Actually, my PT is someone I consider a dear friend, but his behaviour re the vaccine has chipped away at a lot of my respect for him... He's "dating" one of my best mates, and she is basically putty in his hands, would do pretty much anything to keep him happy. She is also, for a number of reasons, a proper hypochondriac.
He leaned heavily on both those things to try to persuade her not to take the vaccine - bombarding her relentlessly for months with "news" reports and videos about people who had allegedly developed devastating illnesses immediately after taking the vaccine, interspersed with threats that he wasn't sure he could really think a life with someone who was one of the sheeple, how could he trust her if she would do this to herself or, worse, if he couldn't rely on her NOT to do thing even though she knew how much it "hurt" him.
We talk about pretty much everything, but in the end, I had to ask her to stop telling me stuff because it got to the point that I was finding it difficult to be around him.
It did have one positive effect though, even she came to realise how appalling his behaviour was, and it broke the spell he had over her far more effectively than anything her friends have said over the years. She still cares deeply for him, but something definitely clicked because of it.
Cru - I’m not saying there aren’t views which, if sincerely held, would put an extreme damper on any friendship. That goes without saying. However, I do think that quite significant political differences aren’t a bar to friendship as long as you have a healthy attitude to it. It’s probably what disappoints me most on Rof - when otherwise fun and sensible posters seem to take a position because of a political tribe and accuse anyone who disagrees of being thick, racist, treacherous or some other insult without actually engaging.
On a separate note, I know that my attempted analysis of the report really rankled with Chill. He never countered any of the criticisms I raised but referenced my criticism more than a year later in apparent bitterness on an unrelated thread. Perhaps I did have some effect and it was worth it.
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No, but I have come to accept that aging family members frequently become less palatable in their opinions.
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nope
the only political opinions which r so extremist as 2 diverge from my own (in a way that i would find it difficult 2 like some1 on a personal level) r the sorts of opinions almost exclusively held by embittered friendless incels. so inherently unlikely 4 me 2 have been close 2 them in the 1st place
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Yes.
My mother was an avid supporter of Pauline Hanson and the One Nation Party.
Think Nigel Farage and UKIP.. but with a shrill, ginger headed harpy as the head and the racism front and centre as policy.
My mother stopped talking to me for over a year because I totally agreed with her that Pauline Hanson hadn’t committed electoral fraud.. but only on the basis that she was too stupid to do it.
Turns out the courts didn’t agree with me either and she got three years in prison.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/20/australia.thefarright
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Yes - my ex’s “grudging” (i.e. wholehearted and unquestioning) support for Trump (despite being of a minority for whom Trump has never professed anything other than utter contempt) was the final nail in the coffin of a relationship that had stuttered on for more years than I care to admit.
After a couple of months where, at some point in our time together, he would pivot to the “stolen” election (this was at the time that the Arizona recounts and court cases were going on), and his insistence that some of Trump’s most egregious quotes were mainstream media lies - even as I would show him footage of Trump saying exactly the thing that people said he had said, I had had enough.
Apparently, I could cope with his being broke, jobless, and without much ambition to change either of those things, but his deciding that Trump was his spirit animal was more than my mind could handle.
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Yeah.. that would be a deal breaker for me too Cru.
Any Trumpists can take a very long walk off a short pier
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Scylla, it's interesting...
Aside from the first 9 months of our relationship, he didn't have 2 pennies to rub together - I think, in our entire relationship, he can't have spent more than 500 quid on me (that includes birthdays and Christmas), but despite the fact that he kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, it never really bothered me, and I never lost respect for him.
But listening to him twot on about how Trump was some sort of genius, and arguing with him that the fact that something Trump said sounded really fooking dumb could NOT be "just my interpretation" if I was literally repeating what the orange moron said, was too much to handle, and all I could think was "damn, you're actually a fool, aren't you, I think we're done here."
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No. People have differing political views but tend to agree on things when it affects them directly. Business and sport is more interesting. So is music. Don't waste time on politics.
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Well I guess, in a strange way, you have something to be grateful to Trump for…
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having had a relationship get in trouble cos of money my takeaway was that it was more about trust than money with lovers and partnerships.
The Trump thing is amazingly challenging cos on one level it feels like a National prank that you just not in on. How can you trust anyone that can’t see the joke/lie at the heart of it. That said, my oldest friend (since 4) still clings to Brexit and the Tory Party. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so ridiculous
I essentially gave up and shuttered “politics” with him after I asked him back in 2016 if he was ok with Irish reunification and the loss of NI from Uk as a foreseeable consequence of Brexit (and he said yes :( he was).
