You do what the US did after 9/11…..put resources into your Intelligence functions and then, when you’ve gathered information that shows with a high degree of certainty where key Hamas leaders are located, you conduct a special ops mission to kill that individual
I don’t think there should be a “ceasefire” in the sense that Israel stops trying to kill Hamas members. But the form that takes should not also include collective punishment of Palestinians who do not bear responsibility for the murder of Israeli civilians. I suspect most who talk about a “ceasefire” would think similarly
If nothing else, things like cutting off water, power and medical supplies to the civilian population are actively counterproductive and will tend to radicalise opposition to Israel. The Israeli government must know this - which raises the suspicion that this is the point. It’s easier to justify transferring the civilian population out of Gaza if you can argue that they all hate Israel anyway.
JERUSALEM (AP) — An Israeli government ministry has drafted a wartime proposal to transfer the Gaza Strip’s 2.3 million people to Egypt’s Sinai peninsula, drawing condemnation from the Palestinians and worsening tensions with Cairo.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office played down the report compiled by the Intelligence Ministry as a hypothetical exercise — a “concept paper.” But its conclusions deepened long-standing Egyptian fears that Israel wants to make Gaza into Egypt’s problem, and revived for Palestinians memories of their greatest trauma — the uprooting of hundreds of thousands of people who fled or were forced from their homes during the fighting surrounding Israel’s creation in 1948.
“We are against transfer to any place, in any form, and we consider it a red line that we will not allow to be crossed,” Nabil Abu Rudeineh, spokesman for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, said of the report. “What happened in 1948 will not be allowed to happen again.”
There needs to be a temporary ceasefire to allow humanitarian aid in. Civilians need food and water and medical supplies desperately urgently. The power and water needs to go back on. The very seriously wounded should be allowed out to Egypt in whatever numbers Egypt will take. Israel can otherwise maintain its siege so the ability of Hamas to bring in military supplies would be limited.
and you think that Israel’s actions over the last 23 days will just be forgotten by all those who lost children, parents, husbands/wives? Forgive and forget eh?
It might give a brief chance to put both leaderships in a room and tell them they're not allowed to eat or drink or even use the bathroom until they've reached an agreement.
The words of the Hamas leader are a direct result of Israel's response.
I don’t think anyone is debating whether a temporary ceasefire to allow in aid is justifiable. A permanent ceasefire is what the protestors are demanding. How in the world do you imagine you deal with Hamas without invasion/targeted bombing? Again, how does it differ from the RAF in WW2?
This chuckling, self-righteous wisdom from sofas in the UK is basically a load of pie-in-the-sky bollocks.
Wilf all more bombing does is perpetuate the situation and recruit the next generations of fighters on both sides. Like Northern Ireland this will only ever be solved to some extent by getting people in a room and beating out an agreement on borders, utility supplies, movement of goods, etc.
what will the reaction be when european governments' unquestioning support of israeli escalation sends a million refugees heading for europe
i get the instinctive desire to support israel in this but it doesn't feel like european leaders in particular are capable of thinking even slightly further down the line to where this ends up
Cruella, I have seen absolutely nothing whatsoever above which is a sensible way of dealing with Hamas other than ‘it’s Israel’s job to work that out’.
And really, ‘exceptionally limited brainpower’? Is this a playground? Nearly as pathetic as propertylawsucks telling me earlier that I live in a council flat.
if you invited Gazan people to resettle in Britain they wouldn’t all start fulminating about the fact that there are gay people in Brighton now do not be the absolute silliest of billies
regardless of whether gazan refugees would settle well in britain, it would seem a bit off to be accepting them as innocent victims fleeing persecution at the same time as supporting all the actions of the country doing the persecuting
There are still plenty of Nazis about, some of them here on rof. Not sure how many Japanese imperialists there are. Maybe a few still on random islands waiting for new orders.
Tony Judt's Postwar contains a quite interesting discussion of the extent to which Nazism survived in Germany after the war. I guess it's not surprising given the level of indoctrination - but you are right, Nazism was not "destroyed" militarily, just the ability to put it into practice.
pez vela is perhaps the biggest silly rightist idiot (and therefore the biggest silly idiot) posting on here; although the war on Palestine has given him a fair bit of competition, bringing out as it has all the fascist, islamophobe freaks
The recent rest is history podcast series on British fascism was fascinating and a recurring theme was that fascism wasn't successful in Britain because we didn't lose the great war and so weren't as angry and fücked up as ze Germans and others.
