I could not deal with a third. The two little shits I've got are handful enough. They are not, to be clear, a ceaseless font of joy. They are a ceaseless font of joy, stress, amazement, anger and regret.
The problem with three is that once you're outnumbered (so have upgraded the car, got the bigger house etc) there are fewer arguments against a fourth.
I tend to the view that babies are a bit dull. Our younger is just starting to get up to stuff at eight months. Today she pulled a Happyland riding stable off a shelf onto her head.
Toddlers are great though. I never really knew what childlike insight was until my elder daughter learned to talk in sentences. It's amazing hearing someone who's highly intelligent but almost entirely free of the heuristics, assumptions and prejudices we acquire over life trying to bargain with and describe the world.
I've just watched my youngest's Xmas musical. She was a reindeer and danced with father xmas. Lots of Jazz hands. It was ace tbh.
Apart from the Camel. When #2 had that part a couple of years ago he did a walk so funny he upstaged the speaking parts and had the audience in stitches.
If you're going to do 3 just bash them out as quickly as possible together. Worst thing would be to get your life back together and then have it all disrupted again.
Still undecided about having any. Not sure I want to feel regret, but also think (don't puke) that I would love them so much if I did have them. But then I also love sleep. Tough call.
Dusty, I haven't seen any polls but I suspect the % of people without kids who regret not having them is somewhat higher that the % of people with kids who regret having them.
I don't know anyone who actually regrets having children. I'm not suggesting these people don't exist, and I'd assume the ones who do a bunk on their kids might, but actually engaged loving parents who think life would be better without them, nope.
that said I'm quite sure life without ever having them has its compensations and most childless people aren't fussed
I think it is an objectively terrible thing to be responsible for children and only fortuitous gushes of hormones make it otherwise. Any part of the body can fail and some people don't get the hormones. Yet live in a world judged by those who can't see beyond their own befuddled, subjective experience.
I also think having children is pretty selfish but I don't judge that because I am selfish just in different ways. I don't think it's a good" thing to do tho.
My youngest is only 11 months so if we did it it’d be in the next 18 months or so. Am getting too old to wait any longer (also the reason we wouldn’t go for 4). Just a bit meh at the idea of doing another year of 0-1 with no sleep and hormones etc.
My obstetrician told me a horrifying story about one of his patients who had her first, then fell pregnant 12 weeks post partum with triplets. They all survived but were born at 27 weeks so she had 4 in the same school year...
Diablo I think it pretty much is. In what other part of your life are you leaping to be an unpaid unskilled worker exposed to disease and ingratitude relentlessly for ten plus years? It's hormones. Love has value, I don't deny that, but not everyone loves their kids and I think it becomes harder to be sure that you will as they get older.
Personally I find it inexplicable that people would purport to love someone they are exposing to all the awfulness of the human experience (particularly by kid 3, cmon, no need to be an arsehole about it) but humans are excellent at cognitive dissonance.
In fairness having them in the same school year would be pretty convenient. No issues over failing to know any of the parents in the younger one(s)' year, no split site drop-offs / pickups when they are at different schools, single sports day every year, fewer plays etc.
You'd need a big car anyway for four but the only real downside (once they're all walking) vs a wider age split would seem to be the inability to hand down clothes.
Also it annoys me when smug lucky parents say things like that. It's not necessarily your fault if your children grow up to be arseholes (nor to your credit if they don't).
I think that in objective terms, making a whole other human being is about the most awesome thing ever. I mean, I’m pretty chuffed when I manage to assemble a complicated bit of flat pack, and this is way harder than that.
How have I ensured that my daughter will get a disease?
I love my daughter and I love my parents (loved in my father's case). Objectively it is completely reasonable to assume my daughter will love me when she gets older and vice versa.
Objectively most people see the human experience as a positive thing. Of course you are welcome to disagree but this may (I say may) be a product of your own subjective experiences.
If raising children was good, parents wouldn't pay £1000+ a month not to have to do it all day. It's gash but with dopamine, like all toxic relationships.
Nothing wrong with not wanting them. Just a bit bemused as to why you seem to need to turn your (perfectly legit) view into a universal objective truth, when it’s just not.
Queenie: I think you need to look up the meaning of the word nonplussed because your sentence doesn’t make sense in the slightest at 15:45... not being a pedant just saying like....
I think it's objectively true that having kids is unspeakably hard and love is what makes it bearable, TC. No? I mean if not why all the fuss about bonding etc. And love is a chemical reaction and if it doesn't happen then one is fooked from a quality of life perspective, although may be diligent enough in personality to get through it.