For other friends tell them to eff off was (on reflection) tragically easy but truth is I just can’t do that for this last “remaining” :) brexiteer in my life
he’s my other brother so like all other relatives that say unpalatable shoite (and yes that includes racist Uncles and Aunties) I just disagree and move the subject on hoping that one day they will “get it”
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I do not broach politics with certain Brexity members of my family. Certain individuals also had a panic about the idea of Scottish independence saying about unimaginable change, which was so ironic given they’d delivered unimaginable change already.
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The last decade has provided the strongest possible argument for better teaching of history.
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No but thankfully I don't know any brexiteers. Would instantly lose any respect for them of course if they were unrepentant.
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More than half of my friends vote Labour or Lib dem.
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Na I'm mature enough to separate the politics from the person.
That said, I don't know many rabid Tories, racists etc.
But will happily be challenged on a viewpoint in a sensible and respectful manner without it damaging the relationship.
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Exactly what Davros says. There comes a point where it's not politics but delusion. The Trump thing described by Cruella sounds like that to me.
Up to that point, no issue as long as debate is respectful.
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Well, same. We just avoid the topic entirely. That said, I try and limit having any conversations at all with my brother because he’s just a gargantuan ocean going bellend anyway.
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‘his insistence that some of Trump’s most egregious quotes were mainstream media lies - even as I would show him footage of Trump saying exactly the thing that people said he had said‘
sounds like a stable genius
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yes
similar experience with trumpists - manna for the bitter and disenfranchised sadly. like dealing with alcoholics. v sad
one out of a number of “gender critical” friends who has come out with some truly horrifying views about trans people and more annoyingly has gone peak sealion. think rumpole on crack. makes it impossible to have a normal conversation about most things not just trans rights and this is just shoe horned into everything
having said that I remain on fairly good terms of number of people of a i) fairly right-wing persuasion, but in the thatcher mould and ii) left wing persuasion like Kinnock
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I struggle now with anyone thinking Brexit could be a good thing on any level. Ditto unearned privilege of any sort tbh.
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😂🤣🤣🤣 🤣😂🤣 🤣 😂🤣🤣😂 🤣🤣 😂
😂🤣🤣🤣 🤣 😂🤣 🤣 🤣🤣😂🤣 🤣🤣 😂 🤣🤣🤣
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"one out of a number of “gender critical” friends who has come out with some truly horrifying views about trans people and more annoyingly has gone peak sealion. think rumpole on crack. makes it impossible to have a normal conversation about most things not just trans rights and this is just shoe horned into everything"
What do they post on ROF as?
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No. Letting that happen would mean the cyop had been successful
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Relatives- what monkey theorem said.
Friends- I have 104 friends. Split probably 98% socially liberal centre lefty chinners, 2% previously socially liberal centre lefty chinners gulled by the the right wing media’s ‘culture wars’. Ofc there is no rift though.
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I remain open to hearing arguments, but the extreme right and left now just rely on emotions. The problem with populist approaches to anything is that they rely on not being met with like. Trans issues are an obvious example. Meet them with ridicule and see how they like it. Oh, how interesting, you’re scared of panto.
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Parents are quite Brexity so I have pretty much cut contact.
Do enough just enough for the kids to see them occasionally and hopefully not get written out of the will, but we have nothing in common and I would not spend any time with them were they not family.
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I FIND IT VERY DIFFICULT TO CONTINUE TO HAVE ANY RESPECT FOR REMOANERS WHO - DESPITE EVERYTHING WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS - STILL CLING ON TO THEIR DELUDED BITTER BELIEF THAT BREXIT WAS A MISTAKE AND THIS GREAT NATION WOULD BE SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER OFF IF WE HAD NOT BRAVELY LIBERATED OURSELVES FROM THE JACKBOOT OF THE EUSSR
IT IS VERY SAD: I REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT MORE IT WOULD TAKE FOR THEM TO ADMIT THEY WERE WRONG
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cruella de evil16 Mar 23 00:09
Apparently, I could cope with his being broke, jobless, and without much ambition to change either of those things, but his deciding that Trump was his spirit animal was more than my mind could handle.
_____________________________________________________________________
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But women only destroy their brake pads for chad in that meme of course
I got very fed up with a lot of my LD loving leftist Guardian friends and sister during covid but it didn't lead to any permanant rifts
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No.