We had and still have plenty of fascists about and they're noisier than ever at the moment. Farage, Mogg, Lozza and Suella has actual power FFS.
Is it inevitable that fascism leads to Nazi type behaviour? I'd say it's bloody likely.
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It conducts military operations within the boundaries of national and international law aimed at preventing Hamas from doing so, obviously.
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By not bombing and killing children would be a start.
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UN peacekeepers would keep peace on both sides
So if hamas attacked, they'd get fooked up
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You do what the US did after 9/11…..put resources into your Intelligence functions and then, when you’ve gathered information that shows with a high degree of certainty where key Hamas leaders are located, you conduct a special ops mission to kill that individual
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This went well
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how do you do a ceasefire when the other side keeps sending bombs?
you can't
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can the response to 9/11 be said to be a "win" precisely...?
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Not every aspect but we were answering the OP’s question so let’s not get distracted by that
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The bits where the yanks and chums blew up civilians and as a result spawned countless new terrorists went badly.
The strategic, intelligence led precision drone strikes and SpecOps assassinations / captures were more effective.
HTH
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the response to 9/11 resulted in 7/7
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I don’t think there should be a “ceasefire” in the sense that Israel stops trying to kill Hamas members. But the form that takes should not also include collective punishment of Palestinians who do not bear responsibility for the murder of Israeli civilians. I suspect most who talk about a “ceasefire” would think similarly
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If nothing else, things like cutting off water, power and medical supplies to the civilian population are actively counterproductive and will tend to radicalise opposition to Israel. The Israeli government must know this - which raises the suspicion that this is the point. It’s easier to justify transferring the civilian population out of Gaza if you can argue that they all hate Israel anyway.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-population-transfer-hamas-egypt-palestinians-refugees-5f99378c0af6aca183a90c631fa4da5a#:~:text=JERUSALEM%20(AP)%20%E2%80%94%20An%20Israeli,and%20worsening%20tensions%20with%20Cairo.
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deal with it by killing Hamas, not civilians
difficult ask? try harder
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There needs to be a temporary ceasefire to allow humanitarian aid in. Civilians need food and water and medical supplies desperately urgently. The power and water needs to go back on. The very seriously wounded should be allowed out to Egypt in whatever numbers Egypt will take. Israel can otherwise maintain its siege so the ability of Hamas to bring in military supplies would be limited.
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“the response to 9/11 resulted in 7/7“
and you think that Israel’s actions over the last 23 days will just be forgotten by all those who lost children, parents, husbands/wives? Forgive and forget eh?
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"the response to 9/11 resulted in 7/7"
Well that an terrorists hating western democracies
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It might give a brief chance to put both leaderships in a room and tell them they're not allowed to eat or drink or even use the bathroom until they've reached an agreement.
The words of the Hamas leader are a direct result of Israel's response.
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it is completely correct to state that the western response to 9/11 was causative, not exclusively ofc, of 7/7.
Only a drivel-head dissembler who thinks fact should take second place to DUH KORRECT POLITIKUL MESSAGE DUH would say otherwise.
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I don’t think anyone is debating whether a temporary ceasefire to allow in aid is justifiable. A permanent ceasefire is what the protestors are demanding. How in the world do you imagine you deal with Hamas without invasion/targeted bombing? Again, how does it differ from the RAF in WW2?
This chuckling, self-righteous wisdom from sofas in the UK is basically a load of pie-in-the-sky bollocks.
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military action against Hamas without the mass slaughter of civilians - no problem
It’s Israel’s problem to work out how to neutralise its enemies without breaching moral and legal international norms.
Everyone else plays by those rules or at least is expected to. Israel isn’t being singled out.
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Where did you get this from?
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It is not “pie in the sky bollocks” to expect Israel to avoid collective punishment of Palestinian civilians.
