No, I can't think of a march that doesn't sound totally ballbag tbh. I wouldn't even stand outside the RCJ with a badly painted sign looking like the tory austerity had made soap unaffordable.
I can't think of a march that doesn't sound totally ballbag tbh
This is also a fair point. A bit like music festivals, you just know you're going to be surrounded by loads of total bellends and getting a pint will be a nightmare.
In the old days I would have but only to try to make contact with some impressionable female student activists who are oh so earnest. These days? Forget it.
I did go on the last one and had a v nice pint at The Admiralty just off Trafalgar Square
the general crowd vibe at the last one was as middle class as you get. the general attitude was restrained and polite fury at the fookwittedness of the situation we find ourselves in.
Me. I’m not hopeful it will make any difference, but I’d like to put on record that I tried, especially when my children grow up and ask me WTF were we all thinking.
England v Sri Lanka 5.15am-12.29pm. Chelski v the rags at the Kremlin 12.30pm-2.30pm. City v Burnley 3pm - 4.52pm. Huddersfield v the dippers 5.30pm-7.30pm.
I wasn't in favour of the referendum, I'm as dismayed as the next man about the current shambles and I'm ambivalent about the question of Brexit in principle, but I feel strongly that any second, third or subsequent referendum on essentially the same question as the first (especially because, not despite, the vote being so close) will be a huge blow to trust in our system overall (notwithstanding what is or not democratic per se). I believe erosion of that basic trust and certainty over the long term will ultimately cost more in hard cash than no deal (not to say that I believe cash is the highest value FAOD).
Plonymous is right. More democracy extinguishes democracy. People shouldn't be allowed another vote because in 2016 they were fully informed and the referendum wasn't hugely influenced by malignant interests which are now much better understood.
If you're ambivalent about the question of brexit, you're a stupid khunt.
A lot of middle aged posh ladies round here are going.
have to say I agree with TMPM on this, we had the peoples vote already.
that said if we did have another ref then please only on the proviso that whatever the outcome just get on with it and stop whining and all parties get behind it.
Whatever the outcome is, MP’s should be committed to delivering it.
Minkie’s referendum.
1. As mNy official campaigns as there are options on the ref paper
2. All campaigns to be cross party
3. Campaigns given 7 days to deliver a short document stating their opinions regarding outcomes on a set list of areas eg trade & tariffs, immigration figures, NI borderetc - all the known areas of concern.
4. Vote extended to 16 yr olds. No upper age limit.
5. voting within 5 weeks - do not let it drag on and become a sideshow
6. Govnt to decide on wording on the election papers.
There needs to be a further* huge blow to trust in our system.
A system whichhas put us in the position we now find ourselves is not a system which we can trust.
A system which gives such a powerful voice to people like re: smog and Boorish Johnson is not a system we can trust.
A system which gives the DUP an effective veto over policy for the nation is not a system we can trust.
That said, I think a march is too small beer, and too easy to ignore.
I think everyone who feels that the current political system is intolerable (on both sides), or who feels utterly disenfranchised, should just not go to work for a day. We need national politics is bvllsh1t day or something.
(*what Cameron did in calling the referendum, then the lies told during it, then the stupid GE call by may, then the stupid deal with and bribe to the DUP have already dealt a massive blow to trust in the system, the system is goatse'd)
I went on the last one and will go tomorrow. I don't particularly think we should have a 2nd referendum but I do think the voices of the 48% and those of us who want a sensible trade deal (I'd settle for staying in the customs union rather than the single market) need to be heard. All the political pressure is coming from the ERG, DUP and hard Brexit supporters. Doubt it will achieve much if anything but feel I should do something in arguing the case for a more sensible deal rather than Hard Brexit or leaving without a deal.
Ordinarily Wellers you have a point about demonstrations and how they are best avoided due to all the ranty, unwashed Socialist Worker types you get going. However as Heffers says the last one was very middle class and restrained. The most aggressive it got was the "Where's Jeremy Corbyn" chants which a few of us got started. Needed a few of us with football terrace type loud voices to get the Surrey WI type crowd going on that one but that was really as nasty as it got. Will be the same tomorrow.
