Law firms are terrible for making people work right up until the last minute and it just seems pointless expecting someone who's already mentally left to keep working.
surely in that situation you do what you are contracted to do and maintain that level of professionalism but no more Kimmy; certainly don't put in excess extra hours if you refuse what can they really do?
Proper handover but nobody is going to keep smashing their six hours of chargeable time every day. I recall one firm where I wasn't allowed to hand anything over until my final couple of days so it all became a scramble.
At my place I have observed people on notice working the same hours as they did beforehand, which makes me think I also will as otherwise I’ll look like a khunt.
In one of my previous roles my line manager refused to tell me who I was handing over to until it was too late to do a proper handover, must have been a total clusterfvck. Notes alone and no sit down explanation of years of work.
I am trying to do a good handover; in fact, if they'd let me focus on the handover, instead of throwing new sh1t at me, this would be a doddle. I really want the person who takes over from me, to have a much better handover than when I joined - because, let's face it, half of the battle is knowing where to find information or who to get answers from.
currently halfway through a 6 month one.. Asked if a quicker exit was at all negotiable but they said no. not being passed any new work and now being excluded from team meetings and new projects (fair enough, I resigned) but 6 mths of that is a long time. quite relaxing though
when I left my last ever law job I worked at least one day every weekend of my whole notice period ...
but that was on a particular deal with a partner I liked and a client I liked and the good thing about being so busy with that was that I didn’t have much else to hand over
I knew of a senior associate who was a professional indemnity litigator at one of the big city firms, who resigned, not only did they hold him to his notice, they took all his files from him, and made him come in to the office everyday and sit there and do nothing. He was distraught .
My practice group head is one of the most spiteful you will meet - has some sort of weird mafioso approach to loyalty and if anyone suggests that they are even contemplating handing in their notice he will not speak to them again. Even to the extent of walking into their office and saying to their roomie "Joe, please tell John XYZ". mentalist.
We had a Counsel resign after he was overlooked for partnership, and the dude was put in the secretarial pod for three months to deal with originals and bibles
Heh @ people moaning about having to work their notice period when they’ve resigned but would fully expect it to be paid out if they were made redundant
One of my old bosses showed me how to do this. Work to rule from day 1 of notice. Feet on the desk, lengthy lunch, out of the door. Unless you’re taking a following fook THEM
wellington, the situation I described he would have loved to work his notice, but oh no he sat there looking at the wall for 8 hours. Matters compounded by him being excluded from all department meetings, and social events. Those 9 houts a day must have felt like double.
I'm probably being massively naïve here, but isn't the trade off that you agree to leave without getting paid for your notice period. Or if they insist that you work your notice period, just work to rule but best not to take the proverbial as the industry in fairly small and you will be done over at some stage if you take the mick.
Ebitda should have claimed constructive dismissal...
This happened at my work recently (short-server redundancy) and making people serve their notice period in that sort of scenario felt like shithousery. Even though i tell clients all day long that they’re absolutely entitled to do that with no qualms.
NB, he would have loved the chance to work to rule. He was half mad after a month. He was a huge sports fan, he did pretty much little else other than play or watch sport. When he asked why the partner, was doing it , said partner said" I am not having you sat at home whilst watching sky sports all day"
He had the last laugh, he was within 2 years divisional GC for the prof neg department of a major insurer whose spend he tells me Europe wide was about £10MM. They lost their place on the panel, and said partner is now a "commercial " litigator in a ten partner provincial firm, serves him right. What a tosser.
In my last role, I got bored halfway through the notice period and told our head that I didn't want to work anymore. He offered to give me more work, but I said I didn't really feel like being there. I was going to a client so they let me go early.
In another role, they did the making me turn up and sit in an empty room. This was in pre-internet days. It was very very tedious.
Why the fook was he working 9 hour days if he was given nothing to do? He sounds an utter weirdo.
I'd have loved that. You could spend your time writing a novel. Tell everyone you're observing their behaviours and basing characters on them. Bound to freak them out enough to send you home.