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Is too stupid a question to bother answering. FFS
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Wilf all more bombing does is perpetuate the situation and recruit the next generations of fighters on both sides. Like Northern Ireland this will only ever be solved to some extent by getting people in a room and beating out an agreement on borders, utility supplies, movement of goods, etc.
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Why does it have to differ from the RAF in WW2? A lot of people believe the RAF committed war crimes in WW2 especially at Dresden. They’re right.
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what will the reaction be when european governments' unquestioning support of israeli escalation sends a million refugees heading for europe
i get the instinctive desire to support israel in this but it doesn't feel like european leaders in particular are capable of thinking even slightly further down the line to where this ends up
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Why not just let the Gazans come to Britain? We need labour.
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The Geneva Conventions specifically permit civilian deaths so long as they are nor disproportionate to the military advantage.
Anyone who thinks surgical strikes are like the movies has clearly never been in an actual war.
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"So these ceasefire supporters. Explain how Israel deals with this?"
Really? Surely, even someone of your exceptionally limited brain power could have worked that one out for yourself...
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What does it say about the collective punishment of civilians?
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"UN peacekeepers would keep peace on both sides
So if hamas attacked, they'd get fooked up "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre
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Every post you make is uniquely dumber than the last one. It’s quite a feat.
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perfectly good idea
we are at least a million down from where we need to be in terms of labour supply
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Agreed, we should put them all in Brighton. It’ll be like a thunderdome.
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Cruella, I have seen absolutely nothing whatsoever above which is a sensible way of dealing with Hamas other than ‘it’s Israel’s job to work that out’.
And really, ‘exceptionally limited brainpower’? Is this a playground? Nearly as pathetic as propertylawsucks telling me earlier that I live in a council flat.
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Most Gazans absolutelt would not give a crap that homsexuality is legal in Britain, especially if they’d been welcomed to come here
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wilf
do u actually live in a council flat tho
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"Why does it have to differ from the RAF in WW2? A lot of people believe the RAF committed war crimes in WW2 especially at Dresden. "
Is there an "except when the bosh have got all lairy" exclusion in the geneva conv?
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5/10
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https://time.com/6326254/queering-the-map-gaza-lgbt-palestinians/
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if you invited Gazan people to resettle in Britain they wouldn’t all start fulminating about the fact that there are gay people in Brighton now do not be the absolute silliest of billies
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regardless of whether gazan refugees would settle well in britain, it would seem a bit off to be accepting them as innocent victims fleeing persecution at the same time as supporting all the actions of the country doing the persecuting
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You can't bomb and destroy an ideology.
Return Palestinian land and treat them with some dignity.
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Property law sucks may be good at property law (or not)
But their knowledge of history is very lacking
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Oh yes you can. It's what happened to Nazism and Japanese militarism. It all depends on the scale of the bombing and destruction.
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There are still plenty of Nazis about, some of them here on rof. Not sure how many Japanese imperialists there are. Maybe a few still on random islands waiting for new orders.
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Oh no you can't.
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He (Hitler) is behind you!
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No, you absolutely cannot bomb and destroy an ideology, and anyone claiming to the contrary is a moron.
Nazism still exists. Loads of people believed it after the war and many still believe it. What was destroyed was the Nazi government of Germany.
Japanese militarism was not an ideology. Japanese racial supremacist was, and still exists.
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Tony Judt's Postwar contains a quite interesting discussion of the extent to which Nazism survived in Germany after the war. I guess it's not surprising given the level of indoctrination - but you are right, Nazism was not "destroyed" militarily, just the ability to put it into practice.
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pez vela is perhaps the biggest silly rightist idiot (and therefore the biggest silly idiot) posting on here; although the war on Palestine has given him a fair bit of competition, bringing out as it has all the fascist, islamophobe freaks
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The recent rest is history podcast series on British fascism was fascinating and a recurring theme was that fascism wasn't successful in Britain because we didn't lose the great war and so weren't as angry and fücked up as ze Germans and others.
We had and still have plenty of fascists about and they're noisier than ever at the moment. Farage, Mogg, Lozza and Suella has actual power FFS.
Is it inevitable that fascism leads to Nazi type behaviour? I'd say it's bloody likely.
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