My wife’s dad passed away years before so didn’t have to make the decision.
I probably wouldn’t have. Think my wife would have liked the idea but then hated not being the second person to know about the proposal (beside me) and not being able to break the news.
I certainly wouldn’t have felt duty- or honour-bound to do so, but equally wouldn’t really have worried about being accused of being a sexist if I did.
OK, here's a question to any man who has "spoken to" or contemplated "speaking to" his prospective in laws before proposing (whether you considered it to be "asking permission" or not).
Did you run it past your own parents first? I can accept your rationale for your future wife not checking with your parents on the grounds that she didn't necessarily know the proposal was coming and it would rather kill the mood if she felt duty bound to call your parents and run it past them before saying yes.
But did you ever call or go and see your own parents and say, "hey Mum, Dad, just to give you a heads up, I'm planning on proposing to my girlfriend so all things being well she will be your future daughter in law, hope that's cool with you".
You might not care much RR, but you obviously still came to the conclusion that it wasn't the right thing to do, so well done for not being a dinosaur.
I asked them for their blessing but plainly not permission. They didn't own her and I was happy to proceed without blessings if they weren't forthcoming.
My in-laws are good but the absolute lack of critical thinking can irk the shit out of me.
Today was - we went for pizza and Jelly1 vommed last night. MiL's response was "we need to figure out what do to with this pizza problem. My friend has pizza last week and was sick for 2 days".
I asked my in laws. I know it’s archaic but I have a great relationship with both of them and I knew my wife to be wouldn’t mind. I think she appreciated the sentiments behind it.
Yes it comes from a parochial past but so does marriage and so I am of of the view that you determine what these things are not where they have come from.
I think it’s more common than you think. One brother in law did but other didn’t. No drama either way. An understanding of the people involved probably helps.
You are all such citizens of nowhere. You only seem to care about your own wants and rights. Marriage is central to communities surviving, let alone thriving
Of course I talked to my parents about marrying Delfette before I spoke to her father.
Marriage is not just about the two individuals marrying, rather it is about the couple and their families coming together as one bigger extended family. It is your families who you will need to lean on through the ups and downs, the good times and difficult times during your married life.
Without the support of both families, raising the children, managing difficult financial times, planning family events, overcoming potential health problems and family tragedies can be all the more difficult.
So, here are some considerations before embarking on the path of choosing a spouse:
Your family’s support matters. Have a conversation about what you want in a future spouse.
Be honest and be sensitive to their needs and concerns as you share your preferences.
Don’t spring a prospective spouse on your parents when you know they wanted you to marry someone from their race, culture, home town or socioeconomic background. This is never a license for racism or ethnocentrism but it is important to be sensitive and gently share what you would like in your future spouse.
Take time to discuss your preferences and obtain agreement. If your parents don’t want you to marry someone from another culture and they are very strong about that, gently work to convince them of his or her character, good nature, etc. Have a person they respect help you convince them but don’t marry until they feel good about your choice and about his or her family. This is far better than marrying someone your parents don’t want and won’t treat like family.
Remember that marriage is between two families. You may prefer to never communicate with your spouses relatives, but they still exist, and your utter selfishness may devastate their lives.
Great thread. Some classic tecco, some pathetic whattaboutery and a good deal of sense from laz, linda, stix and Anna, which isn't often a combo you'd see.
Never even occurred to me to ask the mrs' dad and like laz I can't imagine such a conversation being anything other than. Excruciating.
I am planning on asking for your daughter's hand in marriage
Oh, don't you think you should discuss it with her.
No I would like your blessing
fook off you daft twot.
Tbf the first time I met him was when we were moving into the flat we had bought.
Ps, tecco, I know that you arent a lawyer, but a chattel is movable property, ie not real property.
Admittedly there is a high degree of probability that you went all boxing Helena with one or more of your wives but as far as I know there has been no case law on whether this re-renders said possession and has to be registered on the charges register.
So, here are some considerations before embarking on the path of choosing a spouse:
Your family’s support matters. Have a conversation about what you want in a future spouse.
Be honest and be sensitive to their needs and concerns as you share your preferences.