Probably a reflection of how the Hard Brexit/UKIP/DUP types will get what they want that they are much more aggressive and shout loudest, but at least it's doing something. Aggressive though nah.
Anyhow as an LFC fan Chelsea/Man Yoo has limited appeal to me. Admittedly if it was say Liverpool against Citeh, Chelsea or United etc. I'd probably not miss the match for the march
I do have a horrible feeling another referendum will be similarly close and we'll just have the same thing for months but without a different group shouting about having another vote.
i reckon a 2nd vote could easily change the result, not least cos 1m oldies have died but also its certain that every last remainer and their dog wd vote
I'm not saying you won't get a different result but I'm still not convinced it will be an overwhelming majority and you'll just have different people saying the 45% of us who didn't get the decision we wanted still need to be heard and they'll start marching. You need the kind of vote that comes out with a sort of 80/20 split one way or the other to really kill the issue off.
Setting a minimum victory threshold should have been done in the first instance. No victory unless say 65% can agree to it.
It’s such an important issue that conditional voting does make sense but of course that will never fly.
For what it’s worth, even as a remainder, the vote was to leave under the principle terms agreed on by those who put it to the vote. Therefore if democracy means anything, we should leave. I think democracy can handle a delay but not a change of entire direction.
Personally, I'd take the vote away from effete Remain-voting middle-class liberals.
Have you actually met any of these people?
Many of them live in London. Their children have strange names like India and Pericles. They eat bizarre food with ambiguous pronunciation. They go skiing but can't be trusted to do up their shoelaces as a rule.
Most of them have non-jobs, even that small number who don't work in the public sector in capacities such as "Head of Insight".
I'd suggest national service, but it would just bring down the standard of the Army.
If anything good comes out the EU referendum perhaps at least it will be that we learn a lesson never to hold another referendum. Holding further referenda would rob us of even that.
I went to register my disgust at the current situation. It was an outstanding turnout and actually left me feeling proud of a large number of my compatriots. What a day! There will be a second referendum fo sho!
Great chat between Andrew Neill and Alastair Campbell over the weekend
AN: Over 1m people marched, urging the government – of which you were a central figure – not to invade Iraq. You ignored them. Why should this government take any notice of 100k Remainers calling for a second referendum?
AC: [insert nonsense reply about democracy or something here]
I’m a Remainer but I think a second ref is a bad idea and a far bigger risk than most people here seem to think. The backlash risk of people - who still haven’t actually suffered because Brexit hasn’t happened yet - voting Leave again because they don’t like being told to vote again by the elites because they didn’t get the right answe last time is *enormous*
Ideal situation would have been for a sensible PM in 2016 to take us out of the EU and into EEA or EFTA and accept the loss of influence as the price of fulfilling the ref mandate.
Not sure what can happen going forward now. Except a hard Brexit.
That Evening Standard Osborne editorial makes it seem like staying in the EU is a done deal and we only need to choose it. It kind of omits the fact the EU needs to agree to let us stay (and it is politically untenable in this country to do that without another ref which has huge risks as I posted above).
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I would if I didn't have to go to a small child's birthday party instead
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No, I can't think of a march that doesn't sound totally ballbag tbh. I wouldn't even stand outside the RCJ with a badly painted sign looking like the tory austerity had made soap unaffordable.
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This is also a fair point. A bit like music festivals, you just know you're going to be surrounded by loads of total bellends and getting a pint will be a nightmare.
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In the old days I would have but only to try to make contact with some impressionable female student activists who are oh so earnest. These days? Forget it.
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I did go on the last one and had a v nice pint at The Admiralty just off Trafalgar Square
the general crowd vibe at the last one was as middle class as you get. the general attitude was restrained and polite fury at the fookwittedness of the situation we find ourselves in.
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Me. I’m not hopeful it will make any difference, but I’d like to put on record that I tried, especially when my children grow up and ask me WTF were we all thinking.
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I think so, for the same reason as Pumpkin.
I've never marched for anything in my life, and the timing is inconvenient, but I feel like I must.
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I am also of the mind that it won't make a difference, but at least I can say I tried.