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I can change him
Go and insult someone else’s intelligence
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“one out of a number of “gender critical” friends who has come out with some truly horrifying views about trans people and more annoyingly has gone peak sealion. think rumpole on crack. makes it impossible to have a normal conversation about most things not just trans rights and this is just shoe horned into everything"
What do they post on ROF as?
heh at Davos
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The gender critical stuff has never been a wedge in the same way as LD as if we're being honest it doesn't really affect our own day to day lives.
I do always say to my by the book "whatever the Guardian says must be right" crew though, imagine if you were a female who'd dedicated their life to some sport only to see some (essentially) bloke come in and wrestle it all away... or until a female you care about gets stuck in jail with an (essentially) male rapist.
Usually they get a bit sheepish and recite some stat about how that's a fringe issue blown up by the media. Which at broad scale it is ofc, but I thought the left were meant to be empathetic about people on the fringes? Only the approved correct people it seems...
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I always appreciate it when people let you know their politics via eg Facebook so that you know to steer clear of certain topics
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I’m also happy to lie about what I think because basically I think it’s mostly inconsequential.
’oh you didn’t like lockdown? Me neither’
(I actually had a fandabidozy lockdown but who cares?)
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I think I offended some people by expressing my view that the covid response was completely disproportionate and unjustifiable, but no lost relationships or lasting damage. Still, it shocked me how authoritarian people can be.
I’m no longer friends with the one formerly close person who voted for Brexit, but there were a lot of additional reasons for that.
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Let me guess, they are a complete d1ck head?
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I have no idea of the political views of most of my friends as we just don't ever discuss it. Have certainly never lost any friends over politics but can live without a friend who ghosted me over something to do with a lady but went mad full on FBPE after Brexit which seemed to generally be part of some kind of mid-life breakdown.
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Threeepwood - in a nutshell, yes. Heh.
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My father got himself into the internet during Covid and has completely lost his mind.
I can no longer have a conversation with him that doesn't result in him twisting into a bizarre conspiracy theory. He no longer asks about the welfare of the grandchildren (or me) unless it is under the auspice of needing to protect them from the coming doomsday.
For anyone that hasn't had the joy of the WEF world starvation plan: you are in for a treat. Essentially, the WEF controls the world's elite and media in a cunning plan to take over the entire world. It involves made up climate change; Covid wasn't real; mass starvation and population control; the removal of private ownership; the only food left will be insects; migrants and trans people are somehow to blame; and normally there is a very rich Jewish chap that is also twirling his tash behind the scenes. Interestingly Musk, Putin and Trump are the good guys.
Just like Cruella above - any attempt to politely point out the numerous illogical or paradoxical thoughts are met with snide derision and comments about how brain washed I am because I attended university and "trust" scientists and experts.
It is fascinating to behold. Prior to 2016 he was a staunch Labour supporter from working class that hated Thatcher and all that she stood for. I can appreciate how easily someone online can be essentially radicalised into a completely different way of thinking. It is quite scary.
He now is withdrawn from anyone that doesn't see the "truth" and refuses to discuss anything other than conjecture about WEF. I am watching him isolate further and further and don't know what to do about it.
He has actually become so nasty and blinkered that I find myself often hoping he will get covid and die before he gives all of his money away to some alt right nutter on the internet.
quite sad really...
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Can you not have a chat with one of those people that helps people leave cults as they probably have some tips on how to unbrainwash people?
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Thanks Sails
Really good idea I will look into it
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No.
I'm not a child.
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Or you can just refer him to Prevent...
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Oh yes, within my very large family I have brexiteers and xenophobics and varying levels of intellectually challenged folk. They are family though so have to tolerate and steer clear of politics and any conversation of substance.
I had a good friend I trained with who turned out to be a total bigot but only let her views be unleashed in all their glory when she thought we were good enough friends for her to do so. I ghosted her about two years ago. Daft muppet.
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Ageing in-laws for me. When I joined the family, Mrs Quips advised me that they had some "traditional" views on certain things but, to be fair to them, they kept a respectful lid on it - at least when I was around.
Until Brexit, the cuffs came off and it all came bundling out like manure.
Now it's hard to hold certain conversations without them getting angry, so its just football/grandchildren chat. Anything else is off limits.
