fook me you’re all asleep or crossing to the other side of the road.

RoF is not what it once was and I’m not as funny as I used to be*

I shall have to fook off.

*now you see the importance of humour to me and why sometimes I don’t keep the :-) standards up. 

Which mental illness is it? 

With some, all you can do is walk away to save yourself

Thnks for posting.  I don’t think walking away serves anybody.

By the way, I’m only awake because I dreamt I shared a house with Joe Rogan and whilst he was making toast the kitchen suddenly filled up with flies. That made me wake up. 

Anyhow, I’m by no means an expert but I can relate to some of what you say, so man hug with shoulder tap for you 

Thank you very much

I think there’s a balance between being supportive and there for them and realising that you cannot fix everything (and indeed not everything can be fixed by you or someone else). 

I think you absolutely should be there for this person but I’m not sure you can fix them and you need to find that balance - I don’t know who the person is of course but unless it is literally your children, it’s not your responsibility to fix them. Only you can decide what that balance looks like, especially in light  of all your other obligations 

Food for thought. Thank you. 

I have been going through this for the last 5 years with Young Gwenners. At times it reduced me to a state where I could hardly put together a coherent sentence. Your friends and colleagues will not understand the pressures you are going through unless they have experienced similar and some of them will give you advice which is both unhelpful and unwelcome. You have to learn to bat that away. There is no option to walk away with a child though at times I dearly wanted to. Lengthy spells in hospital provided some sort of respite though not much.

At the moment I can't think of anything else to say Mutters other than that I feel for you and to keep buggering on somehow. There is nothing else you can do.

Mutters, so sorry.

People go mad as a way of saying 'look after me better' or ' really listen to me'. They do it when/because nothing else has worked, but it has the perverse effect of disabling them from really fixing themselves. So, if you want it to be fixed,  you are stuck with intervening; and anything that works, from stopping being kind through to involuntary committal, is going to seem violent and a change in your power relationship with the person; but there is no way on from here that doesn't have a price. 

My two experiences of this - a friend, years ago, and my mother, now - were that first they felt betrayed and were furious with me, and over time came back to liking or loving me. But not the same. It is no fun, and I don't think there is any way through it without a price in some form.

Sorry again. I like GH's strategy of saying 'There's something on your nose'. 

I’m the one who suffered from mental illness. Your description, that was me. After 14 years I finally got counselling. Nearly 18 months of it. I’m not cured but I’m 95% better. Not in time to save the relationships around me but soon enough to save my life. I don’t have a solution for you. The only person who can change this is the one who’s ill. Nobody made me get help, I hit rock bottom and saw the right psychiatrist who sent me to the right counsellor. I am not clever enough to put in to words how bad it was and how good it feels to be all but free of it. Hugs etc.

Exactly what Chris said (what!), if you are to salvage anything of this for both of you, you need to be there and supportive but step right back and let the professionals / experts take over, even if that means the person spending sometime away from home so they can be "regrounded".

My very very best pal from childhood went through something similar, he gave 100% unconditional to support to her in the end even giving up his job to be a carer, we all supported him 100%. It was not enough, she broke him too. The number of time he called me of an early evening after getting back from work (in the early days) saying "listen to what I have come home too" and she was 100% screaming at him in the background about some slight thing that had happened during the day whilst he was at work and so wasn't there to sort out. Eventually she drank herself to death (38) leaving a young son (6) and him totally broken - in the "I should have done more sense". Sadly, I think he is now well on his way to drinking himself to death, most of their friends and her relations have all abandoned him which hasn't helped, he has a young son and his circle support is now very small. 

They say mental illness isn't catching, the effect it has on those closest to to it is much more pernicious than that.

Get them help and more importantly, you get help too.

BTW, she didn't start out as an alchy, she became one during her mental illness, a form of self medication for her I suppose.

You ferry them to and fro medical appointments. You don't judge. You don't get angry or try not to get angry. Over the years you recognise the circles/patterns and go through the motions. You speak to doctors, keep an eye out, stock the fridge/freezer with healthy food but you know you can't do much more. You grow apart and know there will be no return on your emotional investment so you invest less & less over time.

I believe that life only has value to the extent you enjoy it so do whatever you can to preserve the enjoyable moments. If that involves dumping them then dump them. I know mutually assured guilt makes this tough in a family dynamic but no rosettes for martyrs.

Go get some counselling mutters. Quietly at first, with her knowledge later. 