I think those things are universal truths?
I don't know anyone who admits to regretting it (and I suspect these things go in phases so friends who have indicated despair unspokebly have thankfully never stayed in that place) but a friend did tell me yesterday she gave her kid loads of paracetamol and ibuprofen so the nursery wouldn't notice he was sick while she and her husband went for lunch at a Michelin restaurant.
I am pretty much fine with just the one. He is 50/50 awesome fun/total fvcking nightmare. Love him to bits, obv, but I feel too old to start the rollercoaster all over again.
Fair enough, Clergs. I agree some people don't form a loving bond with their offspring. That must be pretty tough for both parent and child. I think they are the minority though. The default seems to be a deep connection, whether formed by chemicals, Stockholm syndrome or whatever.
The missus wants a third but I'm worried it will be a boy. She wants a boy, despite telling me at the 3mth scan for the newest one that she didn't want it to be a boy because it would turn out like me. :o(
And now she wants one. i don't, simply because nothing could be more perfect than my youngest. I don't want that feeling sullied.
This is despite having to play dollies going to sleep instead of flying little drones round the house or playing soldiers.
So the trick is just to buy stuff that I like/would have liked and let them find out about possible alternatives retrospectively?
Sounds a good stratagem, but i fear the youngest would just try and tuck Optimus Prime in to bed or carry him around in a Chinese-made eye-stabby pushchair.
Well kind of. I just sort of experiment and find out what they like. I fooking hate those toy pushchairs tho for the reasons you allude. Froggie major has long since grown out of hers; no way her little sister is having one. Going in the bin. I can’t remember who bought it.
Almost sliced my fooking finger off putting together a small "play pen"; the tubes one has to slot into the elbow joints are almost designed to mangle children if they come apart.
Christmas is coming and the youngest may be blessed with a new computer game, some toy drones, a bottle of fancy booze (got my eye on a nice drop of 12y/o Guatemalan rum), and/or a remote controlled car.
So the trick is just to buy stuff that I like/would have liked...?
That was my father'sview. I wasnt allowed dolls as a child because he said they were boring. So the toys I had were cars, trucks, remote controlled planes, tanks, Lego battleships, radio kits you constructed yourself, binoculars etc - all the things he wanted to play with/use himself.
Im glad he did that and I'm surprised more parents don't take that approach.
Some Peppa Pig stuff for the big one, some books - she liked factual books as well as stories, provided there are pictures in them - a bell for her balance bike, some more toy wooden railway stuff. She won’t be getting heavy stuff at christmas itself as we will be in england and anything she gets will have to be flown back. I’d like to get her more into Lego or at least Duplo. She used to quite like Duplo but has got out of it a bit. If she doesn’t like it she doesn’t like it, but I used to love lego so we’ll have a go.
I’m less on top of what we’re getting the littl’un tbh as she has lots of hand me downs
Sizz, I had something similar. I was allowed dolls, but I was also given dad's toys - trucks, farm toys, soldiers and stuff - and he gave me stuff like chemistry sets and mini tool kits.
Laz you just wrap up the older ones toys for the little one - no need to buy more stuff
and yes ofc you just buy them stuff you’re interested in - exception is peppa and paw patrol stuff which they love and I find a bit boring
and do interesting things with them too. Me and the boy go to one of the science, natural history or design museums at least once a week for this reason. We saw cars at the V&A last week which he loved, and there is an ace life on Mars exhibition at the design museum that we’ve been to a few times after Holland Park playground time. One of the best things about having kids is having an excuse to take the time to learn about stuff like that again
Yeah, have done. He quite enjoyed that. Still preferred running around though and, actually, his favourite thing seemed to be the Brio track near the downstairs cafe.
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three? too easy
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I would have loved a third tbh
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I'm very glad I didn't have a third
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Babies are a bit boring but toddlers are cool. Hard work tho.
We are contemplating a third but worried it might tip us over the edge.
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Gross and misogynist abbey. Nice
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main problem is that you can no longer man-mark
ave to switch to a zonal system
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* Installs fairy lights in 3 year old's room
* Links fairy lights to Alexa
* Teaches 3 year old how to command Alexa to switch fairy lights on
* Pure joy
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I could not deal with a third. The two little shits I've got are handful enough. They are not, to be clear, a ceaseless font of joy. They are a ceaseless font of joy, stress, amazement, anger and regret.