Don’t spring a prospective spouse on your parents when you know they wanted you to marry someone from their race, culture, home town or socioeconomic background. This is never a license for racism or ethnocentrism but it is important to be sensitive and gently share what you would like in your future spouse.
Take time to discuss your preferences and obtain agreement. If your parents don’t want you to marry someone from another culture and they are very strong about that, gently work to convince them of his or her character, good nature, etc. Have a person they respect help you convince them but don’t marry until they feel good about your choice and about his or her family. This is far better than marrying someone your parents don’t want and won’t treat like family.
Remember that marriage is between two families. You may prefer to never communicate with your spouses relatives, but they still exist, and your utter selfishness may devastate their lives.
This is more than a tad weird. You seem to be suggesting both sets of parents should have a veto over who you are to marry.
I've seen enough 'arranged' marriages go wrong to know that it's best to marry for love rather than who the parents would like you to marry.
If it helps for context, me and Mrs Stamp got married very young. We’d talked about marriage early on in our relationship, so she knew it was on the cards. The way she put it was “for fooks sake ask my dad first or he’ll make our lives a misery”. Which I’m sure would have been true, especially as when he tried to micromanage our wedding we ran off and got married on our own, which he didn’t forgive me for for about 2 years.
And then we got married again in Vegas for a laugh (drive-thru wedding in a convertible Ferrari) and didn’t invite him (or anyone else) then either. Double lolz. Tempted to go for a hat-trick tbh
My wife’s dad passed away years before so didn’t have to make the decision.
Had this situation but asked the MiL instead.
Why? Because its a tradition (the same as marriage vows which have the same sexist roots).
More importantly MiL is stuck in the 1950s and I knew she would love the sentiment, and early brownie points are crucial. Wife also appreciated it (being a nod to her father) and we'd agreed MiL should be asked rather than her godfather (who got to do the terribly sexist thing of walking the bride down the aisle).
It's all just a game at the end of the day isnt it? Only person's consent that actually matters is your partner's. But not everything is about the couple, and it is nice to make others feel involved and part of what is still (to some) a special process.
U UTTER, UTTER SEXIST KHUNT, deltabravo - WHY ON EARTH DID YOU ALLOW HER GODFATHER TO DO THE ADMITTED TERRIBLY SEXIST THING OF WALKING THE BRIDE DOWN THE AISLE?!??? YOU ALL SEEM TO HAVE BEEN ABOUT MAKING IT WHAT'S RIGHT FOR YOU AS A COUPLE BUT INCLUDING THOUGHTS OF YOUR FAMILIES AND A BIT OF TRADITION AND JUST GENERALLY ENSURING ON A SUITABLY DESCENDING SCALE EVERYONE WAS GENERALLY HAPPY. FFS.
I would like my future husband to ask for my fathers blessing before he proposed to me. It would mean so much to my father. Just hope I manage to find a husband before he dies.
When my brother Holden was preparing to propose to his now wife he asked her mother for her blessing, as SIL parents are separated and she has very little contact with her father.
Imagine introducing your brother Vauxhall Ab Taffy-Clewyd.
Drove a holden commodore from Melbourne to Adelaide once. 3+ litre estate. That was their 'premium' rental option. Forget which company. Fckng horrible ride. Admittedly by opting for premium we had hoped for some sort of sporty soft top.
Fckng boring drive once you r past the not so great as the Isle of purbeck ocean Road.
Did watch Oz qualify for a world Cup in some pissant town (robe?) on the way
Ruining the engagement surprise is awful. What a twunt.
I’ve generally been lucky with all in laws. An ex’s mother did used to call me his ex’s name which was okay for a year but after 8 was becoming pretty rude. She was very strange : she had a boyfriend about a month in we were invited to meet him only to find we were at her engagement party with all the children on both sides looking completely bewildered as she flounced around the room showing off her rock.
clubbers dad is ace. Clubbers mum is great when downing champagne and with adults but I find her extremely stressful at kids mealtimes - she gives the kids enough food to feed an army and then gets stressed when they can’t eat it. I’ve had to either go into another room as I can’t handle it or clubbers tells her to go out.
