Trans school toilets working well

Does the ridiculous 'intellectual' elite in this country have to cravenly adopt every piece of new US insanity?

And as usual, having selfrighteously imposed their fanaticism, they do not spend the money to make the nonsense work properly 

“Girls are being forced to hold themselves until they get home which could damage kidneys. My friend's daughter has been holding herself all day because she’s so embarrassed. It’s not fair on the kids really,” 

The situation is made more difficult by the flawed design of the toilet cubicles, which don’t have floor-to-ceiling walls. This makes peeking quite easy, and indeed, parents say, there have been cases of boys looking over the tops at girls on the toilet

https://www.rt.com/uk/470350-unisex-toilets-primary-school/

the thing about Russia today is, it does cover true stories that the UK press won't (obv the trick si judiciousness as with any news outlet)

this story is true and imo these teachers all need a swirly

What a disgrace. No doubt some tede will pipe up having noted this is an RT story. Yeah yeah, and maybe the Russians do want to create social division in the UK, but the British Establishment is doing a pretty good job itself.

I think Russians probably started the whole trans lunacy thing actually

then gently fanned the flames and now we will drown in our own madness

it truly blows my mind that something as fundamental as privacy for little children (lynchpin of anti-paedophile measures) has been snatched away to pander to the children of psychologically abusive parents

I mean obviously it's also a shame for that second group of children but the answer is to tell their parents that they are wrong and mad

I agree that if you’re below the the age where you could have gender realignment surgery, then your toilet access should be governed but your natural sex, but at the same time i do not think this is the end of britiah civilisation as we know it.

the ripple effects are profound, laz

I won't ever vote for a party that supports measures like this and I know plenty of other who feel the same

in the culture wars this means voting for people you wouldn't otherwise

Oh look as I've said before boys are using the trans agenda to peek at girls.  If I was a teenager again I'd totally declare myself trans and get a transfer to the girls' dormitory before then deciding I was a boy after all.

the thing about Russia today is, it does cover true stories that the UK press won't (obv the trick si judiciousness as with any news outlet

Yes, that is how good (meaning propaganda) works. Lots of people think propagnda = lying. It doesn't. Lies are supposed to be used very sparingly because people are quite good at spotting them. 

At its most effective, RT does exactly what Clergs says and highlights (and often blows out of all proportion) an under-reported, but true story. 

Goebbels diaries (which are one of the best sources for what we know about the Nazi side of the war) are really fascinating and talk a lot (unsurprisingly given who wrote them) about the theory of propaganda which is a minor obsession of mine. 

the ripple effects are profound, laz

I won't ever vote for a party that supports measures like this and I know plenty of other who feel the same

in the culture wars this means voting for people you wouldn't otherwise

God you are on fire lately. Can I marry you? I mean, we may need to work out the details with my existing wife of course. 

Fair enough. I will not pretend to care as deeply about the issue as you do but I agree on the policy question. 

The only political issue currently determining the way I will vote is brexit, tbh. I will consider other policy questions when brexit is resolved. I don’t agree with male children being allowed to use the girls’ toilets tho. 

Why not just have unisex toilets in schools?  Obviously have decent cubicles to afford privacy, but solves the issue surely...

it would be great to be able to harness it instead of being a horrified cassandray observer, wouldn't it

I mean I know PR companies pretend to do that but they don't really

I don't know about marriage but once again I really want a cheesetoastie for lunch

I think these toilets ARE unisex and the problem is you can see over them

honestly it is like the design has been created by someone who has never met children

I am not sure floor to ceiling cubicles are very safe for four year olds going to the toilet alone

I tend to think that is the solution - have unisex toilets with totally segregated cubicles and a basin area that is open to passers-by so is less likely to be a threatening space.

Some schools do have this and, at one time, way back at the start of the twentieth century when state education was expanded, all those red brick gabled primary schools did.

But the reason this is not done nowadays is that most modern schools would require expensive renovation and, as Rhamnousia says, government is too cheap to do things properly.

