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Reports that Israel has bombed a hospital, killing hundreds

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67119233

If they want to turn public opinion in the West against them, this is a fantastic way to do it.

The number of people killed has reached 500 following the alleged air strike on a hospital - according to the Gaza health ministry spokesman.

Meanwhile, Israeli army spokesperson says the cause of the incident not known and the army are looking into the details.

I'll hazard a guess as to the cause of the incident - you bombed the hospital.

Ignoring the BBC obsessed simpleton for a minute. 

How has Israel, with their precision weaponry, done this if not intentionally? I'm genuinely open to an explanation that makes sense. 

When they bombed trucks of civilians on the road south, that was Hamas. When the hospital mysteriously exploded, that was Hamas. School blows up? Believe it or not, Hamas too!

Any answers from sensible people who realise you can't set off a munitions cache in a location without first bombing it intentionally?

 

Could be an unstable rocket that exploded when being moved. Could be fire in a tunnel reaching the stockpile.

Could be a deliberate detonation like the truck bomb they blew in the refugee column and tried blaming on the IDF.

Could be the IDF hitting the wrong building.

The Israeli military is bombing the fook out of Gaza - but trust us, whenever anything particularly egregious and likely to be reported in the media happens, it was Hamas.

I do believe that Hamas have and will continue to commit stupid and heinous acts of violence and terrorism, even against the Palestinian people of Gaza because they are an evil death cult. That said, Israel have made clear they consider Gaza to contain no innocent people. 

Remember Russian propagandists saying that Ukraine was blowing up its own hospitals etc a year ago? 

If there's a huge stockpile of weapons in a hospital full of sick people, you just decide not to attack that stockpile. That's how not being a psycho works. 

I guess we do need to wait until the facts become clear but on the face of it this looks awful. Also inevitable. You can’t bomb the sh1t out of a crowded city without something really bad eventually happening. 

Some of these Israeli ministers sound like psychopaths. 
 

From a CNN journalist on twitter 

Israel's minister of national security, Itamar Ben-Gvir, said the only thing that should enter Gaza until the hostages are released are “hundreds of tons of explosives” from the Israeli Air Force, "not an ounce of humanitarian aid.”

I mean it’s not subtle is it? They are quite openly saying that Palestinians are collectively guilty and will be collectively punished. Their actions are completely in accordance with that.

Hamas has been storing and firing weapons from mosques and other locations supposed to be sacrosanct for a long time: Why Hamas stores its weapons inside hospitals, mosques and schools - The Washington Post 

That is the advantage the side engaging in guerrilla warfare has.  But it's only effective if the other side (that has enough striking power) chooses to give a fook.  The IDF were admittedly pretty tuglite about it before, much less now.  

Worth remembering that the V2 attacks on London, which (apparently) worked out at just two people killed per rocket, had Churchill gagging to use poison gas (aka chemical weapons aka WMD) in retaliation.  

I do think that Western politicians will come to regret statements about “unqualified support” and so on. The Israeli method is harsh and uncompromising. I don’t actually think electorates in the West are on board with this stuff at all.

Israel has

- shut off power

- shut off water

- shut off food

to 2m people. 

Now it seems they are targeting civilian infrastructure. 

They have a right to defend themselves and they have obligations under treaties they have signed to not commit war crimes. Hard things are hard. 

We'd think very differently if atrocities similar to those perpetrated by Hamas a fortnight ago happened to us.  Fortunately they haven't ... yet.  
 

Sorry but no. I would not be cheering on the bombing of a hospital by the British government.

Worth remembering that the V2 attacks on London, which (apparently) worked out at just two people killed per rocket, had Churchill gagging to use poison gas (aka chemical weapons aka WMD) in retaliation.  

