For among other things allowing new punters to place 100k bets, notwithstanding their credit limit was 50k. Allowing new customers to gamble 20/30 k in an hour following a new account being opened, and allowing banned customers to reopen accounts immediately.
Gambling is something, I feel strongly about, I have known people lose houses, sometimes 2, succesful businesses , and divorce . These people really are the scourge of society, they need to have statutory regulation now.
Worse than drugs in my opinion. Far worse.
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It’s the ciggies of the age. Anyone in this biz who thinks they lucked out might want to think about how they’ll explain it to their kids.
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It just never ends well, for anyone apart from the bookies. It ruins lives like no other addiction. The posh ex charterhouse student and teacher who spaffed nearly a million quid. Elderly parents and grandparents had to sell shite loads to bail him out.
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It’s one of those things I think people need to be protected from. While I normally want minimal government intervention, problem gambling destroys people and their families as well as causing crime.
Stopping gambling companies sponsoring events and advertising would certainly be a start
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Yeah it's clearly a drain on society and the advertising is mainly aimed at men watching sport, as if it enhances the experience.
Ideally they would be heavy regulation - e.g. max 10 quid losses a day or something - but govt will never go for it due to the influence of gambling lobby.
Boris promised to ban gambling adverts on football kits and then quickly changed his mind.
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The manager of my snooker club lost two beautiful homes, one of which he inherited, and 250k cash , again an inheritance. When I naively asked him why not stop after he lost one home . He said EBITDA " Cigs, drugs, alcohol , you can only do so much before you collapse or die, gambling there is no physical impediment to how much you can do" It was then the penny dropped.
I knew another rich kid at the snooker club, who was at LSE, or at least he was meant to be, he thought nothing of spaffing 1500 quid a day to get the jackpot of 250 quid. When he won it, he saw it as a victory and would buy a huge round and go again.
What really boils my piss is the subliminal adverts, and the sheer amount of aunty advertising. The government have given them years to properely self regulate, and they haven't. ' When the fun stops, stop" Jesus how do the government think these slogans work
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There is something especially sad and pernicious about gambling addiction and the businesses that cause it. That said, i struggle with banning something like that as it is an exercise of your free will and many people get enjoyment out of it. It's a difficult problem though and the 'blight on society' argument is hard to ignore.
Feel the same way about payday loan companies tbh. I think they prey on the poor in much the same way and i would quite happily see those driven out of town, but some people make good and valid use of them.
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If you started at time=0, you would have a government monopoly not-for-profit betting exchange and that's it. All other gambling banned. It's ridiculous that the lottery is allowed to promote flashy games, let alone gambling.
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ban gambling completely, it’s for crooks and unfortunates
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Aren't their profits taxed offshore? The gambling commission should have withdrawn Williams Hill licence, it would have sent out a powerful message.
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i don’t like total bans, but agree limiting say 2 1 £50 bet per adult per annum would b gr7 in an ideal world
not losses, amounts bet
trouble is that can also drive it 2 illegal betting shops
so i think the only feasibl way is as here - enhanced regulation should put a duty of care on the betting companies, make them advertise addiction cures, flag total losses etc etc
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The offshore structures are complex and obvs deliberate, have a google.
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The govt health warning (‘When the fun stops, stop’) is pathetic
imagine booze or fag companies getting to imply that their product is ‘fun’ in the health warning
remember to enjoy the smooth refreshing taste of Stella Artois responsibly
stop mincing around, ban advertising anywhere where kids might see it (including all sporting events and pre watershed), have a proper health warning (preferably emphasising the higher risk of divorce, bankruptcy and suicide) and regulate the fvck out of their online activities. In fact I’d probably look to ban online gambling altogether, it doesn’t add anything to society, quite the opposite
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Yeah and this “please gamble responsibly” is just victim blaming.
It was of course Brown who basically deregulated gambling.
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It's all very well clamping down on it but to a large extent addictive personalities will find something so if it's not gambling it may be something equally destructive. Also remember if you get rid of online casinos and the like you drive people to the bloke in the pub who has punitive interest rates and a tendency to break your legs if you don't pay your losses. I think like drugs you're better off allowing it but in a very regulated manner.
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Absolutely right, unfortunately I speak from experience. Nearly did for me completely, only but for the love/support of friends and family.
It was FAR too easy to get into a complete nightmare situation. Gambling advertising has absolutely no place in society, people know where it is and how to do it if they want.
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My old man used to like a bet, here and there as he says. His worst year was about 10k he tells me, read across it was probably 20k. He could easily afford it. As he said it used to be not so bad because you had to go into a bookies, which takes planning and effort.
Nowadays you can with a tap of your phone bet wherever you want, when you want. Madness. Lets ban that for a start. I have seen people checking their apps in exams FFS!
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Sails there is nothing as equally addidictive or ruinous as gambling IMO.
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Absolutely this.