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My friend started dating someone - they are serious and still together - who has just brainwashed her. She turned up to dinner and told me just generally in conversation that they wouldn't want their child (who is 3) to end up with a Muslim man and wear a hijab. I was literally like WTF... . I told her she couldn't say shit like that, but she didnt seem to understand that it was wrong which is even more worrying. I haven't seen her since. This is after similar views were expressed on gender, covid conspiracy, eastern europeans in the local town in drips and drabs over a period of years. However reflecting on it i actually don't think i was hard enough on her i think being caught off guard and in a restaurant and wish i would have taken it further.
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I also cant talk to a lot of my friends about politics - they live in a fantasy land where everything should be free but no one should pay taxes, and none of them work which makes me struggle even more. Everyone in the public sector should be paid like Bankers supposidly and when you try and put some rational argument around it i just get told that i am selfish, when actually i would say my views are pretty reasonable and left too! I don't talk about anything interesting with those people anymore. I have great debate with other groups of friends though even where we disagree normally with a lot of wine.
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Why would I care if someone was a Trotskyite or a Fascist or a Liberal, any more than I'd care if they were vegetarian, or Greek Orthodox, or an astrologer?
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I’m not sure the hijab is acceptable at all tbh, other than after having fully established the agency of the wearer etc etc. Is society progressed by not being able to see one another’s faces?
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Everything has become way too politicised.
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Wish, one of our mates got like that during covid and WFH, it was worrying. I know this might not help with your circumstances but just in case it does. He's almost back to normal now he's changed jobs and going into an office again.
Way too much time alone had sent him a bit mad, but I can see him improving every time we meet just by being back in the real world more. He'd become reluctant to even meet but that's getting better too. He's still not who he used to be, but there's hope now.
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I have someone in my family who's not really related to me at all but still comes to family events. She and her new husband constantly have a Lib Dem poster in their front garden and when she turned up to Christmas year before last she walked in and her first comment was about Boris. She looked utterly disappointed when I just changed the subject.
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I'm pretty sure a good number of Brexiters - and indeed non-Brexiters (now - obviously it wasn't an issue pre-2016) - would be happy being shot of NI, at least in theory.
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This is a perfectly acceptable thing to say
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“Is society progressed by not being able to see one another’s faces?”
The word you’re looking for is “niqab”.
Hijab is a head covering, like what Catholic nuns wear.
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Intended to conceal the wearer's hair from men who aren't her husband, on the basis that it'd drive them into sechsual frenzy.
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Don’t be rude Pez.
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If it's any consolation, a good many Latinos supported and still support Trump, and apparently that number increased in 2020 from 2016. There's been some writeups investigating Trump's appeal to Hispanic voters that touch on some interesting areas. I guess it's worth noting that quite a few minorities (Asians in the UK for instance) are instinctively pretty conservative; I've certainly heard comments from non-Muslim Indians that would make Farage blush.
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I've never met anyone who identifies as "trumpist". or a "bidenite" or whatever.
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Awaits handwringing.
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My mother is a Liberal Democrat councillor. One can't have a conversation with her without it turning into a long, poorly argued, rant about "The current administration" - being Green/independent locally and, obviously, the Conservatives nationally. The Welsh administration (being Labour) also gets a look in for being inherently not LD.
She then complains that neither children or grandchildren are particuarly interested in spending time with her.
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Sadly, the LDs all present like the heirs to early 20thC outdoors cults on the fringes of the non conformist church.
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One can't have a conversation with her without it turning into a long, poorly argued, rant about "The current administration
tbf I have found this to be the case with most political office holders I know and/or have spent time with - be it LD, Labour, Tory, Green or SNP
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This is a perfectly acceptable thing to say
it is but the thought process behind it betrays an odd fixation with Islam specifically and also generalisations.
Not all women who convert to Islam do so because she marry a Muslim man. Also not all Muslim women wear hijabs and you also get many fairly secular Muslims too.
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It's technically not necessary to do so if the woman in question is one of the "Peoples of the Book" ie Christian or Jewish. Men however who wish to marry a muslimah must have converted.
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and in any case the children of the union must be brought up as Muslims
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This is an interesting thread.
For me it's my dad and to a lesser extent mum. There were some ominous signs there but lockdown has made them much, much worse.
As with lots of other posters on here I think, for me it's the way they have stopped listening and are now unable to debate. Their opinions have both moved fast (to the right) and frozen hard in a pretty short space of time.
It's truly depressing to be a part of. So now it's just grandkids and safe topics. Undoubtedly drives a wedge between us all though.
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it's fcking weird to have views about who your tiny daughter might choose to marry
"I hate islam because it's always trying to control women!!!"
er...
