PROGRAMME

We are not Americans.

Paedos

Lack of youth mental health services

Internet brainwashing proliferation

Fashion

The general demise of Western society

I don’t believe it has.

There’s a lot of noise, yes, but a few blokes wearing nail varnish and having long hair and make up, that’s just a fashion for most of them.

I do wonder if many people who now identify as trans would have simply identified as gay a decade or two ago - 

We all experimented a bit didn't we. A nice twin set and pearls. Touch of eye-liner. Passed around the sixth formers like a broken rag doll. A rite of passage. What's wrong with you man?    

If this is an actual condition independent of the social zeitgiest why has it gone from incredibly rare to so common?

It isn't independent of social zeitgiest.  Which is why treating anyone who says they are trans with immediately affirmative actions only is a dangerous thing to do.  As the Cass Interim Report confirms.

Please note TRAs call anything other than "gender-affirming care" EVIL CONVERSION THERAPY.

Part of is that children of a certain age are always looking to push boundaries so as more and more things become socially acceptable they have to find a new way of rebelling.

Wot minkie said. But as the beeb is a hostage of the populist agenda it will have to amplify this stuff. So you see how wedge issues work when the stupid people shout loudly enough. 

I agree with much on this thread.  Even if trans is a real condition for a small minority, kids today are likely just rebelling and or expressing individuality and or dealing with insecurities by the newly fashionable of thing of declaring they want be treated as a different sex.

sorry forgot seeking attention - another key driver for teenage behaviour.

They're just attention-seeking and we're just calling their bluff with all this gender-reassignment surgery. Of course we wouldn't really do that unless we were certain it wasn't just a phase. 

The problem is lots of children identifying as trans have other mental health conditions too.  It is clear from the Cass Interim Report that a high proportion are suffering from autism spectrum disorder for example.  Through trans-affirmative care these people often become entrenched and their "bluff" isn't called as Risky alludes to when they are offered medical interventions which can have lifelong effects.  Many of the detransitioners who are speaking out are disabled.

Risky! What an accolade. 

Homosexuality was 'incredibly rare' when I was going through school.  It wasn't, of course, but it wasn't as socially acceptable.  Now I note my old school has an LGBTQ+ society.  I'm sure a good number of my former school mates would have loved to have had that back in my day.

Same with gender ID and people who don't want to confirm to traditional gender stereotypes. 

So what if some kids say they are LGB trans because it's 'fashionable'?  It doesn't mean some of them aren't actually LGB more comfortable adopting another gender ID.  

Yes, society has significant issues to grapple with in terms of how to protect sex-based rights in an environment where gender stereotypes are more fluid.  And yes there's some overreach in trying to claim sex-based rights based on a gender ID, and too few safeguards around medical intervention. 

But you don't tackle all of that by trying to make it harder for kids to be comfortable in their own skin or passing it all off as a fad or attention seeking. 

Equally if every child is identified as having something wrong with them then we will breed out creativity within a few generations. Because that’s where the shouty millennial digital native “nobody can disagree with me” authoritarians are going, and their cheerleaders are, yes, handmaidens to totalitarianism. 

And what DB said.

How can I take someone seriously who thinks I'm Risky? Everyone is Risky. Risky's under the bed. What if there was no Risky and it was all just people trying to latch onto the Risky brand. How would you know the difference. Perhaps I am becoming more like Risky. Once there was a time
When my mind lay on higher things.
 

what delta said 

"But you don't tackle all of that by trying to make it harder for kids to be comfortable in their own skin or passing it all off as a fad or attention seeking." 

I am not passing it all off as a fad or attention seeking but the sheer numbers now involved suggests there must be an significant element of this which indulging too much may actually end up harming the child.

As for gay kids, yes being openly gay was far harder when I was young, but even so there were significant numbers who obviously were and, if you were friendly with them, generally were open about it -  I had several gay friends at school who were still in the closet to most of the world.   Being gay is very different from trans because it is nearly always just something you are born with, no ifs no buts, it is the way it is.  Trans seems in many cases to be a lifestyle choice.

put another way the number of gay people has not increased in the last 30 years just the number of openly gay people.   There are however kids now declaring themselves trans when it would not have even occured to them 30 years ago.

At the end of the day, though, deep down, aren't we all a little gay trans?

It's a spectrum.

"Trans seems in many cases to be a lifestyle choice."

You are entering murky waters. Are you Risky too? 

Well we all have elements of our character that may in our society be stereotyped as a characteristic of the opposite sex yes, I dont consider that being "a little bit trans" though.

good post by DB.  Thoughtful and measured.

I agree Jelly but this is rof so it is a bit out of place

Well. Quite.

Being gay is very different from trans because it is nearly always just something you are born with, no ifs no buts, it is the way it is.  Trans seems in many cases to be a lifestyle choice.

guy there was a time in recent memory when being gay was widely accepted as “a lifestyle choice” rather than something you were born with

but the key point is - who cares? there’s absolutely nothing wrong with being trans and if kids want to say they are for whatever reason or no reason at all they shouldn’t be discouraged

everything will calm down when gender self-expression of any type becomes normalised and commonplace, which is luckily the direction we seem to be heading generationally (us red states and the uk government notwithstanding)

Chill, it is true some people considered being gay a life-style choice - the difference is - that was clearly wrong on the science, you cannot consciously choose which sex you are physically attracted to.   Trans is far greyer on the science and the numbers now declaring themselves trans suggests there is an element of choice involved.

What DB said. And, surprisingly, what shooty said.

the numbers now declaring themselves trans suggests there is an element of choice involved.

really? what numbers would you be more comfortable with?

I dont have an exact figure in mind but the explosion in numbers declaring themselves trans (such that there is debate on school policy on it on flagship news programmes) suggests to me that is a zietgeisty thing rather than a natural condition for a large proportion involved

The issue whether any aspect of personality or gender or 'neurodivergence' is a matter of choice or not is the key point. And that is what the shouty stupid people do not want to understand.

In truth though I have some sympathy with your so what question?    In a hundred years we may have dropped the idea of identifying people by gender completely.    I am a bit concerned however that in the meantime quite a few kids are going to get screwed up.

Quite a few people are going to get killed.