My problem will be getting there in time.
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I'd consider attending a counter-demonstration - is there one?
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I really think the mistake they have made is to do it on London should have asked people to trek up to manchester or summat
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Georgie O comes out in favour:
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-people-s-protest-brings-a-second-vote-closer-a3966251.html
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I will be attending, largely for the same reason as pumpkin, as will the bird and son, though it'll play havoc with nap time.
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Archibald there have been large marches all over
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England v Sri Lanka 5.15am-12.29pm. Chelski v the rags at the Kremlin 12.30pm-2.30pm. City v Burnley 3pm - 4.52pm. Huddersfield v the dippers 5.30pm-7.30pm.
No window for protesting, sozzle pips.
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"I feel like I must"
"I’d like to put on record that I tried"
U fcuking plums
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I wasn't in favour of the referendum, I'm as dismayed as the next man about the current shambles and I'm ambivalent about the question of Brexit in principle, but I feel strongly that any second, third or subsequent referendum on essentially the same question as the first (especially because, not despite, the vote being so close) will be a huge blow to trust in our system overall (notwithstanding what is or not democratic per se). I believe erosion of that basic trust and certainty over the long term will ultimately cost more in hard cash than no deal (not to say that I believe cash is the highest value FAOD).
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why does that makes us plums, Dux? better than sitting at home bitching about not liking what we are stuck with and doing fook all about it...
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What Nexis said
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Plonymous is right. More democracy extinguishes democracy. People shouldn't be allowed another vote because in 2016 they were fully informed and the referendum wasn't hugely influenced by malignant interests which are now much better understood.
If you're ambivalent about the question of brexit, you're a stupid khunt.
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I would worry about Nazis tbh
I am not a brave person
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also kettling
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Heh @ Threeps
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you really think your grand children will care?
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Will it stop me getting to lunch at the Wolesley?
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A lot of middle aged posh ladies round here are going.
have to say I agree with TMPM on this, we had the peoples vote already.
that said if we did have another ref then please only on the proviso that whatever the outcome just get on with it and stop whining and all parties get behind it.
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How can you get behind something when nobody knows what it is?
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There was this time, in band camp....
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Whatever the outcome is, MP’s should be committed to delivering it.
Minkie’s referendum.
1. As mNy official campaigns as there are options on the ref paper
2. All campaigns to be cross party
3. Campaigns given 7 days to deliver a short document stating their opinions regarding outcomes on a set list of areas eg trade & tariffs, immigration figures, NI borderetc - all the known areas of concern.
4. Vote extended to 16 yr olds. No upper age limit.
5. voting within 5 weeks - do not let it drag on and become a sideshow
6. Govnt to decide on wording on the election papers.
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0
There needs to be a further* huge blow to trust in our system.
A system whichhas put us in the position we now find ourselves is not a system which we can trust.
A system which gives such a powerful voice to people like re: smog and Boorish Johnson is not a system we can trust.
A system which gives the DUP an effective veto over policy for the nation is not a system we can trust.
That said, I think a march is too small beer, and too easy to ignore.
I think everyone who feels that the current political system is intolerable (on both sides), or who feels utterly disenfranchised, should just not go to work for a day. We need national politics is bvllsh1t day or something.
(*what Cameron did in calling the referendum, then the lies told during it, then the stupid GE call by may, then the stupid deal with and bribe to the DUP have already dealt a massive blow to trust in the system, the system is goatse'd)
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ot lf sed
one of the reasons i actually didnt vote as disgust at all of it, inc being asked
i was also abroad
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I went on the last one and will go tomorrow. I don't particularly think we should have a 2nd referendum but I do think the voices of the 48% and those of us who want a sensible trade deal (I'd settle for staying in the customs union rather than the single market) need to be heard. All the political pressure is coming from the ERG, DUP and hard Brexit supporters. Doubt it will achieve much if anything but feel I should do something in arguing the case for a more sensible deal rather than Hard Brexit or leaving without a deal.