Lawyers get so paranoid about this small world stuff, it really isn't. When you see how many useless aunts still have careers after 20 years of being shit, it just can't be.
You just work to rule so that the oppressor has to have it out with you and you tell him you are no longer motivated and he can either deal with it or let you go. This has the added bonus of resulting in a terse "Rofer is leaving the firm" email rather than a cringy leaving presentation.
if it became clear to me that I was expected to sit in a room with no paper, pens or internet access I just wouldn't go in. And I would tell them it was mental.
why are so many professional people such total doormats?
Employment Judges aren’t necessarily great but most of them do grasp that if you refuse to turn up for work you don’t get paid.
You could have a crack at a constructive dismissal claim to try and get your wages for notice period plus basic award. Would have an ok chance if they have been particularly callous although not the easiest claim to bring when you’ve already resigned and have then asked to leave early. If you then start your new job early or do anything interesting (eg travel) in that time it’s going to be even harder.
Could make some noise about possibly being released from restrictions due to constructive dismissal and most law firms (and businesses) would just pay the notice pay under a COT3. Unfortunately the minority that would be incredibly belligerent and aggressive would roughly 100% overlap with the minority of those that would act like this (making somebody come in to sit in an empty room) in the first place.
I have only moved firms twice. Both times on a 3 month notice period. Both times I left the office after midnight on my last day trying to sort sh1t out before I moved.
*is a mug*.
Why had someone who left here recently who worked the whole weekend after her last day sorting stuff out. Part of me admires the professionalism. Part of thinks what the actual fvck!
I spent a long time during my last notice period training my replacement and making sure my filing was idiot proof. I met up with my former boss a few months later and he thanked me profusely. He's now a GC somewhere I would be interested in working if I ever move back to London. Always worth leaving on good terms.
I cannot understand the whole English firm work your notice period for a year thing. Any management consultant would tell you it is totally counter productive. I don't want to be in a team if I've checked out, it is harder for the team and a waste of man hours. * ahem non binary specific hours.
put people on garden leave if they are a true threat and you realise restrictive covs aren't worth a bollock
A years notice WTF, isn't their binding CoA authority that says excessive notice periods are mostly unenforcable. 12 months notice is what SOME FTSE 100 CEO's etc have
Whenever I come across anybody with a years notice it just suits the individual. No business wants somebody absurdly senior coasting by for a year with their hands slipping off the tiller.
At worst they’ll get put on garden leave (great as they won’t have expected to start new role for 12 months so can just piss about on the golf course) or will just negotiate to get paid off in lieu of notice and possibly a bit extra.
Possible exception with somebody like a retiring chairman who has no life and would massively personally care about handover of the business.
The last time someone told me I would be expected to work my notice period (six months) I literally laughed and said “well I think we both know that isn’t going to happen.”
I worked one month of it before he got bored and sent me home, and I managed to wangle it down to three months so I could start my new job a bit sooner.
When I eventually quit that job, it wasn’t even like he was expecting me to work 12 months lol. My boss just asked if we could cut my garden leave down to six, which I agreed.
If was given nothing to do in my notice period I'd just turn up with a good book and enjoy being paid to sit in the office reading.
When I left the firm I trained at they knew I was going to leave three years before I left so we started the handover when I had about 5 months left to go and by the end of my notice period everything had been tidily handed over and I spent the last couple of weeks browsing the internet and going shopping. Far better than the firm where I wasn't allowed to tell clients I was leaving until my final day in the office.
Well tec if as you say you were on 12 months notice indeed you would be very fooking senior, think senior EP or senior MD with oversight for a huge team , and even then 12 months is unheard of mostly , certainly FTSR c suite are mainly 6-9 months, mmmmm
A roffer has actually seen my contract and advised me on it when I resigned.
I was head of a global team, I had country directors reporting to me, or state directors in the US. That’s all you need to know mate. I appreciate it doesn’t fit into your narrative but I was roughly on par with a senior country investment director/ principle. Not quite at managing director level but not far off.