Also she thinks I’m too lax on the children which is quite wearing.
my coping strategy is to give her champagne and tell her to socialise with the adults. Once kids are in bed we get on like a house on fire.
Obviously you need to talk to the father ahead of time. Gotta negotiate the number of camels and goats and so on.
But this is work for men. Dunno why the groom boy is involved in it at all tbh.
Laz, Catcher in the Rye was groundbreaking when it was released. It’s a famous fictional work by J D Salinger. How have you not even heard of it?!
re the OP, FIL is a gammony twot and very self involved. MIL is absolutely fab. My parents are stressful for Mr D. And me, actually.
re the other argument, Mr D never asked my parents’ blessing or permission. My Dad walked me down the aisle but we balanced it out by having the mums be witnesses on the certificate.
Phoebe - not for the first time - showing that she's more intelligent, sophisticated, subtle, mature, and humane than the termagant coven of usual suspects in the rof sisterhood.
This thread was like Fury at the end of his last Wilder fight. On the canvas, eyes shut and motionless, ref counting above its head and the suddenly cue the undertaker music and it has risen to fight again.
Bless you all.
Tecco is pulling on his mitts ready to tag back in.
It never even occurred to me to ask the FIL for his permission.
Which was awks because he expected me to ask
EQ fail par excellence.
Perhaps it’s not even that. It’s not that you weren’t sensitive, it’s just that you never ever consider what might be important to other people. And not random other people. Someone who is your beloved’s parent. You gave zero thought to how they might think/feel about a significant change to the life of their child.
Totally agreed. (Apart from the split infinitive, obvs ;)).
But it’s not a question of ‘automatically’, it’s whether to give any thought to others’ feelings at any time. Or just do what you want to do with zero consideration of other people.
Elfffi advocates that you shouldn't marry someone unless their family is happy with it. That's a lovely idea, but completely overlooks that some people are aunts/mad/full of crazed sky pixie ideas
so following their wishes isn't kindness, it's self debasing. No thanks.
I am not getting involved in the actual debate other than what I've already said about agreeing with the macro position of 'asking is stupid and old fashioned' whilst being totally ok with micro exceptions where appropriate.
Elfffi advocates that you shouldn't marry someone unless their family is happy with it
No. I am saying that you should carefully consider the perspectives of the various members of your family and those of your potential spouse, before taking an action that has an irreversible impact on all of you. In order to take those perspectives into account you may need to communicate so as to understand them. To not take those views into account is at a minimum boorish, and in most cases foolish, in terms of the future happiness of your spouse, and indeed yourself.
If you’ve been together a while, then the feeling either way will probably be pretty obvious. So the permission/gauging of feeling thing will be relatively moot.
Yes it comes from a parochial past but so does marriage and so I am of of the view that you determine what these things are not where they have come from.
You can start redefining marriage by keeping the good bits and ditching the sexist parochial bits. Or you can stay stuck in the past.
You are all such citizens of nowhere. You only seem to care about your own wants and rights. Marriage is central to communities surviving, let alone thriving
I don't see the link between this and asking permission.
The OP asked his father in law's permission and he clearly fooking hates him and they all have an awful relationship.
We had none of that nonsense before we got engaged but my husband and parents adore each other and it's the same for me and my in laws.
The different threads in which this chain of conversation has been travelling has produced enough material and a cast of characters for a two-season run on the BBC. Collaborate with the writers of Fleabag (though I haven't seen it,one gets the impression this would be their genre).
Don’t spring a prospective spouse on your parents when you know they wanted you to marry someone from their race, culture, home town or socioeconomic background. This is never a license for racism or ethnocentrism but it is important to be sensitive and gently share what you would like in your future spouse.
I will never find a spouse of the same milieu as above as the maternal side of my family. Not only would she then not be my type, she would be, like the female relatives that branch, a poisonous, nasty, bitter, vindictive, viscous, violent, abusive, uneducated, graceless c***.
So no. F*** off to that.
But as I said above. Plenty of material for the BBC.