Another thing that would work is for us all to go back to pissing and shitting in the open, like in our cave days; if people were trained to do this from the day they were potty trained then they wouldn’t be self conscious about who sees them on the throne. Bring back outdoor modems forthwith!

There was a trans child on Radio 4 this morning, who actually sounded like he had real psychological issues. I think that the trans label actually covers up other problems.

but the loo situation is terrible.  If they are genuinely trans or just want to show off, let them use the disabled bogs.

" Obviously have decent cubicles to afford privacy"

Have you just arrived off the boat?

THEY WON'T SPEND THE FKING MONEY

RT lifted the story from the Daily Heil. I thought RT more in tune with this site

If I have children, they are going to go to proper single sex (preferably full on jesuit) schools.

If you’re old enough to feel like a girl trapped in a boy’s body, you’re also old enough to understand that you do, in fact, have a boy’s body and to have it explained to you that, at least until you’re an adult, your access to some things is going to be determined by that fact.

I’m not belittling the pain that will cause in a small number of cases, but the line has to be drawn somewhere, and wherever it will be drawn it will upset someone. It’s easiest just to draw it on the basis of biological sex at an age when people aren’t able to consent to their biological sex characteristics being realigned.

Bernstein m88 you’ve a hair trigger temper lately. How long is it since you got laid? Presumably T+(time since you last posted) longer than when you last posted.

Right on Jude

Exclusive brethren a useful alternative for Prods

this is exactly what I mean, jc

not in a gazillion years would I have thought catholic schools were anything less than an abomination

now I am like "well... "

re co-morbidity, I think it's a cover for autism and a lot of parents would rather a trans child than an autistic one 

good lord

I’s much rather my children were exposed to gender-confused toilets than to catholicism fgs

it would be great to be able to harness it instead of being a horrified cassandray observer, wouldn't it

I mean I know PR companies pretend to do that but they don't really

I don't know about marriage but once again I really want a cheesetoastie for lunch

Heh.

Schools are constantly whining about lack of funds. I assume they already have crappers for both boys and girls so what is the point of spending any money converting them solely to pander to a bunch of ideologues. Tell them to get fucked. 

the child this morning, in my opinion, sounded autistic, a bit too precocious but also not quite right and the parent was pandering to it.

this is why we need a full on right wing government to bring back family values.

I’m not allowed in the trans lobby. they told me to stay in the cis male lobby and not to try to peek into the other ones.

do you think that Vlad would put up with this nonsense? I think not!

this is why we need a full on right wing government to bring back family values

I agree, but Jesuits? What's wrong with the Benedictines?

“this is why we need a full on right wing government to bring back family values”

fuck me did you actually type that?

I do think this exemplifies why humans revert to hard core puritanism every few centuries

we cannot be trusted not to fuck freedom right up and then it's "hm, sex offenders in my toilets and hospital wards or being a bit modest and sex offenders being beaten with sticks?"

do you think that Vlad would put up with this nonsense? I think not!

*Puts on pedant hat*

It's "Vova" not "Vlad". Vlad is short for Vladislav. Vova is short for Vladimir. 

I don’t think it’s actually a choice between sex offenders in toilets and mediaeval puritanism, but if it absolutely did come to that in a referendum, I’d probably vote for sex offenders in toilets because I assume the toilets I get to use are full of sex offenders anyway.

I will write this up in my "how to marry a Russian oligarch" notebook.

do you think he'd be furious if u addressed him as Vova tho? ps this is good knowledge

the child this morning, in my opinion, sounded autistic, a bit too precocious but also not quite right and the parent was pandering to it.

I have seen it suggested that there is a very high prevalance of autism amongst "trans" kids. Give the suicide rates for trans people (which does not seem to improve that much post-transition) it does seem reasonable to conclude that a lot of these people may have pretty serious mental health problems (assuming feeling trans is not itself a serious mental health problem).

That does not mean they should not be treated humanely and respectfully but we should not be in a big rush to adapt society to their needs / delusions.  