In some places there are investment manager, higher investment managers, senior investment managers..... on top of multiple levels of analyst jobs.....
When the founder of the firm wanted to know what was happening in the uk, outside of the normal chain, he would call me rather than any of the European MDs.
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Law firms are terrible for making people work right up until the last minute and it just seems pointless expecting someone who's already mentally left to keep working.
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I am in some sort of hellish purgatory - and I am trying desperately hard to feel motivated, but, bleurgh.....
Sounds like my actual job. Chin up!
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I was worked to death during my last notice period. Bastards.
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surely in that situation you do what you are contracted to do and maintain that level of professionalism but no more Kimmy; certainly don't put in excess extra hours if you refuse what can they really do?
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can't you have a cold that you want to nurse from home for 14 days?
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There is nothing worse than the sort of person who dials out and refuses to do a proper handover, leaving their successor to pick up a load of shit
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Agree with Wello, smooth handover of work is the important bit, but there shouldnt be an expectation that you do any actual work imo.
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Proper handover but nobody is going to keep smashing their six hours of chargeable time every day. I recall one firm where I wasn't allowed to hand anything over until my final couple of days so it all became a scramble.
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I think I've been doing my notice periods wrong tbh. I've always wanted to leave on the best possible note.
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At my place I have observed people on notice working the same hours as they did beforehand, which makes me think I also will as otherwise I’ll look like a khunt.
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In one of my previous roles my line manager refused to tell me who I was handing over to until it was too late to do a proper handover, must have been a total clusterfvck. Notes alone and no sit down explanation of years of work.
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I HEAR YA. Less than a week to go now for me, though. Whoop!
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I am trying to do a good handover; in fact, if they'd let me focus on the handover, instead of throwing new sh1t at me, this would be a doddle. I really want the person who takes over from me, to have a much better handover than when I joined - because, let's face it, half of the battle is knowing where to find information or who to get answers from.
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currently halfway through a 6 month one.. Asked if a quicker exit was at all negotiable but they said no. not being passed any new work and now being excluded from team meetings and new projects (fair enough, I resigned) but 6 mths of that is a long time. quite relaxing though
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6 months is absolutely mad if you're not the CEO or something
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when I left my last ever law job I worked at least one day every weekend of my whole notice period ...
but that was on a particular deal with a partner I liked and a client I liked and the good thing about being so busy with that was that I didn’t have much else to hand over
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luckily my new employer is ok with it..
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Mine is only a 3 month one and that feels long enough. *hits head on desk repeatedly*
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Pull a long term sicky with stress. What's the worst that could happen?
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mine is very long*
*notice period.
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Make a clumsy pass at a colleague of the same sex. they won’t want you around anymore but will feel too awkward to actually do anything
i should imagine
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I've got a years notice period... none of the people with this have been held to it...
I'm more likely to retire out of here than resign so it made sense for me at the time.
I wouldn't like to stay motivated in that period though
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*go to Brighton*
*walk around*
*return home*
*claim you have coronavirus and self-quarantine for 14 days*
enjoy.
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Working the weekends during a notice period? Absolutely fooking not.
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I knew of a senior associate who was a professional indemnity litigator at one of the big city firms, who resigned, not only did they hold him to his notice, they took all his files from him, and made him come in to the office everyday and sit there and do nothing. He was distraught .
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What a w**ky thing to do.
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My practice group head is one of the most spiteful you will meet - has some sort of weird mafioso approach to loyalty and if anyone suggests that they are even contemplating handing in their notice he will not speak to them again. Even to the extent of walking into their office and saying to their roomie "Joe, please tell John XYZ". mentalist.
We had a Counsel resign after he was overlooked for partnership, and the dude was put in the secretarial pod for three months to deal with originals and bibles
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Heh @ people moaning about having to work their notice period when they’ve resigned but would fully expect it to be paid out if they were made redundant
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One of my old bosses showed me how to do this. Work to rule from day 1 of notice. Feet on the desk, lengthy lunch, out of the door. Unless you’re taking a following fook THEM
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wellington, the situation I described he would have loved to work his notice, but oh no he sat there looking at the wall for 8 hours. Matters compounded by him being excluded from all department meetings, and social events. Those 9 houts a day must have felt like double.