Nothing mentioned on this thread is one scintilla of a scintillans scintilla as odd as the fact that we are here now doing this at this time.
The probability of life existing in any one place and time are infinitesimally low. Intelligent life, compounded.
The fact that a small subset of our species very unlikely existence (explained above) has developed certain quirky customs about marriage proposal request sequencing is several orders of magnitude down the probability gradient than intelligent life.
I could go on.
We are now in danger of a triple tunner discussing this topic.
RoFR. You are probably correct, but above those species that groom each other for ticks. But we can't choose toxic families, or particular members thereof, that we are born into. T
Further, toxic I-L's can potentially cause one to ditch a potential spouse. It's not worth it. I'm just glad to be single.
The problem with Anna et al trying to make this a sexism issue is that generally (on this thread at least) if a man does it, it's cos the woman wants him to.
Saying "well done for not being a dinosaur" is absurd. It suggests the woman had no say in the matter.
A man who refuses to ask the FiL, when the woman wants him to, "because it's sexist", is just as boorish as a man who insists when she doesn't want him to. Ok not quite but almost.
I think rather than refusing he'd be better off leaving and marrying a woman who thinks of herself as an equal partner. From a man's perspective I'd feel weirded out to be hitching myself to someone who thought they were 17 and in a Jane Austen novel.
But TBF as said above if you're doing the aisle give away speech name change stuff why not this.
I don’t know anyone who wears a hijab. If I did work with one I wouldn’t comment on it, in the same way as I wouldn’t comment on any clothes worn by a colleague
A man who refuses to ask the FiL, when the woman wants him to, "because it's sexist", is just as boorish as a man who insists when she doesn't want him to. Ok not quite but almost.
If the woman wants him to do it it's almost certainly because she knows her father wants to be asked.
He could, however, have an adult conversation with his potential wife and make a feminist case for her making her own decision and informing her father of it afterwards.
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You represent many things, Clubbers, but I don't think "rapid social change" is one of them.
Still heh-ing at the idea that something can't be sexist because some women think it's OK.
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My wife’s dad passed away years before so didn’t have to make the decision.
I probably wouldn’t have. Think my wife would have liked the idea but then hated not being the second person to know about the proposal (beside me) and not being able to break the news.
I certainly wouldn’t have felt duty- or honour-bound to do so, but equally wouldn’t really have worried about being accused of being a sexist if I did.
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OK, here's a question to any man who has "spoken to" or contemplated "speaking to" his prospective in laws before proposing (whether you considered it to be "asking permission" or not).
Did you run it past your own parents first? I can accept your rationale for your future wife not checking with your parents on the grounds that she didn't necessarily know the proposal was coming and it would rather kill the mood if she felt duty bound to call your parents and run it past them before saying yes.
But did you ever call or go and see your own parents and say, "hey Mum, Dad, just to give you a heads up, I'm planning on proposing to my girlfriend so all things being well she will be your future daughter in law, hope that's cool with you".
If not, why not?
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I love a good double tun crip fight as much as anyone, but I'm really struggling to give many fooks about this one.
On the scale of things to get really worked up about this one ranks closer to manspreading on the train than fgm or arranged/forced marriages.
I didn't ask but we called her parents to tell them before mine.
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I didn’t ask or speak to any of my fathers in law first. One of them I never even met.
Actually, in 2 of 3 cases I didn’t actually formally propose ... we were chatting about it and decided together.
And I’ve been married (this time) for 16 years so I must know best ...
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You might not care much RR, but you obviously still came to the conclusion that it wasn't the right thing to do, so well done for not being a dinosaur.
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I asked them for their blessing but plainly not permission. They didn't own her and I was happy to proceed without blessings if they weren't forthcoming.
My in-laws are good but the absolute lack of critical thinking can irk the shit out of me.
Today was - we went for pizza and Jelly1 vommed last night. MiL's response was "we need to figure out what do to with this pizza problem. My friend has pizza last week and was sick for 2 days".
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Lame thread tbf
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It was an interesting thread before it got derailed by the 'asking FiL' thing and Tec trying to make it about him, yet again.