They will have a better idea of your options and the approach to take than a bunch of internet weirdos. 

Plus you can’t criticise a mad person for not getting help if you aren’t prepared to do so yourself whilst completely sane. 

While we’re all over sharing - I’ve seen it all first hand, albeit at distance with my brother. History of depression, committals and attempted suicide. Just lost it at one point, stopped going to work, stopped answering the phone / door / email and cut himself off from family altogether. Another suicide attempt and committal and he’s now kind of fine - relatively at least given he’s an unemployed 40 year old living with his mum. It’s shit, random and frankly I’m not sure there is much anyone else can do except look after themselves (in a non-Clergs way). 

Thanks - it’s not a child thank goodness. 

Why not in a clergs way?!

Mutters anyone who is dealing with a close relative or friend with mental illness has been served a shit sandwich. There is some good advice up there already about taking care of yourself first and foremost.

I found this article - an extract from a book - suggesting that some of the underlying assumptions about "treating" mental illness are fundamentally flawed, and explores other ways of dealing and coping with it. I don't know if it will shed any light on what's happening with you, but it could help:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/07/is-everything-you-think-you-know-about-depression-wrong-johann-hari-lost-connections?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR3Ye-1bKJVF4vh3yVQcLCE3yeznlORR_lFmn3wGsMbRFKG58sjrisRnmT8

Good luck x

Clergs On Happiness

Get this amazing life manual for a loved one for Xmas...

I can’t get this person to accept there is a medical issue 

I can’t get this person to accept there is a medical issue 

Yup, that's the first rule of mental issues club, never admit to anything

​​​​​​​​​​​​You might have a word with your GP who will have seen it all before. At the very least your GP will want to know you are living with/caring for someone who is unwell in this way, and will have auggestions for your welfare.

when I was struggling with parents I mentioned it to my GP and she was brilliant, I guess it hadnt occured to me she would of course have seen it a million times and much worse besides, and have some idea of the progression, and therefore what I might look out for in terms of self preservation.

stress has an amazing effect on the human body and we are all different, it can manifest in a million different ways. Raised blood  pressure is not to be ignored.

Fury being magnificent (not wrong thread, no)

https://twitter.com/julesbreach/status/1069173430589767681

Mutters I have just re-read your OP.

this loved one who is suffering - the way you describe it makes it sound like a high level of anxiety, catastrohpising to extremes.

If you have reason to think that might be the case there is a very good book on dealing with this sort of thing, maybe you could look at it yourself, see if its going to ring a bell with your loved one. It is Anxiety by Helen Kennerley. Recommended to me by GP as being something to be getting on with seeing, as how many Counsellors recommend patients read it at the outset.

First thing to do is to forgive yourself for not being able to fix it.  More difficult than it may seem.  Once you have achieved and accepted that, find out about relevant care facilities.  Then point said individual towards them.  It is not an easy or short process I'm afraid, much of life will become about th person learning to cope in spite of their issues.  It's what I'm doing now and it's a bloody pain in the arse but it is the only way forward.

Thank you Minkie, yes that’s correct according to all sources. 

Thanks Teclis for the comfort of that thought. 

I appreciate all the care and recommendations here. 

​​​​​​According to the book, the paranoia results from the extreme need to avoid disaster and it talks you through breaking down the thought processes that get you from what if to disaster planning, as well as stopping the whole cycle in its tracks.

i didnt need to read the whole book to gain benefit.

Depends how far gone someone is.  When the voices from the air conditioning system told me that the knock on my door was a gunman with an AK47 I jumped straight out the window and rang the police.  Catastrophising strategies can’t cope with strong paranoid delusions if they get to the hallucination stage.

He didnt actually have one Chris.  The delusions started small.  A garlic crush that told him he was handsome.  a nespresso machine that said he was wise and strong of shoulder.  he should have realised something was wrong when the imaginary george foreman grill told him he was well dressed.

Tecco takes 20fooking7 tablets every day to keep things under control. But everything wang said is true.  Except for everything.*

*it wasn’t a George Foreman grill it was a spatula. 

Randomly timed further message of moral support, Mutters.

I’m not pretty enough for you to want to bum tbh.  Face so ugly that train wrecks avoid it because they’re nicer to look at.

Hello, mutters.  I am sorry about your situation.  I echo what people have said above about looking after yourself; that is so important.  It is also important to [try to] keep perspective.  Good luck with seeking help.  Even just talking to an unconnected third party who has seen it all, and so much more, before will make you feel better.  And remember that this will pass.  