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I'm probably being massively naïve here, but isn't the trade off that you agree to leave without getting paid for your notice period. Or if they insist that you work your notice period, just work to rule but best not to take the proverbial as the industry in fairly small and you will be done over at some stage if you take the mick.
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Ebitda should have claimed constructive dismissal...
This happened at my work recently (short-server redundancy) and making people serve their notice period in that sort of scenario felt like shithousery. Even though i tell clients all day long that they’re absolutely entitled to do that with no qualms.
Work to rule definitely the way to go.
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NB, he would have loved the chance to work to rule. He was half mad after a month. He was a huge sports fan, he did pretty much little else other than play or watch sport. When he asked why the partner, was doing it , said partner said" I am not having you sat at home whilst watching sky sports all day"
He had the last laugh, he was within 2 years divisional GC for the prof neg department of a major insurer whose spend he tells me Europe wide was about £10MM. They lost their place on the panel, and said partner is now a "commercial " litigator in a ten partner provincial firm, serves him right. What a tosser.
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Why didn't he just rof all day? I'd have watched boxed sets on my phone
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YES I love a vindictive happy ending
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In my last role, I got bored halfway through the notice period and told our head that I didn't want to work anymore. He offered to give me more work, but I said I didn't really feel like being there. I was going to a client so they let me go early.
In another role, they did the making me turn up and sit in an empty room. This was in pre-internet days. It was very very tedious.
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Why the fook was he working 9 hour days if he was given nothing to do? He sounds an utter weirdo.
I'd have loved that. You could spend your time writing a novel. Tell everyone you're observing their behaviours and basing characters on them. Bound to freak them out enough to send you home.
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Lawyers get so paranoid about this small world stuff, it really isn't. When you see how many useless aunts still have careers after 20 years of being shit, it just can't be.
You just work to rule so that the oppressor has to have it out with you and you tell him you are no longer motivated and he can either deal with it or let you go. This has the added bonus of resulting in a terse "Rofer is leaving the firm" email rather than a cringy leaving presentation.
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I wasn't given paper, pen or PC. This chap had no excuse.
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Maybe i am being naive here, but i just dont understand how some of these scenarios could ever transpire.
If the employer is being so unreasonable (e.g. absolutely no work to do) wouldnt you just stop coming in?
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Exactly
if it became clear to me that I was expected to sit in a room with no paper, pens or internet access I just wouldn't go in. And I would tell them it was mental.
why are so many professional people such total doormats?
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If you don't come in they probably won't pay you
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For the three month period of notice you're being held to and would rather not see out? So walk and bring a claim
no ET would back them.
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I was very junior and in a non-legal role. There's no fooking way that would happen anymore.
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What would they have actually done if you'd brought in your own pen and paper (I hear you can buy these in shops) or maybe a book?
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Employment Judges aren’t necessarily great but most of them do grasp that if you refuse to turn up for work you don’t get paid.
You could have a crack at a constructive dismissal claim to try and get your wages for notice period plus basic award. Would have an ok chance if they have been particularly callous although not the easiest claim to bring when you’ve already resigned and have then asked to leave early. If you then start your new job early or do anything interesting (eg travel) in that time it’s going to be even harder.
Could make some noise about possibly being released from restrictions due to constructive dismissal and most law firms (and businesses) would just pay the notice pay under a COT3. Unfortunately the minority that would be incredibly belligerent and aggressive would roughly 100% overlap with the minority of those that would act like this (making somebody come in to sit in an empty room) in the first place.
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I have only moved firms twice. Both times on a 3 month notice period. Both times I left the office after midnight on my last day trying to sort sh1t out before I moved.
*is a mug*.
Why had someone who left here recently who worked the whole weekend after her last day sorting stuff out. Part of me admires the professionalism. Part of thinks what the actual fvck!