The Phil Stamp FiL stuff was starting to look like ROF Gold.
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go read the wiki site for 'semiotics'
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clubman. is it third time lucky I hope? Ten you will be level pegging with tec. Tec you have had 3 marriages before 40, did you start at18
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I asked my in laws. I know it’s archaic but I have a great relationship with both of them and I knew my wife to be wouldn’t mind. I think she appreciated the sentiments behind it.
Yes it comes from a parochial past but so does marriage and so I am of of the view that you determine what these things are not where they have come from.
I think it’s more common than you think. One brother in law did but other didn’t. No drama either way. An understanding of the people involved probably helps.
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Been happily married to a very religious wife for over 30 years.
Didn't think of asking FIL. He didn’t expect it.
Wife would have been upset that she wasn’t the first to know...!
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You are all such citizens of nowhere. You only seem to care about your own wants and rights. Marriage is central to communities surviving, let alone thriving
Of course I talked to my parents about marrying Delfette before I spoke to her father.
Marriage is not just about the two individuals marrying, rather it is about the couple and their families coming together as one bigger extended family. It is your families who you will need to lean on through the ups and downs, the good times and difficult times during your married life.
Without the support of both families, raising the children, managing difficult financial times, planning family events, overcoming potential health problems and family tragedies can be all the more difficult.
So, here are some considerations before embarking on the path of choosing a spouse:
Remember that marriage is between two families. You may prefer to never communicate with your spouses relatives, but they still exist, and your utter selfishness may devastate their lives.
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Great thread. Some classic tecco, some pathetic whattaboutery and a good deal of sense from laz, linda, stix and Anna, which isn't often a combo you'd see.
Never even occurred to me to ask the mrs' dad and like laz I can't imagine such a conversation being anything other than. Excruciating.
I am planning on asking for your daughter's hand in marriage
Oh, don't you think you should discuss it with her.
No I would like your blessing
fook off you daft twot.
Tbf the first time I met him was when we were moving into the flat we had bought.
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Ps, tecco, I know that you arent a lawyer, but a chattel is movable property, ie not real property.
Admittedly there is a high degree of probability that you went all boxing Helena with one or more of your wives but as far as I know there has been no case law on whether this re-renders said possession and has to be registered on the charges register.
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Elffis advice seems to be geared towards the arranged marriage of two teenagers. Useful
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Heh @ boxing Helena
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Anna - your specific question about my own folks, no, but they’re a bit weird at times and I wanted it presented as a fait accompli to them.
The whole thing is massively sexist, but so is lots about marriage. I would never do it seriously, it was basically a bit of fun.
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So, here are some considerations before embarking on the path of choosing a spouse:
Remember that marriage is between two families. You may prefer to never communicate with your spouses relatives, but they still exist, and your utter selfishness may devastate their lives.
This is more than a tad weird. You seem to be suggesting both sets of parents should have a veto over who you are to marry.
I've seen enough 'arranged' marriages go wrong to know that it's best to marry for love rather than who the parents would like you to marry.
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It never even occurred to me to ask the FIL for his permission.
Which was awks because he expected me to ask and, apparently, would have said no.
Never mind, eh?
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As long as you and hubbie are happy it's all good these days, Goose.
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If it helps for context, me and Mrs Stamp got married very young. We’d talked about marriage early on in our relationship, so she knew it was on the cards. The way she put it was “for fooks sake ask my dad first or he’ll make our lives a misery”. Which I’m sure would have been true, especially as when he tried to micromanage our wedding we ran off and got married on our own, which he didn’t forgive me for for about 2 years.
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And then we got married again in Vegas for a laugh (drive-thru wedding in a convertible Ferrari) and didn’t invite him (or anyone else) then either. Double lolz. Tempted to go for a hat-trick tbh
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Also a bit miffed my Baddiel comment was ignored in favour of a cripple fight
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Had this situation but asked the MiL instead.
Why? Because its a tradition (the same as marriage vows which have the same sexist roots).