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Like scratch card purchasers , do my head in. You see them at the counter at Sainsburys , having bought 20 of the aunts, they then stand there holding everyone up, whilst they shake, go red, and sweat as they vigorously scratch away in the hope they have won. Also they hand 30 lotttery tickets to the cashier and ask them to check them all, even though they know they have lost. They then insist the cashier hands the tickets back to them. Err why...
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‘Also remember if you get rid of online casinos and the like you drive people to the bloke in the pub who has punitive interest rates and a tendency to break your legs if you don't pay your losses’
Most people wouldn’t bump into him or even know where to start looking
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That's thing, if you were struggling with say alcohol/drugs, it's a gradual process, people would (hopefully) see signs and have an opportunity to intervene.
Gambling is instant destruction by comparison, I watched a friend go from £80k up to £14k down in c.15 minutes once, on Ladbrokes slots.
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“like you drive people to the bloke in the pub who has punitive interest rates and a tendency to break your legs if you don't pay your losses”
Have you got a rabbit for my pot?
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They work at making the apps addictive, late at night when their audience is more vulnerable. They know exactly what they are doing and which customers are in over their heads.
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what I find shocking is that regulation of the gambling industry - and in particular of how vulnerable customers are treated - is largely industry-led
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Exactly. Which is why some interested group should take targeted legal action. I bet there would be some AWFUL discovery documents demonstrating this which would blow their wholly disingenuous advertising campaigns out of the water.
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football clubs too need to to take responsibility
something like 50% of football clubs are sponsored by gambling companies…
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“why some interested group should take targeted legal action”
The government.
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Jamie is right of course. Football clubs meant for the working classes sponsored by gambling companies who take advantage of the working classes.
It's an inevitable consequence of the lack of proper financial regulation in football.
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Footie is one big Ponzi scheme to fleece the punters.
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Fence plenty of people who have got a mate or two who will happily take a bet and happily introduce them to others. If you're properly addicted you'll find a way to satisfy the addiction.
It's like a teenage friend of mine who'd go through her parents house clearing out all the bottles only to find her parents had hidden more booze somewhere even more inventive and obscure. It was a relief when the police phoned her mother and told her she could either surrender her licence or face the prospect of the police pushing for a custodial sentence when they finally picked her up.
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Sails the point is that most people won't. We have laws against, and punishment for, murder, yet some people still do it. No-one is suggesting that absolutely no-one will find ways to gamble if it were heavily regulated/banned, but most people wouldn't try very hard if it weren't so convenient.
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At least with horses you get to study the form and enjoy the race. The sublimation of risk in a safe and fun environment within a licensed betting shop or trackside. The banks/card machines could easily control ban transactions to Casinos and betting sites so you'd end up having to go and pay Big Charlie in cash. At the moment Big Charlie appears to be a legitimate businessman.
Those games on your phone where they charge you £84 to buy tokens should probably be banned.
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I agree. But they won't because vested interests. Which is why someone else needs to do it.
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Who is that someone else?
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(Also from what I can see while Corbyn did want to tackle this issue and to be fair a lot of backbench Tozzas are very vocal on it too, I don't think Starmer has said anything about it).
I totally agree about the football - it's everywhere. It should be banned as it obviously normalises gambling for children if nothing else.
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No-one is suggesting that absolutely no-one will find ways to gamble if it were heavily regulated/banned, but most people wouldn't try very hard if it weren't so convenient.
Yup addicts never try very hard to get round the rules and it's worked really well with drugs.
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GamCare or similar, intervening on behalf of an individual whose life has been ruined who would have standing.
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I love Sailo's hinting that his mate dave could put him in touch with shady underground gambling syndicates. You so edgy
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I always find it absolutely outrageous that bookies are allowed to ban people who win too much.
If you want to be in the business, you should have to live with the risk that your customer is better at it than you.
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William Hill are shits. I once placed a bet on a football team to win a match. I came to collect my winnings and they told me it didn't count if they won in extra time. How was I supposed to know?
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The industry’s resources dwarf those of any campaigning org. And they crush dissenters. This needs government intervention not assuming charities will succeed.
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Most people have no access to illegal bookies, just like most people have no access to drug dealers.
Yes some people may continue using illegal bookies but I suspect many would either stop gambling or just don’t start. Your average online bingo saddo isn’t going to be consorting with criminals.
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The internet has had a massive impact on addiction. As others have mentioned, back in the day you would have to go into a bookies to place your first bet and each subsequent bet. The hassle/shame factor would surely stop some gambling addictions from ever starting and for some others, who are perhaps more prone, would at the very least slow the progression or result in problem gamblers rather than full blown addicts. Same goes for p0rn addiction, back in the day you'd have to go through the top shelf/seedy shop shame as opposed to finding stuff on your phone within seconds.
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Everyone has access to illegal bookies for horse racing. All you need is an internet connection and a search engine.
Anyone betting using a bookie app or website in a sufficient volume to deposit the amounts referred to in that article would simply move to the black market if gambling on horse racing was outlawed in the UK.