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also, have youse noticed how many freemen of the land/magna carta maniacs there are out there now?
chilling tbh
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I wouldn’t be too thrilled if my (non-existent) offspring became a strict observer of any religion. Bit weird to single one out and bang on about it when they are four though. It does suggest a certain obsession.
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Oh, Sumo - do fvck off with your stupid sexist assumptions and talking sh1t about stuff you know nothing about.
I wasn’t interested in changing him - unlike you, apparently, I don’t believe that not earning lots of money is a character flaw that needs rectifying. And, actually, i knew that, if he ever did have lots of money, the problem i would have would be to stop him spending it on me.
His lack of money / ambition to earn more only became a problem when it turned him bitter and angry with the world (it was “the world’s” fault that, unlike some of his friends (who had become millionaires on paper, at least, he hadn’t invested in property in West London where he grew up, while prices were dirt cheap and he was earning a good salary). He never could let go of the “lost”opportunity, it consumed him as he watched prices go stratospheric and was constantly totting up what he would have been worth if he’d bought a couple of houses in portobello road for the peanuts they were going for in the 80s. He got angrier and more frustrated, and unfortunately, I was the part of the world that spent time with him, so I was the one who got vented on, because being pissed off at me was easier than getting another job.
I know I shouldn’t bother explaining myself to you or anyone for that matter, i should just ignore your drivel and not rise to your dickish poking, but these sorts of stupid sexist assumptions endure, and they p1ss me right off.
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it was “the world’s” fault that, unlike some of his friends (who had become millionaires on paper, at least, he hadn’t invested in property in West London where he grew up, while prices were dirt cheap and he was earning a good salary). He never could let go of the “lost”opportunity, it consumed him as he watched prices go stratospheric and was constantly totting up what he would have been worth if he’d bought a couple of houses in portobello road for the peanuts they were going for in the 80s.
no - it was the fault of successive Tory and Labour governments who drove through a plethora of policies turbocharging house price growth by a factor of 300% over a thirty year period relative to wages (ratio of average earnings to house price went from 1:3 to 1:9).
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Well, yes, there is definitely that (and believe me, that factor wasn't overlooked when he went off on one). But, there was also the fact that he chose to live very large and very well while he was earning proper money and not to cut back a little so he could buy (his assessment, not mine, I didn't know him then).
It really took him over, and the constant lengthy "I coulda been a contender" rants became very tiresome, But, I won't deny that I get how difficult it must be to have a daily reminder of what you perceive to have been life changingly bad decisions. Not sure how sanguine I would be if I was in his position...
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That's an interesting point about the correlation between long periods of aloneness and increased entrenchment in loony / conspiracy theories...
One of my friends voted for Brexit (the only close friend that I'm aware that did so), and we all sort of came to an unspoken agreement not to ever mention it. But, even so, I am aware that she has become more radicalised when it comes to all those grasping forrins who are only interested in stealing all of our good English pounds, and I definitely think that the fact that she barely leaves the house only makes her worse - whenever we spend time together as a group, she seems to leave feeling somehow lighter and more "normal", but then visibly regresses within a couple of days holed up back in her house with her 3 dogs and feck only knows how many cats.
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Unspoken agreement not to talk Brexit/politics with any member of my family to keep the peace.
+1 for having mental parents that constantly talk about their suspicion of the 'mainstream media' yet perfectly happy to accept as gospel what some bloke called Dave said on Facebook.
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But, there was also the fact that he chose to live very large and very well while he was earning proper money and not to cut back a little so he could buy (his assessment, not mine, I didn't know him then).
oh dear
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No.
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a selection of my oldest friends are all brexiteers, but that's fine. why fall out over it
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What always astounds me is the willingness of seemingly intelligent people to accept THE most outlandish theories. It's as if the bizarreness of the theories gives them actual life - it's not enough to suggest, e.g. a reluctance to take the vaccine because of any perfectly legitimate worries, they have to spiral off into madness and absurdity - I guess because it makes them feel special?
For example, my PT, a really well educated, knowledgeable man reckoned that the reason that a friend of his was clocked presenting a fake vaccination card at an airport was NOT because that friend had used a lo-fi forgery that looked like it was created by a child, but because - and he said this with a straight face - when his mate went through the scanner at the destination airport, the (miraculously, suddenly and secretly upgraded?) scanner did not detect the microchip that was inserted into all of us vaccinated "sheeple" via the injection.