More importantly MiL is stuck in the 1950s and I knew she would love the sentiment, and early brownie points are crucial. Wife also appreciated it (being a nod to her father) and we'd agreed MiL should be asked rather than her godfather (who got to do the terribly sexist thing of walking the bride down the aisle).
It's all just a game at the end of the day isnt it? Only person's consent that actually matters is your partner's. But not everything is about the couple, and it is nice to make others feel involved and part of what is still (to some) a special process.
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U UTTER, UTTER SEXIST KHUNT, deltabravo - WHY ON EARTH DID YOU ALLOW HER GODFATHER TO DO THE ADMITTED TERRIBLY SEXIST THING OF WALKING THE BRIDE DOWN THE AISLE?!??? YOU ALL SEEM TO HAVE BEEN ABOUT MAKING IT WHAT'S RIGHT FOR YOU AS A COUPLE BUT INCLUDING THOUGHTS OF YOUR FAMILIES AND A BIT OF TRADITION AND JUST GENERALLY ENSURING ON A SUITABLY DESCENDING SCALE EVERYONE WAS GENERALLY HAPPY. FFS.
It's no better than prima nocta, tbh.
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Heh.
I'm sure your FIL is a dick Pinko, but all the same, u r one odd boy.
True to my own form, however, I think you are OK really.
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I would like my future husband to ask for my fathers blessing before he proposed to me. It would mean so much to my father. Just hope I manage to find a husband before he dies.
When my brother Holden was preparing to propose to his now wife he asked her mother for her blessing, as SIL parents are separated and she has very little contact with her father.
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why is your brother named after a recently defunct male of australian car?
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Holden Caulfield m7
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who
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Catcher in the Rye
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It’s a book about phonies, so probably not for you
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They were just vaxhaull GM in Oz no?
Imagine introducing your brother Vauxhall Ab Taffy-Clewyd.
Drove a holden commodore from Melbourne to Adelaide once. 3+ litre estate. That was their 'premium' rental option. Forget which company. Fckng horrible ride. Admittedly by opting for premium we had hoped for some sort of sporty soft top.
Fckng boring drive once you r past the not so great as the Isle of purbeck ocean Road.
Did watch Oz qualify for a world Cup in some pissant town (robe?) on the way
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Ruining the engagement surprise is awful. What a twunt.
I’ve generally been lucky with all in laws. An ex’s mother did used to call me his ex’s name which was okay for a year but after 8 was becoming pretty rude. She was very strange : she had a boyfriend about a month in we were invited to meet him only to find we were at her engagement party with all the children on both sides looking completely bewildered as she flounced around the room showing off her rock.
clubbers dad is ace. Clubbers mum is great when downing champagne and with adults but I find her extremely stressful at kids mealtimes - she gives the kids enough food to feed an army and then gets stressed when they can’t eat it. I’ve had to either go into another room as I can’t handle it or clubbers tells her to go out.
Also she thinks I’m too lax on the children which is quite wearing.
my coping strategy is to give her champagne and tell her to socialise with the adults. Once kids are in bed we get on like a house on fire.
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Is it a novel? I don't read fiction
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Holdens always seemed to be last gen Vauxhalls with big old American style engines
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Obviously you need to talk to the father ahead of time. Gotta negotiate the number of camels and goats and so on.
But this is work for men. Dunno why the groom boy is involved in it at all tbh.
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Laz, Catcher in the Rye was groundbreaking when it was released. It’s a famous fictional work by J D Salinger. How have you not even heard of it?!
re the OP, FIL is a gammony twot and very self involved. MIL is absolutely fab. My parents are stressful for Mr D. And me, actually.
re the other argument, Mr D never asked my parents’ blessing or permission. My Dad walked me down the aisle but we balanced it out by having the mums be witnesses on the certificate.
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Yes ofc I’ve heard of it m88. I haven’t read it tho
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I’ll read some fiction when I get bored of the 3500 things I enjoy doing more
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Phoebe - not for the first time - showing that she's more intelligent, sophisticated, subtle, mature, and humane than the termagant coven of usual suspects in the rof sisterhood.
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heh! Sure sure. Except when she's hoping for sly texts from the man on his honeymoon eh
bullace sliding into phoebes DMs in 3...2....1....
