this is the hopeful viewpoint in contrast to my cynical thread
I hope you are right as it will be good for UK and quite extraordinary for her and she will be feted as the only one who saw it right and had the resilience to push on. She will close out the Conservative schism, maintain the Union and defeat Labour. But that is like hoping the Titanic somehow manages to stay afloat and makes it to New York with all passengers accounted for. La la.
struggling to make that metaphor work but I think you're saying that TMPM should have just said "screw you muthafuka" to the Mogg and the oohjeremycorbyn and the Barnier rather than all this silly attempted negotiation
TMPM has a very bad hand. So far, she has played it with a ruthless determination to hold the Conservative party together, whatever the cost to the nation and its citizens might be.
I find it hard to admire this. And I am a fairly strict One Nation Tory.
"Most culpable, once again, is the prime minister. If our jaws weren’t already slackened to numbness by the last 30 months, they should have hit the floor at this latest performance. Theresa May had repeated endlessly, and for weeks, that her deal was the only deal on offer. Yet there she was, standing at the despatch box urging MPs to vote for an amendment that trashes that very same deal. The Brady amendment, which passed by 16 votes, demands what May had constantly said, up until yesterday morning, was impossible: the replacement of the Northern Irish backstop with “alternative arrangements”. It’s an extraordinary thing, this ability of May’s: she somehow manages to combine grinding intransigence with a willingness to perform the most brazen U-turns."
TMPM has now overtaken DC as the worst prime minster in history, not only for her incompetence and duplicity but for at a time of national crisis deciding to put party before country. History will condemn her: worse than Eden, worse than Chamberlain.
She is not worse than Cameron. She is terrible but Cameron is the architect of this shit filled footlong sub that we are all being forced to take a bite from.
TMPM has a very bad hand. So far, she has played it with a ruthless determination to hold the Conservative party together, whatever the cost to the nation and its citizens might be.
I find it hard to admire this. And I am a fairly strict One Nation Tory.
I find it hard to admire too. She has been dealt a bad hand, yes, but she has played her game in a way that is guaranteed to negatively impact the negotiations. Even yesterday she managed this.
Let's recap. What she has done in Parliament is to get the Tory MPs (minus a handful) to vote in an aligned way, for something that is an aspiration but NOT on offer from the other party to the negotiations. There will not be an amendment to the Withdrawal Agreement to the effect voted for yesterday in respect of the backstop. All the MPs are saying "great, we've voted for what we want, so that's good" but what they want is not what the EU member states are going to agree to.
But - and here is the big point - even in this process she has diminished her prospects (slim though they already were) of achieving any bargaining power which might have made the EU reflect and amend its position on the backstop. What might persuade the EU to shift on backstop could be the real risk of the UK Parliament accepting that a no deal Brexit was acceptable. This presents risk to the EU and they don't want it as it will be financially disadvantageous and also cause other member states to look at the UK's subsequent progress and could fracture the union further. But Parliament voted for the amendment yesterday that reduces the "threat value" of a no-agreement Brexit because it made clear that it didn't want no deal. so even that's been fooked up. Now she goes into bat on a hopeless negotiation with no pressure point at all. EU has all the aces. She has all the jokers.
The idea that "no deal" has threat value is ridiculous. We know, the EU knows and the EU knows we know that no deal is a far bigger threat to the UK then the EU. Yes it will harm the EU, but it will utterly fvck the UK from here to kingdom come. We come back to the problem that was evident in 2016 despite what deluded fvckwits like Davis and Fox said, the EU holds by far the strongest hand).
yes of course. But in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
There is no real value, but it is the only remaining angle. Sorry, up until last night it was the only remaining angle of argument, pisspoor though it was. It was a point which could be made in order to cast a little uncertainty into the discussion. As I say, the EU has all the aces.
GC... will f. the UK, but no deal will also f. the EU and precipitate a global financial crisis. It's not just our little island that will be affected.
I'm also becoming increasingly convinced that the main body of people who are pro Brexit and pro no deal are spam bots who post a LOT all over the internet.
She ran an opportunistic, greedy, and entirely unnecessary GE and then managed to single-handedly trash her majority by making the entire thing a display of her frankly stunning mediocrity.
Her continued position as PM is simply the result of no-one, including her majesty's opposition, wanting to take the reins until she has fully munched down the shit sandwich she has in no small part created.
0
0
If she pulls this Cameron clusterfcuk off, she's got a job for life
0
0
Interesting
this is the hopeful viewpoint in contrast to my cynical thread
I hope you are right as it will be good for UK and quite extraordinary for her and she will be feted as the only one who saw it right and had the resilience to push on. She will close out the Conservative schism, maintain the Union and defeat Labour. But that is like hoping the Titanic somehow manages to stay afloat and makes it to New York with all passengers accounted for. La la.