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*we had someone*
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I spent a long time during my last notice period training my replacement and making sure my filing was idiot proof. I met up with my former boss a few months later and he thanked me profusely. He's now a GC somewhere I would be interested in working if I ever move back to London. Always worth leaving on good terms.
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I cannot understand the whole English firm work your notice period for a year thing. Any management consultant would tell you it is totally counter productive. I don't want to be in a team if I've checked out, it is harder for the team and a waste of man hours. * ahem non binary specific hours.
put people on garden leave if they are a true threat and you realise restrictive covs aren't worth a bollock
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A years notice WTF, isn't their binding CoA authority that says excessive notice periods are mostly unenforcable. 12 months notice is what SOME FTSE 100 CEO's etc have
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Standard for most English or English originated partnerships. I think an old roffer was held to about 8 months
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Whenever I come across anybody with a years notice it just suits the individual. No business wants somebody absurdly senior coasting by for a year with their hands slipping off the tiller.
At worst they’ll get put on garden leave (great as they won’t have expected to start new role for 12 months so can just piss about on the golf course) or will just negotiate to get paid off in lieu of notice and possibly a bit extra.
Possible exception with somebody like a retiring chairman who has no life and would massively personally care about handover of the business.
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The last time someone told me I would be expected to work my notice period (six months) I literally laughed and said “well I think we both know that isn’t going to happen.”
I worked one month of it before he got bored and sent me home, and I managed to wangle it down to three months so I could start my new job a bit sooner.
When I eventually quit that job, it wasn’t even like he was expecting me to work 12 months lol. My boss just asked if we could cut my garden leave down to six, which I agreed.
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If you're being humiliated ffs grow a backbone and tell them it's not acceptable
So wot Linda said
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Tec you were on 12 months notice ...
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Yeah
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I know you lot just know me as a bit of a mad random guy but I am considered to be very fooking senior within my specific area of expertise.
One of the reasons I can’t go back is that I don’t want everyone to know what I have turned into.
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If was given nothing to do in my notice period I'd just turn up with a good book and enjoy being paid to sit in the office reading.
When I left the firm I trained at they knew I was going to leave three years before I left so we started the handover when I had about 5 months left to go and by the end of my notice period everything had been tidily handed over and I spent the last couple of weeks browsing the internet and going shopping. Far better than the firm where I wasn't allowed to tell clients I was leaving until my final day in the office.
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Sails: try not being allowed to speak with any contact for six months even to confirm you’ve left. Restrictive covenants can eat my butt.
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I've generally ignored them anyway.
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Well tec if as you say you were on 12 months notice indeed you would be very fooking senior, think senior EP or senior MD with oversight for a huge team , and even then 12 months is unheard of mostly , certainly FTSR c suite are mainly 6-9 months, mmmmm
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Oh for gods sakes.
A roffer has actually seen my contract and advised me on it when I resigned.
I was head of a global team, I had country directors reporting to me, or state directors in the US. That’s all you need to know mate. I appreciate it doesn’t fit into your narrative but I was roughly on par with a senior country investment director/ principle. Not quite at managing director level but not far off.
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Ok mates. But an investment director or indeed principal is not as you say “very fooking senior”
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Can we please just settle this?
Teclis, what was your final year's total comp?
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Depends on the structure really.
In some places there are investment manager, higher investment managers, senior investment managers..... on top of multiple levels of analyst jobs.....
When the founder of the firm wanted to know what was happening in the uk, outside of the normal chain, he would call me rather than any of the European MDs.
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Final years comp hasn’t really be sorted yet as I have coinvests etc.
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Tecco has a very articular set of skills. You are far to junior in the PE industry to understand the importance of mackerel.
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Tec ,you were there for just a matter of a few months, years ago and you can’t give all washed up a clue at all...
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As Facebook says....
Its complicated.
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the freaky coronavava will have killed us all before the end of your notice period m99 so tbh I’d just chill
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Indeed Tec, it is seemingly complex.
And did I understand the senior founding partner would call you directly when he wanted to know what was happenning in the UK?
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And my notice period....is done.
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