So, he is more prepared to accept that The Government (funded by The Evil Cabal of Prominent Families Who Really Run Things and Want To Make Us Their Pets) has developed technology sophisticated enough to shrink a tracking device to the point where it can be dissolved into liquid and be fully functional, and has left this tech to be deployed by an army of unsuspecting medical sheeple, than to acknowledge that the fake certificate his buddy knocked out on the work photocopier might have been spotted by even a half asleep immigration official.
With him, in order to preserve our relationship, I decided to just pretend he hadn't said anything at all, and we now have a tacit agreement never to discuss the vaccine, ever.
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In my experience, there is significant overlap between PTs and conspiracy theory believers.
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Having the same experience as Wish I knew, but luckily it’s only my neighbour
she is completely insane with it all now. There’s no telling her.
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Disinformation = something I don’t agree with but can’t control
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Some of my best friends have very different views to me. I enjoy the informed debates and we often learn from each other.
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Of course Jim, noone wants to be friends with their own clones! But, you do kinda need to have similar values, and there are certain opinions that, to me, signal someone with values so different to mine that the gap is probably too wide to overcome (certainly, too wide to stay close).
One example is continuing to support Trump, another is being in favour of the death penalty - I think that either of those things makes someone a fundamentally sh1tty person, and no close relationship can survive that.
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no because I never waste time associating with interweb radicalised incel losers like risky in the first place
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"in order to preserve our relationship"
You left the trumpist and took up with a swole antivaxxer?
Or do you just mean the relationship of PT and client?
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Re the OP - my brother is a brexiteer and I love him dearly but I encourage my kids to slyly take the piss whenever possible.
I would tolerate it less in friends though.
Although actually one of my oldest friends is also a bit right wing. I tolerate it in him too, but he is almost family. And thank god be seems to have come to his senses a bit in the last year.
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Two insults on different threads in pretty short order merkz!
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Spurius - the PT / client relationship, of course, I'm not a masochist! (Mind you, maybe I am a bit - it did take me the best part of 10 years to realise that the ex and I should go our separate ways and, as is so often the case, it ended up being the most trivial straw that broke the camel's back).
Actually, my PT is someone I consider a dear friend, but his behaviour re the vaccine has chipped away at a lot of my respect for him... He's "dating" one of my best mates, and she is basically putty in his hands, would do pretty much anything to keep him happy. She is also, for a number of reasons, a proper hypochondriac.
He leaned heavily on both those things to try to persuade her not to take the vaccine - bombarding her relentlessly for months with "news" reports and videos about people who had allegedly developed devastating illnesses immediately after taking the vaccine, interspersed with threats that he wasn't sure he could really think a life with someone who was one of the sheeple, how could he trust her if she would do this to herself or, worse, if he couldn't rely on her NOT to do thing even though she knew how much it "hurt" him.
We talk about pretty much everything, but in the end, I had to ask her to stop telling me stuff because it got to the point that I was finding it difficult to be around him.
It did have one positive effect though, even she came to realise how appalling his behaviour was, and it broke the spell he had over her far more effectively than anything her friends have said over the years. She still cares deeply for him, but something definitely clicked because of it.
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Cru - I’m not saying there aren’t views which, if sincerely held, would put an extreme damper on any friendship. That goes without saying. However, I do think that quite significant political differences aren’t a bar to friendship as long as you have a healthy attitude to it. It’s probably what disappoints me most on Rof - when otherwise fun and sensible posters seem to take a position because of a political tribe and accuse anyone who disagrees of being thick, racist, treacherous or some other insult without actually engaging.
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Very fine people on both sides.
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Extremes are always the issue. Be moderate and polite and you should be fine (if dull).
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Just noticed this thread is one of two that PS has in the featured discussions! He’s on a roll.
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Come on all, this deserves another few posts. It’s not even a trans thread!
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I think that’s a fair summary. It’s more complicated than Team Chill would have you believe.
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Yeah, that’s the thing that worries me most. Can’t believe that the COE report Chill loves so much basically said debating the issues was a bad thing!
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On a separate note, I know that my attempted analysis of the report really rankled with Chill. He never countered any of the criticisms I raised but referenced my criticism more than a year later in apparent bitterness on an unrelated thread. Perhaps I did have some effect and it was worth it.
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Nope. But then I don't mind people's views and happy to discuss stuff.
The trans wars on rof were interesting because at least there were direct engagements between Team Chill and Team Anna- rather than 1 sided stuff.
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Was that the one where chill supported the guy until it came out that he takes about masrurbating on kids?
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Perfect tun for Prodders! Excellent, patient work. Worthy of Boycott himself.
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