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Face Masks: Yay or Nay, and why?

Just so I don’t have to search through all the threads.  
 

Are you for or against and why? 
 

Quite frankly, I don’t care if I have to wear one if that makes others feel more comfortable to get out and about (many still will be too scared) and there being even a scintilla of truth in the fact that it minimises the risk of me passing the virus on to some vulnerable individual. To be honest, it will be the one way systems and queuing in shops that will put me off, way before the sheer inconvenience of having to wear a mask. 

If the price of getting rid of all the moronic one way systems, dots on floors and tape everywhere is a mask, fine 

if it's masks on top of all that nonsense, I'm not going in shops. I didn't enjoy shopping as a leisure activity anyway (a few nice stores excepted but if I went to them I went, shopped and left; I have never been someone to spend Saturday afternoon window shopping).

Not bothered. If me wearing one makes someone else feel ok about going outside then fair enough. 

What I can't be arsed with is the panicked faces if my kids go within 50ft of an old person. Fuck that. If you're so scared of people don't leave your fucking house 

I'm not bothered.  Very rarely go shopping for anything more than necessities and it's really not a hardship to pop a mask on for the ten minutes I'm in somewhere then take it off when I'm back outside.  Most of my coats have already got disposable masks in the pockets in case I needed one and there's a further stash in my car.

Nay:

they are a constant reminder of THE DISEASE and the fact that our lives have been ruined

they won't make anyone except fannies feel safer and fannies are still freaking out at home anyway (besides which I think people that stupid need a bit of scaring)

there's no evidence they work - the WHO admitted the committee that was reviewing the evidence wasn't going to recommend them but did so after intense political lobbying. even bojo and nicola have said "it's just a little extra, just in case it works)

they are uncomfortable and they might actually be bad for you

I have to say my relationship with passing dogs and small children has improved immeasurably as we bond over not being neurotic

a puppy sat on my knee yesterday and it was AMAZING

I've had many an altercation as a result of that Hools. If a country path is 1m wide where the fuck do you expect my kids to go. 

 

If you're so fucking scared and at risk don't leave your house / walk along a narrow fucking path. 

and honestly if someone else requires my discomfort for them to feel comfort, why should they win out? fuck that

*handles tins of tomatoes then puts them back*

I've not had anyone have a problem with me walking past them on a path for over a month.  On Saturday in Tunbridge Wells everyone was using old narrow pavements as usual and squeezing past people sitting outside cafes with no problems.  Same in south west London.

Ofc they fuckkng work. Its a respiratory disease so anythingthat puts a barrier between kne respiratory system and nothet is goong to work. You dont need to be a fucking scientist to see that. Wont make much odds outside but in enclosed public spaces - public transport in particular but also shops etc - they will probably have a big impact at a population level.

Whether they should be mandatory is a separate question. Certainly anyone responsible should try to wear one in enclosed spaces anyway.

Tbh I think the crisis we face is such that they should be mandatory. A second wave may sne us back into a totally unnaffordable lock down or kil another 100k+. We have to try and stop that even though it may be unavoidable. And Unfortunately a lot of people were stupid enough to believe the govts early lies, so its probably the only way to get their use up to an decent level.

So its a reluctant yay at the moment.

Remember how we used to laugh when we were at school at those funny plague doctor masks? And how daft it was to think they would help?
 

life comes at you fast eh 

What is really interesting is that as far as I can tell nobody is properly calling the govt to account for their earlier lies.

I mean the intial guidance was obviously a lie. And the u turn effectively admits this. There has been no change in the science. The evidence was as obvious months ago as it is now. They lied because they knew they werent prepared  and there were no stocks available and probably because at the very outset the strategy was probably: “dont panic people, keep economy ticking over, herd immunity, reduced social care costs”.

Thousands are probably dead because of this.

Why is it that nobody - even their opponents - are properly calling them out on this? 

I genuinely dont understand this.

Yes, it's 100% binary. Something either works perfectly or it does not work at all.  There is definitely no way that something short of full PPE could significantly reduce a risk.  Frankly you may as well eat a still warm dead covid victims tongue if you wear anything less than a leftover space suit from the Apollo programme.  

Of course happy with masks - the tiny inconvenience is an obvious irrelevancy when compared to the need to avoid any more lockdowns.  Besides, when stupid little children like clergs have a tantrum and won't co-operate because fuck everyone else, adults have to step up and do their bit.

Buzz  I don't think it's works vs doesnt work. It's doesnt work PLUS actually creates additional hazards. BUT in the culture wars one team has won so who cares, enjoy your angular cheilitis.