Nobody would criticise Israel for wanting to commit the worst acts of revenge imaginable. Wanting to and doing are different things lad. 

old enough to have a good idea what the great British public think m44, and after Islamonutters go on a rampage that leaves over a thousand dead, it won't be singing Kumbaya...  

old enough to have a good idea what the great British public think

So if a terrorist organisation attacked us we'd blow up the hospitals and schools in the country they were hiding in with full throated support from the British public?

Chinny reckon

@deltabravo 19:26

Or, you know, could be that Israel deliberately targeted this hospital in order to destroy the weapons cache that it believes was there (I say it believes because I have no idea whether there actually was one or not).

Just like every single Israeli minister has been saying that they will do - i.e. bomb civilian targets at any civilian cost in the name of trying to catch even one Hamas target. 

Tl;dr this thread but based on other wars in your lifetime and intel quality and civilian targets and human shields and blah blah blah what do you think the likelihood is this was a gross effing avoidable crime? Pretty large I’d say. 

The BBC are now finally reporting Israel's side of the story:

"...a hospital is a highly sensitive building and is not an IDF target."

"The IDF is investigating the source of the explosion and as always is prioritising accuracy and reliability."

"We urge everyone to proceed with caution when reporting unverified claims of a terrorist organisation."

Three days ago, the Israelis issued instructions to evacuate hospitals (which they must know cannot be realistically obeyed).

https://www.who.int/news/item/14-10-2023-evacuation-orders-by-israel-to-hospitals-in-northern-gaza-are-a-death-sentence-for-the-sick-and-injured

Now a hospital has been destroyed, and we are apparently to believe that they don't intend this to happen, and they are "looking into the cause of the incident". Do they think we are fooking morons?

I very much doubt the IDF deliberately hit a hospital to be honest. Even in their current rage it would be an extraordinary thing to do with no real upside for them and a lot of downside.

I don't think they are exactly sitting around going "which piece of civilian infrastructure should we bomb next?"

I do think they are pretty indifferent to whether or not they bomb civilian infrastructure, and completely OK with dissembling about it after the fact.

Pretty certain we will know in the next few days if this war is about to set the Middle East alight. Various Western States made bold statements and gestures towards Israel which will now be viewed as endorsements to Israel’s wipe out of Gaza. A dangerous predicament unfolding. Biden arriving on the scene doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence either. 

Both sides blaming the other. Much like this board. Lots of frothing armchair generals. Calm down, the folllowing days will uncover the perpetrators. If it is israel, a curse on their house.

 

No offence but I doubt any person of sound mind will place much reliance on an IDF statement. Somebody missed the school basics of “independent verification” in history class. 

Schools, hospitals, houses etc. what’s the difference? Either way masses of innocent and vulnerable people are trapped in hell and dying whilst we watch on and snipe about who’s “more” at fault. 

I dont doubt the ability of hamas to inflict untold evil on the palestinian people to win its own ideological battle. It could be them, it is i accept more likely to be an israeli rocket in which case they must face the full force of the ICC. God this is all so horrendous feels like end times.

Superb commentator on the Beeb right now saying Biden has to say tomorrow that the hostilities must cease immediately. Oliver McTernan. Endless cycle of needless violence he calls it. Unverified facts etc etc. Israel is in trauma.

Al Jazeera's arabic live YouTube feed has some footage of militant rockets being fired and one coming down in the vicinity of the hospital. Can't link it from my phone.

Backs up the IDF claiming they tracked an Islamic Jihad launch at that time.

I also note that both these parties have no compunction at all about ramping it up. It’s almost as if not being able to avoid conflict is in their dna, 

Beyond our comprehension 

Oddly the main Al Jazeera website boldly states that Israel was responsible. 

Frankly, those invested in either side will believe their side's narrative. The rest of us just don't know.  I would say that the kind of simple home=made rockets Hamas/PIJ use is unlikely to cause such a big explosion, unless they hit large ammo dump.  This would require the Anglican hospital to at least acquiesce to such a dump on their premises, and Hamas to put a goodly % of their ammo in one place.  Not impossible, but the simplest explanation suggests an airstrike gone wrong. 