0
0
Had the skipper on the Titanic gone straight ahead into the iceberg, it would have been ok, because the bow was reinforced for collisions
By trying to avoid , it hit the side, which wasn't
0
0
struggling to make that metaphor work but I think you're saying that TMPM should have just said "screw you muthafuka" to the Mogg and the oohjeremycorbyn and the Barnier rather than all this silly attempted negotiation
0
0
so, this is what Conservative MPs think happened
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dltYGQ3o2bE
whereas this is what has happened
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_4hPdzATNs
0
0
She must be breaking some kind of PM record for doing things she has already categorically ruled out.
0
0
TMPM has a very bad hand. So far, she has played it with a ruthless determination to hold the Conservative party together, whatever the cost to the nation and its citizens might be.
I find it hard to admire this. And I am a fairly strict One Nation Tory.
0
0
A bad hand and a bad way of dealing with it. But very good at either bluffing, or genuinely believing what is coming out of her facehole.
0
0
bascially, what this bloke in the Gaurdian said
"Most culpable, once again, is the prime minister. If our jaws weren’t already slackened to numbness by the last 30 months, they should have hit the floor at this latest performance. Theresa May had repeated endlessly, and for weeks, that her deal was the only deal on offer. Yet there she was, standing at the despatch box urging MPs to vote for an amendment that trashes that very same deal. The Brady amendment, which passed by 16 votes, demands what May had constantly said, up until yesterday morning, was impossible: the replacement of the Northern Irish backstop with “alternative arrangements”. It’s an extraordinary thing, this ability of May’s: she somehow manages to combine grinding intransigence with a willingness to perform the most brazen U-turns."
0
0
It is the new politics. Open lying and doing total U-turns is totally unquestioned
0
0
her faith in god apparently convinces her that she is doing the right thing
like every fooking nutter in history
0
0
TMPM has now overtaken DC as the worst prime minster in history, not only for her incompetence and duplicity but for at a time of national crisis deciding to put party before country. History will condemn her: worse than Eden, worse than Chamberlain.
0
0
+1 wot GC said
0
0
She is not worse than Cameron. She is terrible but Cameron is the architect of this shit filled footlong sub that we are all being forced to take a bite from.
0
0
Dal Segno30 Jan 19 11:24
Reply|
Report
| Reply |
Report
|
TMPM has a very bad hand. So far, she has played it with a ruthless determination to hold the Conservative party together, whatever the cost to the nation and its citizens might be.
I find it hard to admire this. And I am a fairly strict One Nation Tory.
I find it hard to admire too. She has been dealt a bad hand, yes, but she has played her game in a way that is guaranteed to negatively impact the negotiations. Even yesterday she managed this.
Let's recap. What she has done in Parliament is to get the Tory MPs (minus a handful) to vote in an aligned way, for something that is an aspiration but NOT on offer from the other party to the negotiations. There will not be an amendment to the Withdrawal Agreement to the effect voted for yesterday in respect of the backstop. All the MPs are saying "great, we've voted for what we want, so that's good" but what they want is not what the EU member states are going to agree to.
But - and here is the big point - even in this process she has diminished her prospects (slim though they already were) of achieving any bargaining power which might have made the EU reflect and amend its position on the backstop. What might persuade the EU to shift on backstop could be the real risk of the UK Parliament accepting that a no deal Brexit was acceptable. This presents risk to the EU and they don't want it as it will be financially disadvantageous and also cause other member states to look at the UK's subsequent progress and could fracture the union further. But Parliament voted for the amendment yesterday that reduces the "threat value" of a no-agreement Brexit because it made clear that it didn't want no deal. so even that's been fooked up. Now she goes into bat on a hopeless negotiation with no pressure point at all. EU has all the aces. She has all the jokers.
0
0
The idea that "no deal" has threat value is ridiculous. We know, the EU knows and the EU knows we know that no deal is a far bigger threat to the UK then the EU. Yes it will harm the EU, but it will utterly fvck the UK from here to kingdom come. We come back to the problem that was evident in 2016 despite what deluded fvckwits like Davis and Fox said, the EU holds by far the strongest hand).
0
0
yes of course. But in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
There is no real value, but it is the only remaining angle. Sorry, up until last night it was the only remaining angle of argument, pisspoor though it was. It was a point which could be made in order to cast a little uncertainty into the discussion. As I say, the EU has all the aces.
0
0
GC... will f. the UK, but no deal will also f. the EU and precipitate a global financial crisis. It's not just our little island that will be affected.
I'm also becoming increasingly convinced that the main body of people who are pro Brexit and pro no deal are spam bots who post a LOT all over the internet.
0
0
DEALT A BAD HAND?
She ran an opportunistic, greedy, and entirely unnecessary GE and then managed to single-handedly trash her majority by making the entire thing a display of her frankly stunning mediocrity.
Her continued position as PM is simply the result of no-one, including her majesty's opposition, wanting to take the reins until she has fully munched down the shit sandwich she has in no small part created.
Join the discussion