What's the point of releasing lockdown if we still have to keep 6 feet apart and dress like the Lone Ranger?

We should've locked down earlier and stayed locked down for a few weeks longer.

I cba to tirawl the internet for evidence. Its self evident that they will reduce spread mainly by reducing the spread of particles from carriers. Probably some small element of reducing inhalation too.

This is why people in medical settings routinely wear them. Its why many Asian countries with a history of use were able to bring the disease under control relatively quickly.

Tbh they are so likely to be effective that, from a medical perspective, the onus really is on people to prove that they are actively increasing transmission.

Civil liberties and economic arguments are different. But on the basic “are they effective question?” I am highly confident that they are and will eventually be clearly shown to be. 
 
Why the fuck do you think even people like Trump and the Tories are caving on this issue even though they are (understandably) desperate to get us back to normal? As you have pointed out wearing the things interferes with that normality. So why are they now advocating for them? Because the scientists are telling them: “of course they fucking work; why do you think theyve been worn in medical settings for centuries”.

The study clergs linked to did not have a control sample of “no masks”. All its really doing is comparing cloth masks with surgical masks. Unsurprisingly cloth maks are not as good as surgicla masks.

"Eating their tongue would have no effect, the virus can't live on dead cells."

Um ducks... how do you think the virus jumped from the bat dinner into the person....

I have to say my relationship with passing dogs and small children has improved immeasurably as we bond over not being neurotic

This CLERGHAM CLERGHAM character has potential.

BEING MADE TO WEAR A MASK IS A TOTALITARIAN NIGHTMARE AND WORSE THAN ANYTHING ORWELL COULD HAVE IMAGINED

NEVER BEFORE IN THE HISTORY OF THIS GREAT NATION HAVE PEOPLE BEEN ASKED TO MAKE SUCH A SACRIFICE AND IT IS SIMPLY TOO MUCH

#MASKMARTYR

Why:

am asthmatic. They make me feel panicked and wheezy and I get heart palpitations and end up monstering my inhaler which then makes me a wreck the whole day

im partly deaf. I can’t really hear when people are talking in a mask, I need to lip read 

i dislike the social impact of them 

I dislike the environment impact of them - single use etc 

 

I am not particularly bothered about Covid I think it’s over blown madness 

So, OB, you aren't worried about catching Covid as an asthmatic? (FYI - I am also asthmatic, but very mild, and my GP put me on some vulnerable patients list as a result which I found totally OTT).

Nope. No more than I am about anything else or not because I will 💯 die of something at some point and I didn’t live in fear 4 months ago and I won’t live in fear now and I won’t pass fear on as a message to the kids. 

for.

there seems to be increasing evidence that it generally helps reduce the risk to all - any any reduction is a good thing.  given the current news about limited time immunity and lack of vaccine and need to get things going again that can only help. 

i note they are very popular in far eastern places that seem to be good at keeping this sort of thing in check. 

at the very least they are a good reminder to everybody to be careful etc whilst wearing them.  stops you forgetting etc.

 

so will you keep your children away from public places for fear that they develop some fear of masks?  

Asthmatics can wear masks - perhaps a bit of acclimatisation is needed to get you over the mental bump. 

Yes, because I believe they offer some protection and....I am shy and not pretty so like having my face covered. The second is a personal reason, but a reason nonetheless. 

I wear one at work on site anyway ( for years they are a partial barrier to particulates), you get used to it quickly and the cloth ones with a neoprene changeable liner are far less intrusive. 

I can’t see us going shopping with the kids - they are exempt but am waiting for the u12 ban on kids in shops to widen, which ofc creates logistics stuff, but fine 

I don’t know jelly. I’m still digesting and learning all the time. Unlocking and unpicking core values and then how to manage the kids and their physical and emotional health is difficult and completely neglected by government 

 

the linen mask is better than the scratchy medical one for the asthma and the eczema and I’m aware I have to suck it up And wear one but it doesn’t mean I have To like it or pretend to like it and believe in it or pretend to believe in it.

Yes, because I believe they offer some protection and....I am shy and not pretty so like having my face covered. The second is a personal reason, but a reason nonetheless. 

Te second reason is a reason for you to wear one, if you want to.  Nothing (ever) has been stopping you doing that.  It is not a reason to compel everyone to wear one. 

Really wang?

i am wearing one where I am being made to by the govt. I am complying. I don’t like it and I don’t agree with it. 
 