Thank you Kimmy.  Agreed, hence airing it here.

I’ve taken some of the suggestions and acted on them. 

in terms of perspective, I will take my mind off stuff today by seeing if the remarkably robust and  four-baller-voice endowed Geoffrey Cox QC, AG, can deal with the impossible request from his government. 

Is the anxiety derived from not having enough places to put excess toast? 

If so i have a solution 

No, got that covered. Thanks. 

Good man and good luck with it all. 

Family therapy helped with Young Gwenners. She didn't say anything in our sessions but listened intently. It was a way of us conveying to her how the situation affected us and, more importantly, how much we loved her.

Most of the drugs didn't work and sometimes made things worse. It took years to find the right combination. In fact the whole process is painfully slow and you will need great reserves of patience Mutters. I have some understanding mates who have been very kind and supportive. That and learning to live from day to day has got me thus far. The Mutt dog will help too.

All the best Mutters. ROF is a good place to vent and no doubt you will need to.

I am sorry. It sounds awful. I have not read every post above.

I would start as a lawyer by interrogation to establish facts.  The backdrop for most of us is that people who dislike their spouse just about always say they are mad wshen they aren't and women were even locked up in the Victorian era sometimes for decades for mental illness their husbands said they had just because they wanted rid of them. The Soviets used to declare people mad for the same reason. So question number 1 is has a psychiatrist made a diagnosis? i think both Mr XL and I thought the other had some mental problems. I certainly think he was depressed, threatening to kill himself in front of the children etc rather hard for him to say he wasn't not that it mattered but I suspect we would not be divorced were he sane. Or perhaps he was just bad not mad.

Let us assume yes as the post sounds caring. Next is about timing.  My siblings' patients and my father's often are not ill for life. So eg someone might get a bout of reactive dpression when their father dies and they get some therapy and possibly pills and time passes and they get over it. That is obviously something most of us can cope with. My father often saw couples for sessions - he would sometimes see the paitent and then without the spouse being present whilst they waited in the waiting room at our house then see the spouse. I think it helped.

Then the issue is if it is lifelong and you don't get on anyway (assuing spouse but could be someone else - teenagers can be hell on earth even when entirely normal, in fact that's part of being a teenager) then the question is whether the quantum of solace is so low it is not worth carrying on in the relationship whether the other person is ill or not.

Also the first post does sdound like a man's comment. Sometimes people just want someoen to liseten to them and the last thing they want is any solutions. My father who was very patient and kind decided aged 8 he would not in life lose his temper and would just take things as they came. that stood him in very good stead with our difficult mother. It served him well with his dementia too - his quiet acceptance of how things were.

I have two people with mental health issues (one old one not) and one with cancer and another chronic disease. I’ve been v careful not to identify who I’m addressing above in the OP. 

This was not a thread about your marriage or tendency towards gender bias or generalisation. Why can you not resist. 

I gave a lot of good advice above. No one has to read it. I am sorry there are so many problems. It sounds very difficult.

Jesus

Yeah I read it and there was advice, presumption, gender criticism, lots and lots of stuff about your parents etc. 

To be clear: this doesnt require tea and sympathy for the person involved. It requires a come to Jesus moment of recognition of discrepancy, willingness to accept medical assistance and then time. it’s not my view this needs solutions, it’s everyone’s including men, women and children of both genders, wider relations etc.  

over and out. No energy for this.

Gwen, your note is touching. Thank you.

Not sure I have much to add but is rof so I’ll pile in anyway. 

As blokes and as lawyers particularly it is often a fallback to try to reason your way out of the fact that whatever is being catasrophised is not actually that big a deal and/or can be fixed by doing A, B then C, effectively by rationalising one’s way out of the problem. 

It has taken me a long while to get the insight that that is not what is called for, required or well received in those situations. I don’t actually know what is called for, required or well received in those circumstances but the knowledge of what isn’t does have some value I think. 

All the best in any event.

Zero, thanks. 

I agree it doesn’t resolve the discussion to say something is not an issue. It just results in lots of justificatory blah and a dispute or a sense others don’t see it right, which is counterproductive. But I am also not sure saying ‘woah yeah this is a full on emergency - let’s email everybody!!’ is right in the round. What is needed is intervention to allow someone to see it straight for themselves.