She is my MP. She’s actually a pretty good constituency MP. I voted for her last time because of that although I’ve voted Lib Dem previously.
When she first got the seat - I think 2005 - it was a very tight contest with the Lib Dems. I think her majority was a couple of dozen or so. But that was when the LDs controlled Islington Council.
they got completely wiped out post coalition. Literally zero council seats I think. From memory Islington Council is now 45 labour and 1 Green or something like that.
so I think LDs are going to struggle even though Islington is very Remain
I’m not sure who to vote for now. I think it is a mistake of historic proportions to immediately revoke A50 as the LDs say even though I’m a remainer. Voting for Thornberry is voting for Corbyn. And the Tories are, well, the Tories (and don’t have a chance in Islington South anyway)
How do the greens fare in that boro? I assume they take a hefty slice of hand wringing hemp latte drinking metrosexual brompton riding islington hand ringers from both lab and lib
They do okay Wang but it’s not really a Green area. Heart of New Labour and all that.
I just checked - 1 Green councillor, 1 independent (I think Ex labour ) and 40 odd Labour councillors.
but traditionally the area is Lib v Lab until the post coalition wipe out
But struandirk, there is no chance that the Lib Dems would have the majority to revoke Article 50, so a vote for them is just to force a coalition governmernt of some sort, avoiding either Johnsn or Corbyn havong a majority.
BC because it will basically mean all the Brexiteer complaints about democracy being ignored and The People v The Elite etc will actually be justified.
I know the Ref was advisory etc but it really will be a big middle finger to democracy and the backlash will be vicious (as in Farage in No 10 vicious).
you can’t ignore the people who voted leave. They were wrong but their concerns need to be addressed, not just labelling them bigots and ignoring them.
Once the ref happened it had to be respected. going the EEA route would have been ideal - minimal damage to country plus referendum respected. That could have been pulled off in 2016 but is politically impossible now.
im not even that thrilled about a Second Ref - it smacks a bit too much of “you plebs got it wrong last time - now go vote again” - but in the circumstances it may be our best option especially if it is just to choose the type of exit (ie Remain is not an option).
but overall I think the ref result should be respected and the divisions caused to the country by ignoring it will be worse than the economic harm of Brexit
Stru - the "revoke A50" is only the policy if they get a majority they gain an additional 300 seats.
So you can rest assured that they won't revoke anything, even if Thornbury loses out.
The more seats they have, the greater their power will be in a coalition govt or confidence/supply. So if you genuinely want to give voters a say on the actual deal, vote Lib Dem.
Say the Leave faction doesn’t get a large enough majority to vote through the legislation for the Withdrawal Agreement and doesn’t have enough parliamentary support to continue the discussions on the future relationship.
The LibDems say that they will support Jeremy if and only if it is and until to revoke Art 50. The SNP similarly offer support on condition of indyref2.
My big problem with the LDs position on revoking without a referendum is not that they will, they won’t get a majority. It is that by adopting this stance they tacitly accept that a parliamentary majority gives a party a mandate to do anything in its manifesto without dilution even if it obtains far less than 50 per cent of the votes and even on a subject that may divide the parties own voters. LD will come to regret their stance when Johnson uses the same argument to deliver a bone hard Brexit on the basis of a small majority won on far less than 50 per cent of the vote and still less of those actually in favour of such a thing
you can’t ignore the people who voted leave. They were wrong but their concerns need to be addressed, not just labelling them bigots and ignoring them.
They have not been and are not being ignored. Their concerns have been front and centre of the political agenda for the last 3.5 years, to the exclusion of everything else. Their concerns have been called "the will of the people".
It is people who voted to remain who have been are are being ignored.
parliament is sovereign. if a party gets 50% plus seats, tough
what the lib “not” dems day won’t make a ha’penny of difference to how the tozzas justify brexit - if they get a maj, they get a maj and can do what they like. don’t hate the players, hate the game
Good groundwork for kicking the can down the road ...
sarah smith (@BBCsarahsmith)
Seems to be some confusion in Labour about whether they would allow indyref2. Corbyn says not in the first term of a Labour Govt. Aides clarify this could change if the SNP win Scottish Parliament elections in 2021
Just to confirm the message from the posters above who said that Thornbury is awful. She is absolutely blo0dy awful.
Smug, partisan, ignorant, blinkered and absolutely loathes actual working people as opposed to idealised abstraction on a like “the disadvantaged” or “immigrants”.
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She is my MP. She’s actually a pretty good constituency MP. I voted for her last time because of that although I’ve voted Lib Dem previously.
When she first got the seat - I think 2005 - it was a very tight contest with the Lib Dems. I think her majority was a couple of dozen or so. But that was when the LDs controlled Islington Council.
they got completely wiped out post coalition. Literally zero council seats I think. From memory Islington Council is now 45 labour and 1 Green or something like that.
so I think LDs are going to struggle even though Islington is very Remain
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Hope so,she is dreadful
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I’m not sure who to vote for now. I think it is a mistake of historic proportions to immediately revoke A50 as the LDs say even though I’m a remainer. Voting for Thornberry is voting for Corbyn. And the Tories are, well, the Tories (and don’t have a chance in Islington South anyway)
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How do the greens fare in that boro? I assume they take a hefty slice of hand wringing hemp latte drinking metrosexual brompton riding islington hand ringers from both lab and lib
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Thornberry will win no question though majority likely to be reduced quite a bit.