I won’t be death breath or super spreader shamed for not liking something I am actually adhering too

"Unlocking and unpicking core values" - I don't understand what that means in the context of wearing a face covering when in a shop. I'd also suggest the emotional damage from hiding your children for the next 6-12 months will be > than the "oh my gosh, mummy wore a mask".  But all kids are different.

Yeah jelly I said I don’t know and I’m trying to figure it out. 

my gut tells me:

we will end up not taking the kids Back to sains, garden centre or Brent Cross and if we need anything we’ll go solo. 
 

social time will be as is - park / friends houses outside stuff while weather good 

Maybe it will change but rn I don’t want to be in a mask for an extended time With my kids. Perhaps especially with tbe youngest  she doesn’t Have that much language so relies a lot more on body language / tone and facial expression and that’s all gone in a mask 

mask also spells danger and I don’t want the kids to be scared of things that are normal and I don’t want them to see me as being scared but also not insisting that they are protected 

 

"mask also spells danger and I don’t want the kids to be scared of things that are normal and I don’t want them to see me as being scared but also not insisting that they are protected"

If that is what your children are getting from this, then that is going to be because of you forcefully projecting your own feelings onto them.

Maybe cru. We’ve never really talked much about the virus at home. We’ve been matter of fact when necessary. 
 

they are getting a lot more of it at nursery and preschool now.

Strange one this. 

  • The science is unclear (have you noticed JVT and CW have disappeared off the face of the earth btw)
  • Big change socially
  • Any benefits for others rather than personal
  • I don't fancy the faff of wearing and carrying one

On balance tho, if it is a measure which helps avoid locking down I'll grin and bear it.

Suspect the desired impact is more social than scientific tho.  Gov wants to avoid people feeling complacent.  Not sure that's enough to justify it, but personally I will comply

If that is what your children are getting from this, then that is going to be because of you forcefully projecting your own feelings onto them.

WHAT NONSENSE!

I HAVE TOLD MY CHILDREN NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH: THAT THE EVIL CHINESE CREATED A VIRUS TO KILL US AND BILL GATES IS USING THE CHINESE VIRUS TO MAKE US GET VACCINATED IN ORDER TO PUT MIND CONTROL CHIPS INSIDE US AND TOTALITARIAN FACE MASKS WILL SUFFOCATE US AND DESTROY OUR WAY OF LIFE!!

OH AND OTHER COUNTRIES ARE ALL JEALOUS OF OUR APPARENT SUCCESS: VERY IMPORTANT THAT THEY KNOW THAT WE ARE THE BEST

Having fucked everything up so far, they’re keen to push on thru to the end of the year on the same basis, to keep everyone confused while they try to blame the EU for brexit and the slump coming. 

Face masks are the least of our worries.

I don't think enforced mask wearing will have any effect on the spread of the virus since about 99% of people will wear them incorrectly so it's all just theatre really and I am tuglite about it

On the upside it's apparently good for hay fever

But, what more is there to "talk" about, beyond doing what you can to get into (allegedly) useful habits?  At least, if you don't want to turn your children into raging neurotics before they turn 5!

You have clear issues with all this, and that's fair enough, but you have the mental and emotional resources (being an adult n all) to process them, but why would you make your children part of those issues if you don't need to, particularly now that they are mostly able to get out and about and run around and socialise again (the loss of which were going to have the greatest impact on even young children).

Whatever other considerations there may be around mask wearing : you don't like masks, fine, but if your children end up cowering in the corner, convinced that colourful mask = dangerous boogie man / woman, that will almost certainly be your doing.

And often they are not. 

at 3 he really isn’t able to articulate a lot of his bigger feelings - adults can’t so how can we / I expect him to?! 

the 17mo even less so. 

it’s my job to try and get the measure of it and make as many strong decisions as I can with nev.

TBF Cruella, it is quite hard not to pass our own fears onto kids, however hard you try.  Or at least I find that it can be hard (maybe others find it easier). 

Maybe more difficult as kids get older, because they begin to ask more questions to understand why you're taking a view on something and they are quite astute at being blagged and fobbed off.

 

 

Nor was I suggesting it was. I wear them because I believe they help, I want others to do the same. I think they should be mandated if people dont voluntary wear them. I have read a lot of the science relating to them, because I was advising on the workplace regulations and whether we should mandate them ( which we did). That decision was made on the science. The fact I dont mind them helps in me deciding to wear them, it is not the reason I believe others should wear them.