Ordinarily Wellers you have a point about demonstrations and how they are best avoided due to all the ranty, unwashed Socialist Worker types you get going. However as Heffers says the last one was very middle class and restrained. The most aggressive it got was the "Where's Jeremy Corbyn" chants which a few of us got started. Needed a few of us with football terrace type loud voices to get the Surrey WI type crowd going on that one but that was really as nasty as it got. Will be the same tomorrow.
Probably a reflection of how the Hard Brexit/UKIP/DUP types will get what they want that they are much more aggressive and shout loudest, but at least it's doing something. Aggressive though nah.
Anyhow as an LFC fan Chelsea/Man Yoo has limited appeal to me. Admittedly if it was say Liverpool against Citeh, Chelsea or United etc. I'd probably not miss the match for the march
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Heffalump19 Oct 18 10:54
the general crowd vibe at the last one was as middle class as you get
....yeah, the plebs just dont get it, do they
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I do have a horrible feeling another referendum will be similarly close and we'll just have the same thing for months but without a different group shouting about having another vote.
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i reckon a 2nd vote could easily change the result, not least cos 1m oldies have died but also its certain that every last remainer and their dog wd vote
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I'm not saying you won't get a different result but I'm still not convinced it will be an overwhelming majority and you'll just have different people saying the 45% of us who didn't get the decision we wanted still need to be heard and they'll start marching. You need the kind of vote that comes out with a sort of 80/20 split one way or the other to really kill the issue off.
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You just need someone in charge to say “we’re not doing it, everyone can just pipe the fook down” to actually kill the issue off.
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Setting a minimum victory threshold should have been done in the first instance. No victory unless say 65% can agree to it.
It’s such an important issue that conditional voting does make sense but of course that will never fly.
For what it’s worth, even as a remainder, the vote was to leave under the principle terms agreed on by those who put it to the vote. Therefore if democracy means anything, we should leave. I think democracy can handle a delay but not a change of entire direction.
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See what happens when you give poor people the vote?
What have I been saying? Didn’t I warn that you about this sort of thing?
Maybe you’ll listen to your old uncle strutter next time.
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Personally, I'd take the vote away from effete Remain-voting middle-class liberals.
Have you actually met any of these people?
Many of them live in London. Their children have strange names like India and Pericles. They eat bizarre food with ambiguous pronunciation. They go skiing but can't be trusted to do up their shoelaces as a rule.
Most of them have non-jobs, even that small number who don't work in the public sector in capacities such as "Head of Insight".
I'd suggest national service, but it would just bring down the standard of the Army.
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Tec the genie is out of the box now.
65% is a nice idea but that ship has sailed, the staus quo is now half in half out. Might have worked in 2016 but too late now.
and even if everyone does then pipe down it wont stop half the country blaming the other half for whatever ills befall us for the next 50 years.
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No, I just use Velcro obvs.
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halcyon dayz
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If anything good comes out the EU referendum perhaps at least it will be that we learn a lesson never to hold another referendum. Holding further referenda would rob us of even that.
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I went to register my disgust at the current situation. It was an outstanding turnout and actually left me feeling proud of a large number of my compatriots. What a day! There will be a second referendum fo sho!
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Great chat between Andrew Neill and Alastair Campbell over the weekend
AN: Over 1m people marched, urging the government – of which you were a central figure – not to invade Iraq. You ignored them. Why should this government take any notice of 100k Remainers calling for a second referendum?
AC: [insert nonsense reply about democracy or something here]
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I’m a Remainer but I think a second ref is a bad idea and a far bigger risk than most people here seem to think. The backlash risk of people - who still haven’t actually suffered because Brexit hasn’t happened yet - voting Leave again because they don’t like being told to vote again by the elites because they didn’t get the right answe last time is *enormous*
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Ideal situation would have been for a sensible PM in 2016 to take us out of the EU and into EEA or EFTA and accept the loss of influence as the price of fulfilling the ref mandate.
Not sure what can happen going forward now. Except a hard Brexit.
That Evening Standard Osborne editorial makes it seem like staying in the EU is a done deal and we only need to choose it. It kind of omits the fact the EU needs to agree to let us stay (and it is politically untenable in this country to do that without another ref which has huge risks as I posted above).
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