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Mrs ML wants a third, only because she will miss having a baby/going through pregnancy. I'm happy with two
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See I hate pregnancy and not that sold on baby stage. If they could hand me the little nipper at age 1 I’d definitely do it.
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The problem with three is that once you're outnumbered (so have upgraded the car, got the bigger house etc) there are fewer arguments against a fourth.
Stick to two.
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What obediah said
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I tend to the view that babies are a bit dull. Our younger is just starting to get up to stuff at eight months. Today she pulled a Happyland riding stable off a shelf onto her head.
Toddlers are great though. I never really knew what childlike insight was until my elder daughter learned to talk in sentences. It's amazing hearing someone who's highly intelligent but almost entirely free of the heuristics, assumptions and prejudices we acquire over life trying to bargain with and describe the world.
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my mum said to me on Monday (her birthday) that my sister and I were the best thing she had ever done.
Sucks to be my mum, I guess.
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heh!
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Maybe she takes joy from her own disappointment? The Germans take joy from other's misfortune, the Scots enjoy their own.
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I've just watched my youngest's Xmas musical. She was a reindeer and danced with father xmas. Lots of Jazz hands. It was ace tbh.
Apart from the Camel. When #2 had that part a couple of years ago he did a walk so funny he upstaged the speaking parts and had the audience in stitches.
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Mine has caused me to question so many of life's constructs with his toddler view of the world.
For example, why shouldn't one eat mashed potato for breakfast and ice cream for lunch? Saying no isn't easy when I sort of agree with him.
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"Oh Camel - I've bought you some slippers for Christmas, to hide your unsightly toe..."
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Baby Blue met Santa for the first time this weekend
We deffo want 1 more and will think about a third after that.
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Mine is ace but she is hard work. I think we will probably go for a second and then declare.
I found the baby stage really difficult. Much better now she is a toddler.
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If you're going to do 3 just bash them out as quickly as possible together. Worst thing would be to get your life back together and then have it all disrupted again.
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All of these people living in a house where the children don't outnumber the parents and considering changing that dynamic. Heh!
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Not having 3 is my favourite life decision. Had a vasectomy 4 weeks after number 2. Was encouraged to do so by a friend with 3.
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wot Bam said. WIsh I'd done so. mine are growing up too fast
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We have 3 (one set of twins).
Three under 3 wasn't fun but now it's pretty great.
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Actually we had three under 2. fook knows how we did that
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I always thought I'd have 4. Heh!
i do have 4 step children tho.
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We have a pal whose third ended up being triplets ...
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hopefully within a month or two I will no longer have to deal with nappies.
8 non-stop years of nappies.
*shudder*
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Jesus Merkz that's the stuff of nightmares
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who would allow their child to be placed on a hospital floor - rather than on their lap for a photo shoot?
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Still undecided about having any. Not sure I want to feel regret, but also think (don't puke) that I would love them so much if I did have them. But then I also love sleep. Tough call.
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Hysterical parents with a political axe to grind? Next time my kid is diagnosed with flu and tonsillitis I'm also contacting the Mirror.
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Dusty, I haven't seen any polls but I suspect the % of people without kids who regret not having them is somewhat higher that the % of people with kids who regret having them.
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I don't know anyone who actually regrets having children. I'm not suggesting these people don't exist, and I'd assume the ones who do a bunk on their kids might, but actually engaged loving parents who think life would be better without them, nope.
that said I'm quite sure life without ever having them has its compensations and most childless people aren't fussed
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What Hoolie said
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???, why do you think there's such a large boot in those things?
Hools, I know. I think Mr D would be such a great Dad. Plus our kids would be so short, we could keep them in a cupboard.
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I do feel slightly sad that I am too old for more of this sort of thing, but only very slightly. It's more I wish the OH and I had a child
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how old are you, dusty?
was completely nonplussed by the idea of having any until I turned 34 and the hormones went haywire
otherwise what hoolie said too
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When I was a child I was transported exclusively in a carry cot in the boot.
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https://www.bbc.com/news/education-43555736
I think it is an objectively terrible thing to be responsible for children and only fortuitous gushes of hormones make it otherwise. Any part of the body can fail and some people don't get the hormones. Yet live in a world judged by those who can't see beyond their own befuddled, subjective experience.
I also think having children is pretty selfish but I don't judge that because I am selfish just in different ways. I don't think it's a good" thing to do tho.
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I don't think your view is objective at all.
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My youngest is only 11 months so if we did it it’d be in the next 18 months or so. Am getting too old to wait any longer (also the reason we wouldn’t go for 4). Just a bit meh at the idea of doing another year of 0-1 with no sleep and hormones etc.