The footage of the explosion is huge. It's online. No hamas, Hezbollah rocket can inflict that kind of damage - this came from an Israeli warplane. 

When will the world finally wake up??!

I would say that the kind of simple home=made rockets Hamas/PIJ use is unlikely to cause such a big explosion, unless they hit large ammo dump

Yes, I agree. The idea that a single rocket of the kind available to Hamas has enough explosive power to destroy a hospital stretches credulity.

In fact the more I think about it the more the Hamas rocket malfunction story is BS.  The chances of such a rocket fortuitously hitting a large ammo dump hidden inside the hospital (itself a big ?) are miniscule.

In fact the more I think about it the more the Hamas rocket malfunction story is BS

People can't follow a simple thread. 

Evacuate hospitals asap

Hospital blows up

Erm

Oddly the main Al Jazeera website boldly states that Israel was responsible. 

Aye, it does.  Hard to tell.  The Arabic channel seems to like showing Hamas rockets being launched over Gaza interspersed with other footage so who knows.  Grim either way.

One theory I've seen is that Hamas/PIJ were launching rockets near (not in) the hospital and an IDF aircraft circling above launches missiles at the launchers, one of which hit the hospital by accident (possibly heat seeking and went for the hospital's generators). 

In a sense, does it really matter who caused it?  The 'arab street' clearly blames Israel and will continue to do so unless and until IDF provides compelling evidence to the contrary, and probably not even then.  

One theory I've seen is that Hamas/PIJ were launching rockets near (not in) the hospital and an IDF aircraft circling above launches missiles at the launchers, one of which hit the hospital by accident (possibly heat seeking and went for the hospital's generators). 

And the school?

It matters who killed hundreds of people in a hospital because it's a war crime and the perpetrators need to go to jail. What the fück do you mean by "does it really matter"?

"Churchill gagging to use poison gas (aka chemical weapons aka WMD) in retaliation."

Fortunately Mr Attlee was Deputy Prime Minister, and a restraining influence. 

Reports that Israel is claiming it was a Palestinian Jihad rocket meant for Israel that struck the hotel

Various posts like this. Now disproved because the timestamp on the video of outgoing rockets was 40 minutes after the attack on the hospital. 

This probably wasn't a tragic accident or a false flag guys. 

Pls deal. 

Not sure what please deal means in this context?

 

A contemporaneous post about what Sky News and Twitter were reporting is all that was posted.

 

FWIW, I do hope it was a tragic accident. I'd be surprised if there was any normal moderate person who didn't hope that was the case.

There was another Israeli journo who posted, then deleted, a 2022 video. 

BBC now saying how all Arab nations have waded in to call this Israeli, and the single missile was v powerful so unlikely to be something that Hamas has access to. 

Not sure what please deal means in this context?

Even if it isn't 100% proven that Israel bombed a hospital, the evidence is mounting that they did. Please deal means please deal with denialism. 

As I was saying on the other thread, rogue Israelis trying to derail Biden’s visit. Look, it’s going to save time if you just pay attention. Rof ribaldry you’re excused, you can go and play with the other cheeky chappies in the designated soft play area where you don’t have access to cars or booze.

OK, people might not tell the whole truth in a wartime scenario.

Consider that ground-breaking revelation sufficiently dealt with

Good retort to a totally different point. Hard to disagree. 

Cookie, why haven't you done a casual racism against Sunak since being called out recently? Good for you, but I'm wondering what changed your tune?

Are you pretending you have some effect on what’s posted on this board, rof ribaldry? Not just a soft play area you need is it? Can any of the other cheeky chappies help you out?

Some very angry Israeli general on the Today programme who seemed genuinely apoplectic that the BBc don’t just trust everything Israel says without evidence and doesn’t dismiss everything Hamas says out of hand.  He sounded almost as mad as Grant Schapps 

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