What Cru said. Change the narrative for them, OB. Why would they think that masks = danger? If anything, the point of them is to = safety or protection. It’s essentially one step further than hand washing and general hygiene - safety and protection against germs - and I’m sure they don’t think that hand washing = danger. What they take from this is in your hands so do your best not to project your anxieties onto them.

Well, that is kinda my point, and even more so now you mention how little they are (for some reason, I thought your children were a couple of years older) - pretty much everything the 17 month old, certainly, is going to take away from this, is going to come from you and his father.

And if either of your children are terrified of mask wearers / associate them with danger (which is the particular point you made that I was talking about), as opposed to, say, make believe and dressing up and spider man and PJ Masks, or whatever, that will be because that is the message that you are sending, it will probably be because YOU are terrifying them, making them afraid.

Nev and I feel the same way about face masks. 
The parents With kids same age we are friends with feel the same way about face masks.

we are complying but we don’t like it. We will avoid situations with the kids where we have to wear them. That’s manageable but not ideal.

It’s all about communication difficulties and restrictions. How odd to tell a child who loves shouting and singing and screaming  and running about that they have to cover their mouth and nose, or that they will have to when they are an adult. It’s just cruel. Or that the world they are in is one where  they will never have wholly effective communication because they won’t be able to see facial expresssion. Terrible. 

Aside from whether they're beneficial (and I strongly suspect they are):

I've been telling my young children that we're doing the right things to stop the germs spreading (hand washing, not going too close to people etc). I think this helps them understand an unusual situation, rather than causing anxiety. They know they're allowed to play with other children at nursery because the people who make the rules have decided that this is low risk.  They agree that some of the rules don't seem to make sense, but we just need to accept that sometimes!

I'll tell them that wearing masks in shops will help stop the germs from spreading, but that children don't need to wear them because we think children are less likely to catch the germs and to spread them. I'll say we're starting to wear them now because the people who make the rules have found out that they might help. People are working hard to discover which things help to control these new germs and when we learn new things we can use them.

Oh, ffs, do you hear yourselves, you are being ridiculous!  But the ridiculousness isn't just making you look a bit foolish, it is potentially creating unnecessary, long term neuroses in your children, when they have more than enough to be dealing with already?  Last time I checked, children haven't automatically been struck dumb by the act of putting on a mask, and they are are still doing the running around, and shouting and playing, now, in less than ideal circumstances, certainly, with other children and families.  And it was the prospect of the prolonged loss of that aspect of their lives which was really quite terrifying, and far more likely to have long term damaging effects on them. 

Are you really sitting your children down and telling them that "they will have to [wear masks] when they are an adult"???  Why would you do something so absurd and unnecessary (unless your child is 17, in which case, if he/she is running around screaming and shouting, you may have bigger issues to worry about).

You appear to be determined to "infect" your children with your own over-developed sensitivities about masks, instead of doing what you can to minimise their reaction to it, and given that they don't have the resources to process the information in the way that you do, that strikes me as coming very close to being "cruel".

My point was that the messaging on masks to my children at least (4 and 2) seems quite straightforward and shouldn't cause any anxiety beyond the general unease that comes from normal life being severely disrupted, no birthday parties with friends, no soft play or swimming lessons etc.

"They agree that some of the rules don't seem to make sense, but we just need to accept that sometimes!"

I think this is an awful, heartbreaking lesson to teach kids

and it's why we are all so crap as a species

but fair enogh, whatever gets you through

There was a time when they were able to play with other children in nursery but not their friends. Or cuddle nursery teachers but not family members. My four year old asks lots and lots of questions but is too young to really understand the logic of needing simple rules for enforceability, and balancing competing objectives.

At Clergham - accepting rules that don't make sense (or at least don't make sense to a small person) is unfortunately a life lesson needed to cope at school and many other circumstances. It's one I've struggled with.

I was chatting with my brother about this. He is an advertising guru.

He agreed with me. They are going to become an equivalent of the old day carry boards.

Walking advertising.

Huh if that’s at me cru that’s quite far from what I’ve said which is:

we comply, I don’t like it

ill avoid the shops with the kids if we have to wear mAsks and if they have too

that my gut feeling is that there’s something of the ick about mask wearing + kids and that I’m concerned (naturally I’m a mum) about the impact of it / all this on my (all of our) kids
 

that we don’t talk about it much at home - and that he’s been talking about it since he’s been back at nursery 

 

I don’t know how this has been misinterpreted as per your post 

Am amazed you are naive enough to think this will be a ‘temporary’ thing. Also thanks for your criticism of my parenting. I’m sure you and your children are 100pc perfect and completely unaffected by current developments. 

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