My obstetrician told me a horrifying story about one of his patients who had her first, then fell pregnant 12 weeks post partum with triplets. They all survived but were born at 27 weeks so she had 4 in the same school year...
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4 in the same year....Wow!
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Diablo I think it pretty much is. In what other part of your life are you leaping to be an unpaid unskilled worker exposed to disease and ingratitude relentlessly for ten plus years? It's hormones. Love has value, I don't deny that, but not everyone loves their kids and I think it becomes harder to be sure that you will as they get older.
Personally I find it inexplicable that people would purport to love someone they are exposing to all the awfulness of the human experience (particularly by kid 3, cmon, no need to be an arsehole about it) but humans are excellent at cognitive dissonance.
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I mean, you have ensured that your kid will get a disease and die. And you are fine with this. It makes no sense!
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Omg @ Irish quadruplets
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In fairness having them in the same school year would be pretty convenient. No issues over failing to know any of the parents in the younger one(s)' year, no split site drop-offs / pickups when they are at different schools, single sports day every year, fewer plays etc.
You'd need a big car anyway for four but the only real downside (once they're all walking) vs a wider age split would seem to be the inability to hand down clothes.
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I dunno man, it's pretty excellent (parenthood). If you've not raised aunts then there's loads of gratitude
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Your kids aren't really at the ungrateful age tbf
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Also it annoys me when smug lucky parents say things like that. It's not necessarily your fault if your children grow up to be arseholes (nor to your credit if they don't).
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I think that in objective terms, making a whole other human being is about the most awesome thing ever. I mean, I’m pretty chuffed when I manage to assemble a complicated bit of flat pack, and this is way harder than that.
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Doesn't mean you don't get to be smug.
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I think making another person is fundamentally cruel.
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An IKEA cupboard won't have a 50% chance of needing chemotherapy
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How have I ensured that my daughter will get a disease?
I love my daughter and I love my parents (loved in my father's case). Objectively it is completely reasonable to assume my daughter will love me when she gets older and vice versa.
Objectively most people see the human experience as a positive thing. Of course you are welcome to disagree but this may (I say may) be a product of your own subjective experiences.
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Queen E, I am 37. I wasn't broody at all at 34 and in the past 18 months I have had waves of broody.
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Lol at the Scottish enjoying their own misfortune
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And it's fine to think that, but it's defo not an objective truth
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(To clergs obvs)
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We stopped at two and got a puppy instead
Seems to have stopped the urge...for now
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If raising children was good, parents wouldn't pay £1000+ a month not to have to do it all day. It's gash but with dopamine, like all toxic relationships.
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Glad we had our kids youngish so me and my missus will hopefully be kid free by 50.
Love the now but looking forward to us being thick as thieves again. We still have loads of fun but spontinaity is harder to come by
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Werent you considering getting a dog the other day? Based on your opinions on this thread please don't.
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Yeah that's another thing that I find sad - losing your coupleyness. Would hate some other idiot in the nest.
I suppose 50 is quite young if you haven't reared boomerangs.
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I'm also pretty desperate for another. Male broodiness is a thing.
If anyone would like me to impregnate them, my genes and spaff are legendary.
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I won't get arrested for leaving a dog in the house while I go out to have fun tho
(I am not getting a dog)
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Yeah that was actually a few months ago - we got one. It’s fine!
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TBH venting the negatives on here helped
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i had 2 under 2. Now under pressure for number 3...
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i had 2 under 2. Now under pressure for number 3...
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Clergs does your boyfriend want kids?
Nothing wrong with not wanting them. Just a bit bemused as to why you seem to need to turn your (perfectly legit) view into a universal objective truth, when it’s just not.
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Queenie: I think you need to look up the meaning of the word nonplussed because your sentence doesn’t make sense in the slightest at 15:45... not being a pedant just saying like....
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I think it's objectively true that having kids is unspeakably hard and love is what makes it bearable, TC. No? I mean if not why all the fuss about bonding etc. And love is a chemical reaction and if it doesn't happen then one is fooked from a quality of life perspective, although may be diligent enough in personality to get through it.
I think those things are universal truths?
I don't know anyone who admits to regretting it (and I suspect these things go in phases so friends who have indicated despair unspokebly have thankfully never stayed in that place) but a friend did tell me yesterday she gave her kid loads of paracetamol and ibuprofen so the nursery wouldn't notice he was sick while she and her husband went for lunch at a Michelin restaurant.