What they should look at is making the crack-like addictive FOBT in bookies shops illegal. People betting in an actual shop are less likely to seek out the illegal online bookmakers. However, they've already targeted FOBT in the previous crackdown on problem gambling
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I know it will come across draconian, but one should apply for an annual permit to bet which involves an affordability assessment, or at the least affordability advice. You would specify the total amount you will commit (i.e. lose) to gambling per year. Whilst a slight inconvenience for casual gamblers to get the permit, they won't have an issue in that they will be setting a total annual gambling limit of <5% of earnings/assets. For those that specify a much higher amount then at the least they will need to have an awkward conversation to explain why, plus they can use the limit to cap their losses for the year. Unless I'm being naive such a system wouldn't push too much gambling to the illegal market given everyone can still gamble, just with sensible amounts.
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I occasionally play the fruties, particularly when I have had a few. Probably spend about 30 quid a year. I am a fruit machine owners worst nightmare. Put a quid in, get two quid back, and walk away.
Does my gambling friends heads in, who swear I was on a winning streak ,and should have pressed on!. Other than that I have a bet on the snooker, and tennis (particularly the bigger tournaments), mainly £5/10 accas . At least that requires knowledge and some skill. Probably lay couple of hundred quid all told.A team of academics from various disciplines have been researching this stuff for years and their is no dissent from the fact hardcore chronic gamblers, its wired in their DNA and is a disease of the mind.
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Yes there are addictive personalities who will find something to fulfil that craving whether it be gambling, pron or drugs.
What I find weird is that there are some things which are mean to be addictive and yet I've tried them and can take or leave them.
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There are also only 6 or 7 races spread over an afternoon so it’s a lot slower way to lose your money. The online slot games can burn through money at an incredible rate and would seem to be the gambling equivalent of crack.
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That’s right Sails and what I mean by protecting people from themselves.
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Indeed Sails, I have indulged in the past in things which are said to be addictive for some and they are, but it never , ever troubled me. That is because it is not in my DNA. On the rare occasions when I have a good drinking sesh, I never feel inclined to press on the next day.
The reverse, I want a salty, spicy, curry or chinese , and the comfort of my settee all day/night.
What sails said.
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I rarely gamble these days and only generally in spots where I think there is legitimate value (mainly through knowing a lot about the workings and prospects of Barnsley FC) but I have had it be a problem for some mates, luckily they seem to have put it behind them.
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Gambling regulation in the UK is one of the strictest if not the strictest in the world. The regs are onerous and the GC enforces based in feeling rather than actually specifying what operators are required to do. People advocating further restrictions have no understanding of the regulation or current regime. Their is an imminent white paper that will introduce further restrictions, this will push even more people offshore to unregulated sites with no oversight for responsible gambling. Alcohol has far greater impact on everyone who uses it than gambling does and the % of problem gamblers in the UK is tiny, with many schemes, charities and tech solutions to help problem gamblers and prevent them suffering harm.
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^^^^
paid shill
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There are lots of regulations about alcohol. And boozers can only drink so much before dying.
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Wish I was a paid shill
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It seems a bit wrong to post this in here but I have just noticed Adam Phillips is 18/1 on Skybet to score from outside the area for Barnsley tonight. That's ludicrously overpriced imo, he averages a goal from outside the area every 318 minutes this season.
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When at the criminal Bar I especially loathed those who preyed on the weak.
Gamblers have a very defined Achilles heel.
The Bookies ponce off them in a state sanctioned fashion.
And the Government ponces off them which is why they are happily complicit.
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I came across this kind of thing many times when I used to play poker regularly in pubs which were totally bending the law with the kind of games played and the money staked.
So many people who came were there not really to play the game properly but just to gamble .
And then when they went all in on their 2 5 off suit and lost they'd be on the fruit machines then in he betting shop on those awful little machines in the corner ... Then struggling to eat....
Morons , I used to think at the time. But looking back it's pretty dark that people like Denise Coates are worth hundreds of millions off fools like these .
It should be at least as shameful as being a millionaire from tobacco tbh
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Guilty heh @ SB
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ITT: People who have no idea how gambling companies or gambling regulation works.
Study after study has shown that over restricting gambling drives people to unregulated and dangerous companies.
What should be worked on is improving education and monitoring at some companies. Some already do excellent jobs.
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Most of these posts are about advertising, health warnings and marketing
Unless you think prohibiting marketing ‘drives people to unregulated or dangerous companies’
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Marketing rots our brains. It starts young. Games on the phone with all these adverts for other games get the kids hooked. If they don't get their fix at home there'll be some dealer outside the school gates. Probably.
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Our phones are too crafty for us now. They've worked out what we want. Breaking down our resistance like a pimp. It's not the gambling itself which can be fun (enjoy the race without the risks associated with being a jump jockey). It's that dependancy. The compulsive online habits in particular. I think that everyone under a certain age is seriously affected by this. A First World problem.
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Having worked in gambling previously for over 5 years it is not the best industry.... seeing chat histories of people threatening to kill themselves as they can't afford the essentials. There is so much more that the operators can do to protect people but their influence on regulation is terrifying.
This video rings true to my experience.
https://video.vice.com/en_uk/video/informer-dark-side-of-betting-indust…
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