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“intelligent, sophisticated, subtle, mature, and humane...”
Aww, are some Fettes not fulfilling some arbitrary tick list of how you think women should behave?
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I'm wondering which of us he thinks are inhumane.
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Maybe not listening to men spout archaic bullshit is considered inhumane because they’ve always been allowed to do it up til now.
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the way some people go on you’d think there was something wrong with trying to pick up women on internet discussion fora
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I think this when I hear the phrase 'toxic masculinity'
i think 'who are women to tell men how to behave'?
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Do you know what toxic masculinity is?
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That's the one Lynx brought out after 'Africa' but before 'Molten Java', isn't it?
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"the way some people go on you’d think there was something wrong with trying to pick up women on internet discussion fora"
no there isn't. I'm just hehing @ the transparent 'you're not like the other girls' tone of bullaces post
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This thread was like Fury at the end of his last Wilder fight. On the canvas, eyes shut and motionless, ref counting above its head and the suddenly cue the undertaker music and it has risen to fight again.
Bless you all.
Tecco is pulling on his mitts ready to tag back in.
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heh @ BC
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It never even occurred to me to ask the FIL for his permission.
Which was awks because he expected me to ask
EQ fail par excellence.
Perhaps it’s not even that. It’s not that you weren’t sensitive, it’s just that you never ever consider what might be important to other people. And not random other people. Someone who is your beloved’s parent. You gave zero thought to how they might think/feel about a significant change to the life of their child.
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There is no reason to automatically indulge the feelz of other people
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Totally agreed. (Apart from the split infinitive, obvs ;)).
But it’s not a question of ‘automatically’, it’s whether to give any thought to others’ feelings at any time. Or just do what you want to do with zero consideration of other people.
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“There is no reason to automatically indulge the feelz of other people”
No, and no obligation to do so at all. But consistently doing so is one thing that demarcates kind people from not kind people.
Be a kind person wherever possible, that’s my advice.
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Asking the father's permission to marry his daughter is not a kindness, and nor is it polite. It's patronising and daft.
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I patronise my daft FIL all the time. I'm also very kind to him because he is ancient.
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Patronising to your wife, as well you know.
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Elfffi advocates that you shouldn't marry someone unless their family is happy with it. That's a lovely idea, but completely overlooks that some people are aunts/mad/full of crazed sky pixie ideas
so following their wishes isn't kindness, it's self debasing. No thanks.
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Hey, the thread that would not die!
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Yes I was making a bad joke stixta.
I am not getting involved in the actual debate other than what I've already said about agreeing with the macro position of 'asking is stupid and old fashioned' whilst being totally ok with micro exceptions where appropriate.
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Oh right, sorry.
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Elfffi advocates that you shouldn't marry someone unless their family is happy with it
No. I am saying that you should carefully consider the perspectives of the various members of your family and those of your potential spouse, before taking an action that has an irreversible impact on all of you. In order to take those perspectives into account you may need to communicate so as to understand them. To not take those views into account is at a minimum boorish, and in most cases foolish, in terms of the future happiness of your spouse, and indeed yourself.
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If you’ve been together a while, then the feeling either way will probably be pretty obvious. So the permission/gauging of feeling thing will be relatively moot.
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What dusty says for feelings, indeed gropings and ‘copping a feel’, between the couple.
But it is hard to see how feelings of in-laws are ‘obvious’ if they have not even been met.
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You can start redefining marriage by keeping the good bits and ditching the sexist parochial bits. Or you can stay stuck in the past.
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I don't see the link between this and asking permission.
The OP asked his father in law's permission and he clearly fooking hates him and they all have an awful relationship.
We had none of that nonsense before we got engaged but my husband and parents adore each other and it's the same for me and my in laws.
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Imagine being so intolerant that you can't imagine that other people prefer to live their lives very slightly differently to you.
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It's not about how people live their lives, it's about whether people choose to observe a particular old fashioned and sexist tradition.