@3-ducks fluent Russian speaker init. You are too, right? 

you should stick that on amazon for pre-order. I’d consider buying it, although I suppose what would really clinch the sale would be knowing that you had in fact succeeded in marrying a russian oligarch

yeah I do actually think, laz, when it comes down to things like girl guides etc there is a bit of an undertone of "oh right and it's ok if the baby eating bishop of bath volunteers in the Cubs but not the Brownies?"

so I can see why males may feel conflicted

overall, though, I don't think humans should be conditioned to ignore their "holy fuck what is wrong with this weirdo" survival instinct

I assume they already have crappers for both boys and girls so what is the point of spending any money converting them solely to pander to a bunch of ideologues. Tell them to get fucked. 

This ffs.  Also, "a bunch" being a very small number. 

Funny how men don't get furious hounding abuse when they say these things

 

FAOD I agree with you toastie

@lindaradlett

Yes, funny that.

Almost as if some (no, not all or most) trans women are using it as an excuse to get away with being horrible to women? Almost as if they despise women and have found a way to get away with it. 

Most of the furious hounding comes from woke leftie men toastie. They get to look right on and be shitty to women at the same time, it must be amazing for them 

Judy, please tell me the "non-U" comment was tongue-in-cheek... 

"re co-morbidity, I think it's a cover for autism and a lot of parents would rather a trans child than an autistic one "

 

It's not a "cover", more a misdiagnosis. Some traits, such as otherness, isolation, are shared. I agree that some parents are adding further confusion to a mind which is already struggling to decipher the world. 

TBF Hoolie, most of the rage on this board on this topic is coming from blokes who like kicking feminists regardless of their own political views.  Bit like those chaps who suddenly care about mistreatment of women when its done by brown-skinned people.

I know Orwell. I'm talking more generally. Twitter for example. Lots of beardy woke men (mostly Canadian) getting all the woke cookies for attacking women. 

I don't mean necessarily a conscious cover, just an opportunity for unscrupulous campaigners to "claim" a trans child as one of them. All that creepy rainbow family stuff. And parents are scared to say "no maybe he's just autistic"

Bit like those chaps who suddenly care about mistreatment of women when its done by brown-skinned people

That's not a thing.

What is very much a thing is so-called feminists turning a blind eye to atrocities committed in certain  "communities".

Of course it's a huge thing, Dux, but given some of your previously professed views I wouldn't expect you to have noticed this.

And WTF are you talking about with second sentence?

And parents are scared to say "no maybe he's just autistic"

 

 

From what I've seen of the published stories in this regard, it all seems to be about the parents...read into that what you like.

 

oh totally

"he liked pretty things! I was so scared!"

maybe your son just likes glitter cos he's idk three

From what I've seen of the published stories in this regard, it all seems to be about the parents...read into that what you like.

Yes, it is amazing how the children of radical, woke parents seem to be disproportionately likely to be "trans". 

Orwell, I am just as serious as Nancy Mitford was when she wrote the essay in Nobless Oblige.

It's incredibly sexist of the woke brigade to say that if a child likes glitter they must be a girl.  They don't like having this pointed out to them tho 

It’s a mess. I have been following the kerfuffle over the old Vic loos. Beyond parody. 

@lindaradlett

It is one of the many contradictions in the identity politics ideology.

1. Gender roles are all stupid social constructs and have nothing to do with biological sex.

2. This boy likes high heels so he must actually be a girl. 

I think they should probably pick one. 

No toastie they think gender identity is innate and the only defining factor as to whether a person is male or female or neither 

it's biological sex they think is a construct / continuum. For example they say incredibly racist things like biological sex is a form of cultural imperialism because native tribes didn't know the difference between men and women before the missionaries turned up 

It's madness and very possibly all a massive troll by Russians Bots, but some people have swallowed it hook line and sinker 

 

I told Tim Minchin off and he deleted all his tweets on the subject Orwell. 

Thank fuck for that, Judy. With some of what you've been saying lately about royals etc., I was worried you'd missed the joke.