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(he was in hospital two weeks ago with a viral chest thing)
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I am pretty much fine with just the one. He is 50/50 awesome fun/total fvcking nightmare. Love him to bits, obv, but I feel too old to start the rollercoaster all over again.
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"hopefully within a month or two I will no longer have to deal with nappies.
8 non-stop years of nappies."
Imagine all the things you can do with free hands, clubbers
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At clubbers' age, he'll be wearing nappies himself soon enough.
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Is it obv, goose? It's good that you do but I don't think it should be expected as inevitable.
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heh! @ goosey
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Fair enough, Clergs. I agree some people don't form a loving bond with their offspring. That must be pretty tough for both parent and child. I think they are the minority though. The default seems to be a deep connection, whether formed by chemicals, Stockholm syndrome or whatever.
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@abbeywell - I believe the expression is now “like a hippo’s yawn”
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The missus wants a third but I'm worried it will be a boy. She wants a boy, despite telling me at the 3mth scan for the newest one that she didn't want it to be a boy because it would turn out like me. :o(
And now she wants one. i don't, simply because nothing could be more perfect than my youngest. I don't want that feeling sullied.
This is despite having to play dollies going to sleep instead of flying little drones round the house or playing soldiers.
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I’m gonna commence drone flying with my elder daughter shortly. She’s already well into her train set.
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BTW contrary to Rhamnousia’s comments, having children isn’t unspeakably hard at all. It’s generally good fun.
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So the trick is just to buy stuff that I like/would have liked and let them find out about possible alternatives retrospectively?
Sounds a good stratagem, but i fear the youngest would just try and tuck Optimus Prime in to bed or carry him around in a Chinese-made eye-stabby pushchair.
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Well kind of. I just sort of experiment and find out what they like. I fooking hate those toy pushchairs tho for the reasons you allude. Froggie major has long since grown out of hers; no way her little sister is having one. Going in the bin. I can’t remember who bought it.
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Almost sliced my fooking finger off putting together a small "play pen"; the tubes one has to slot into the elbow joints are almost designed to mangle children if they come apart.
Christmas is coming and the youngest may be blessed with a new computer game, some toy drones, a bottle of fancy booze (got my eye on a nice drop of 12y/o Guatemalan rum), and/or a remote controlled car.
U?
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That was my father'sview. I wasnt allowed dolls as a child because he said they were boring. So the toys I had were cars, trucks, remote controlled planes, tanks, Lego battleships, radio kits you constructed yourself, binoculars etc - all the things he wanted to play with/use himself.
Im glad he did that and I'm surprised more parents don't take that approach.
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Some Peppa Pig stuff for the big one, some books - she liked factual books as well as stories, provided there are pictures in them - a bell for her balance bike, some more toy wooden railway stuff. She won’t be getting heavy stuff at christmas itself as we will be in england and anything she gets will have to be flown back. I’d like to get her more into Lego or at least Duplo. She used to quite like Duplo but has got out of it a bit. If she doesn’t like it she doesn’t like it, but I used to love lego so we’ll have a go.
I’m less on top of what we’re getting the littl’un tbh as she has lots of hand me downs
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I had Duplo and Lego as a kid. One year i got a Lego motorbike, which was awesome.
Laz, have you tried Sticklebricks as a building blocks alternative?
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i have one and it’s both hard and easy
i have heard clerg’s view and decided that it makes me want to have a further four/five just to annoy
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a third would probably kill me. they are not fun. 80% of the time its shite but the other 20% just about makes up for it.
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Currant
Bun
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Sizz, I had something similar. I was allowed dolls, but I was also given dad's toys - trucks, farm toys, soldiers and stuff - and he gave me stuff like chemistry sets and mini tool kits.
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Laz you just wrap up the older ones toys for the little one - no need to buy more stuff
and yes ofc you just buy them stuff you’re interested in - exception is peppa and paw patrol stuff which they love and I find a bit boring
and do interesting things with them too. Me and the boy go to one of the science, natural history or design museums at least once a week for this reason. We saw cars at the V&A last week which he loved, and there is an ace life on Mars exhibition at the design museum that we’ve been to a few times after Holland Park playground time. One of the best things about having kids is having an excuse to take the time to learn about stuff like that again
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If I take mine to the museum, he rarely pays any attention to the exhibits. He just wants to run around like a mentalist pretending to be a train.
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Take him to the British Transport Museum, then.
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Yeah, have done. He quite enjoyed that. Still preferred running around though and, actually, his favourite thing seemed to be the Brio track near the downstairs cafe.
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