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She is f*cking dreadful. But it's Islington so a red rosette on a pig would win there.
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They do okay Wang but it’s not really a Green area. Heart of New Labour and all that.
I just checked - 1 Green councillor, 1 independent (I think Ex labour ) and 40 odd Labour councillors.
but traditionally the area is Lib v Lab until the post coalition wipe out
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Do you mean... Lady Nugee
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Be interested in your thinking on that, stru, if you'd care to expand. No worries if not.
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But struandirk, there is no chance that the Lib Dems would have the majority to revoke Article 50, so a vote for them is just to force a coalition governmernt of some sort, avoiding either Johnsn or Corbyn havong a majority.
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BC because it will basically mean all the Brexiteer complaints about democracy being ignored and The People v The Elite etc will actually be justified.
I know the Ref was advisory etc but it really will be a big middle finger to democracy and the backlash will be vicious (as in Farage in No 10 vicious).
you can’t ignore the people who voted leave. They were wrong but their concerns need to be addressed, not just labelling them bigots and ignoring them.
Once the ref happened it had to be respected. going the EEA route would have been ideal - minimal damage to country plus referendum respected. That could have been pulled off in 2016 but is politically impossible now.
im not even that thrilled about a Second Ref - it smacks a bit too much of “you plebs got it wrong last time - now go vote again” - but in the circumstances it may be our best option especially if it is just to choose the type of exit (ie Remain is not an option).
but overall I think the ref result should be respected and the divisions caused to the country by ignoring it will be worse than the economic harm of Brexit
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That’s a fair point PP it just sticks in the craw to vote for them when I disagree so strongly with core policy
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Many thanks for that stru - for what it's worth I think you're right on all points in your 12:33.
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Stru bang on the money here.
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Totally implausible. Seats like hers - lefty London ones - are where the swing from Lab to Lib Dem will be *smallest*.
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Stru - the "revoke A50" is only the policy if they get a majority they gain an additional 300 seats.
So you can rest assured that they won't revoke anything, even if Thornbury loses out.
The more seats they have, the greater their power will be in a coalition govt or confidence/supply. So if you genuinely want to give voters a say on the actual deal, vote Lib Dem.
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Sorry- PP got their first
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*there
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Let’s look at a hypothetical.
Say the Leave faction doesn’t get a large enough majority to vote through the legislation for the Withdrawal Agreement and doesn’t have enough parliamentary support to continue the discussions on the future relationship.
The LibDems say that they will support Jeremy if and only if it is and until to revoke Art 50. The SNP similarly offer support on condition of indyref2.
What would Jeremy do if:
a. Support from LibDems alone is enough
b. Support from SNP alone is enough
c. He needs both in order to move to No. 10
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My big problem with the LDs position on revoking without a referendum is not that they will, they won’t get a majority. It is that by adopting this stance they tacitly accept that a parliamentary majority gives a party a mandate to do anything in its manifesto without dilution even if it obtains far less than 50 per cent of the votes and even on a subject that may divide the parties own voters. LD will come to regret their stance when Johnson uses the same argument to deliver a bone hard Brexit on the basis of a small majority won on far less than 50 per cent of the vote and still less of those actually in favour of such a thing
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genuinelol @ anyone worrying about the lib “not” dems supporting revoke
it’s purely a political play and as they won’t get more tha 50 seats (i reckon 30) let alone a maj it’s meaningless
they will drop this the moment someone offers a second ref for their support
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They have not been and are not being ignored. Their concerns have been front and centre of the political agenda for the last 3.5 years, to the exclusion of everything else. Their concerns have been called "the will of the people".
It is people who voted to remain who have been are are being ignored.
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rubbish argument guy
parliament is sovereign. if a party gets 50% plus seats, tough
what the lib “not” dems day won’t make a ha’penny of difference to how the tozzas justify brexit - if they get a maj, they get a maj and can do what they like. don’t hate the players, hate the game
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Ah!
Good groundwork for kicking the can down the road ...
sarah smith (@BBCsarahsmith)
Seems to be some confusion in Labour about whether they would allow indyref2. Corbyn says not in the first term of a Labour Govt. Aides clarify this could change if the SNP win Scottish Parliament elections in 2021
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Just to confirm the message from the posters above who said that Thornbury is awful. She is absolutely blo0dy awful.
Smug, partisan, ignorant, blinkered and absolutely loathes actual working people as opposed to idealised abstraction on a like “the disadvantaged” or “immigrants”.
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I think she is one of the stronger members of the Shadow Cabinet so I hope this is fake news...
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What;s the postal vote count like in Islington? 140%? 150%?
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