Glad to hear you influenced him Hools. I'd begun to think he was just getting unthinkingly extremist in his views.

I don't share Clergs' level of antipathy on this - I have been mates with trans people for 30 years and know that not everyone in that community supports the latest round of gender-focused identity politics. 

The thing that incenses me about it all is actually the point that Hoolie made.  Feeling like you've got the wrong tackle is one thing, but suggesting that liking glitter, make-up or heels is inherently female or that having short hair, preferring trousers or liking footy is inherently male is massively sexist and harking back to gender stereotyping of a century ago.

I don't think I ever said I thought trans people were all one? it's modern trans rights activism that is the problem (and quite distinct from the way normal non-dick humans live their lives). If I were trans I would be fucking furious about all of this and how mad and undermining it is.

No you haven't, but you do tend to get angrier about the topic generally than I do.

ERRRRR ORWELL, I ADORE AND REVERE OUR ROYAL FAMILY (apart from Bea York).

ESPECIALLY HMTQ AND HER ROYAL HIGHNESSES THE DUCHESSES OF CAMBRIDGE AND CORNWALL.

I tend to think that is the solution - have unisex toilets with totally segregated cubicles and a basin area that is open to passers-by so is less likely to be a threatening space.

 

Really? I tend to think that the solution is just having boys and girls' toilets and not pandering to a highly questionable lobby. Sky News recently ran an article about "trans" people de-transitioning. Apparently a lot of autistic homosexual females convince themselves that their feelings of alienation and attraction to women are because they are trans, and have hormone therapy and surgery, but it doesn't make them feel better, because they point is that they are just gay and autistic and not trans.

I agree with Orwell. I was a "tom boy" as they called us in those days, climbing trees, loving my pen knife, making bows and arrows but as far as I was concerned then and now that is as much my rights as a little girl to do as a boy.

 

I read in the 1970s the awful time transgender people had  - I think I read a book by April Ashley but that does not remove the issue that most teenage boys think about sex all day long and would love to corner girls in the lavatories. There is no way just having a locked cubicle as a enough to protect the girls. They also make a huge mess in there and why should girls have to wade through  it all just because a tiny number of people are trans?

I also love my penknife, even now, but am most certainly a female.

The only trans person that I think is truly acceptable is Tiresias.

Make a huge mess?  Give over lyds, you’ve missed your lunchtime meds.

Clergs, is a 'swirly' what polite people would call a bog wash?

Surely the only fair if pricy solution is unisex separate mini bathrooms replete with basins etc. Plus larger ones for parent child combos. 

Plus Japanese style auto cleaning. Just to nail those “which gender makes more mess” args once and for all. 

I would love to have given some of my teachers a proper bog wash.

Judy Carter10 Oct 19 12:03

ERRRRR ORWELL, I ADORE AND REVERE OUR ROYAL FAMILY (apart from Bea York).

ESPECIALLY HMTQ AND HER ROYAL HIGHNESSES THE DUCHESSES OF CAMBRIDGE AND CORNWALL.

 

Judy - just a tip, luv, but when you do that thing in CAPS or in bold (especially when writing about the monarchy etc), you just end up looking less like Lady Diana Cooper, and more like some mad cat-woman who wears an over-sized woolly hat indoors and writes letters to the local 'paper in green ink and rants at the cucumbers in Waitrose.

Everyone knows that ostentatious royalists are very lower middle class anyway, Dux.

That may be true in the colonies but we have our own rules here.

'They also make a huge mess in there'

Any cleaner would tell you that men would be appalled at the mess in

women's loos

That is so not true, Orwell.

 

that's actually a bit LMC done good POV.  A bit sneery hiding deep insecurity.

Most PLU love the monarchy

They also make a huge mess in there and why should girls have to wade through  it

'kin 'ell Lyds I can see why you got divorced now

"Most PLU love the monarchy"

It depends which monarchy you mean. I'm a Jacobite.

Gender dysmorphia is a mental illness not a human right