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The different threads in which this chain of conversation has been travelling has produced enough material and a cast of characters for a two-season run on the BBC. Collaborate with the writers of Fleabag (though I haven't seen it,one gets the impression this would be their genre).
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The whole concept of proposals is a bit odd. "Maybe he'll propose this year!" Leanne you're 34 maybe just discuss it then do it?
But TBF among my friends it's the girls who love it so I guess I feel each to their own.
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Does Leanne know this is a leap year?
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I was just about to say!! Is it the law that men have to say yes if you ask ?
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NVTL, Elfffi's counsel is a bit weird.
For example:
Don’t spring a prospective spouse on your parents when you know they wanted you to marry someone from their race, culture, home town or socioeconomic background. This is never a license for racism or ethnocentrism but it is important to be sensitive and gently share what you would like in your future spouse.
I will never find a spouse of the same milieu as above as the maternal side of my family. Not only would she then not be my type, she would be, like the female relatives that branch, a poisonous, nasty, bitter, vindictive, viscous, violent, abusive, uneducated, graceless c***.
So no. F*** off to that.
But as I said above. Plenty of material for the BBC.
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*vicious
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I think the idea of caring that much what extended family think is creepy and oppressive. fook them!
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Nothing mentioned on this thread is one scintilla of a scintillans scintilla as odd as the fact that we are here now doing this at this time.
The probability of life existing in any one place and time are infinitesimally low. Intelligent life, compounded.
The fact that a small subset of our species very unlikely existence (explained above) has developed certain quirky customs about marriage proposal request sequencing is several orders of magnitude down the probability gradient than intelligent life.
I could go on.
We are now in danger of a triple tunner discussing this topic.
I love it.
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I was just thinking about how rof is a metaphor for Western civilization.
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RoFR. You are probably correct, but above those species that groom each other for ticks. But we can't choose toxic families, or particular members thereof, that we are born into. T
Further, toxic I-L's can potentially cause one to ditch a potential spouse. It's not worth it. I'm just glad to be single.
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SJ, I love you but I literally have no idea what most of what you just said means.
I too am glad you are single.
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Elfffi is Lady Catherine de Burgh AICM £5
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Well, RoFR the person one finds for life is the one that understands the other and vice-versa.
And one is not likely to find anyone when one posts to RoF on Saturday night. Self included.
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Heh that's exactly how I found my OH
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Is that in response to...
Just kidding obvs.
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Are you watching us
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An educated guess. As clergs likes to remind me. We are all primates.
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The problem with Anna et al trying to make this a sexism issue is that generally (on this thread at least) if a man does it, it's cos the woman wants him to.
Saying "well done for not being a dinosaur" is absurd. It suggests the woman had no say in the matter.
A man who refuses to ask the FiL, when the woman wants him to, "because it's sexist", is just as boorish as a man who insists when she doesn't want him to. Ok not quite but almost.
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I think rather than refusing he'd be better off leaving and marrying a woman who thinks of herself as an equal partner. From a man's perspective I'd feel weirded out to be hitching myself to someone who thought they were 17 and in a Jane Austen novel.
But TBF as said above if you're doing the aisle give away speech name change stuff why not this.
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My only motivation to change my name is to troll OH's first wife
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Do any of you ladies work with women who wear a hijab?
do you badger them all day long about their placid acceptance of the patriarchy?
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I don’t know anyone who wears a hijab. If I did work with one I wouldn’t comment on it, in the same way as I wouldn’t comment on any clothes worn by a colleague
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If the woman wants him to do it it's almost certainly because she knows her father wants to be asked.
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What should the self respecting man do in this situation then?
Future spouse who he loves and adores fully expects silly but harmless tradition to be upheld.
I would play along in that instance. Like I mouth the words to hymns.
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I think rather than refusing he'd be better off leaving and marrying a woman who thinks of herself as an equal partner.
Narrator:
They have been happily married for 23 years
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so how is the weekend going pinkers?
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By the time he's in this situation it's probably too late to marry someone with enough nouse to stand up to her dinosaur of a father, isn't it?
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He could, however, have an adult conversation with his potential wife and make a feminist case for her making her own decision and informing her father of it afterwards.
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