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Trudeau and brown face

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49749851

 

Thoughts? It was 2001. Brown face wasn't that bad back then?

*looks in bag of botheration*

*finds it empty on account of man going to a fancy dress party 20 years ago at which absolutely no one was hurt and a jolly good time was probably had by everyone there not being a major issue compared to just about everything else*

every time one of these pictures surfaces I always remember my mate Davina going to a fancy dress party in the early 90s in a sexy Nazi costume

I have professional respect for the PR handling of the situation though, it's very well done

That year I was working as a paralegal in the ar8e end of nowhere and was 'dared' by my boss to go the fancy dress party in blackface. I didn't because it was to me (at that time) obviously fvcking offensive, but 'socially' in the ar8e end of nowhere in the UK at least it was at least vaguely kinda sorta acceptable in a being a bit 'deliberately edgy' sort of way.  

So we have Trudeau doing something offensive when he was young that he should have known better than to do. He has owned it and said it was a mistake.  It says nothing at all about who he is now or how he thinks. 

"So we have Trudeau doing something offensive when he was young..." - he was 29 and was a teacher.

How old do you have to be not to be responsible for "youthful misdemeanours" now?

Like I said, he should have known better, he didn't. He has owned it and said sorry. I do not think it says anything about the way he thinks now. I don't actually think that 'brownface' is per se racist unless there is a racist intention behind it but it is clearly now regarded as offensive to the point where if someone does it you have to question their motives. I don't think it was quite in that category in 2001. 

As PrideMonth says 29 is not young and he was a teacher. It is relevant as it is an example of really poor judgment by adult Trudeau in a position of responsibility as a teacher.

I have a genuiine question:

If he was attending a party dressed as a character from Aladdin, and that character was black, how, is it in any way racist to darken his face?

I think you'll find the position is clear:

As Trudeau is a liberal and lefty - this is fine.  Probably even "brave and principled" and nobody was hurt and it was a long time ago and blah blah blah.

If it was say Trump 30 years ago, he should be hanged and is the most dispicable racist that ever lived.

Essentially, if you are a lefty (especially if the ladies like you) you have carte blanche to be a massive racist douchebag.

If Justin said he'd grabbed women by the pussy they would be swooning.  "grab mine Justin, and make sure you're in black face whilst you do it, you naughty boy!!!"

 

 

Doesn't every white actor playing Aladdin in every pantomime around the country darken their skin?  Ricky Gervias did it in extras FFS

Total non-story that just gives the "anti-PC" racists ammunition.

I don't think putting on "black face" is racist per se.  It depends why and how it is done.

However, the LEFT have decreed it is ALWAYS RACIST.

But now Justin has done it, it's fine.  Just a bit of harmless fun.  He was young.  He was silly. 

GRAB MY fookING PUSSY JUSTIN!!!

If a white child genuinely loves the work of say, Jay-Z and blacks up to dress as Jay-Z at a party, out of respect for Jay-Z why is this racist?   I don't think it is - IF it is done properly with correct brown face paint. 

If child just slaps on black paint and looks like an Al Jolson tribute in a hip hop clothes, that would be racist imo. 

Sorry, are you suggesting that whether or not it's "racist" depends on the technical accuracy of the face paint? Should the child consult its Pantone colour chart?

PC claptrap.

"Ricky Gervais is a comedian whilst Trudeau is the leader of a democratic nation. It is not the same thing."

I am sorry if you are dressing up to look like Aladdin I cannot see a problem.  Aladdin is not an offensive  stereotype he is a well known fictional character with a specific look.  Please explain who would be genuinely offended by this and why.

Anyone who supports a left wing party would be offended UNLESS the person dressed as Aladdin was also a left winger. 

Guy - if this was Boris dressing as Aladdin for a Bullingdon Club event you'd probably give yourself a heart attack from the indignant rage. 

 

Are you saying generic is offensive but a specific character is ok?

 

Aladdin is fine.  What about Slave Jim from Huck Finn?  What about Hitler?  What about Ghenghis Khan?

 

 

yes I am saying that, fine to dress up as Aladdin and darken skin to complete the look not ok to dress up as a "black man" where the point is the skin colour

Guy Crouchback19 Sep 19 10:21

No I really wouldn't be offended by anyone dressing up as Aladdin.  Nazis, yes, "natives" yes, Aladdin no.

==

Does it depend if the Nazi is comedic or serious? Take Mel Brooks for example...

offensive

This is impossible to defend. At least he has just outright apologised rather than times were different then/it was a private function, which is what people like Donald Findlay QC use to get away with stuff like this. 

blindtom19

Sep 19 10:42

Mel Brooks made the Producers purely to mock the Nazis which isn't really a problem. Most people dressing up as a Nazi are not.

====

Prince Harry? Ed Balls?

It is a matter of applying common sense.  There is nothing intrinsically offensive about darkening or lightening ones skin, people of all races do it for different reasons all the time.  The reason you are doing it and the context are all important.

In my view doing it for a fancy dress party to look like a completely inoffensive fairy tale character is fine.

I think you are dancing on pinheads Guy. Can I go to a fancy dress party as Daniel Day Lewis's character in My Left Foot? Even in pantomimes back then I can't imagine they blacked up white actors. Maybe I am wrong. 

The issue you have to remember here is that the photo was taken in 2001. I can't even recall if there were camera phones then. He has made a judgment that the crowd is safe, the same way Donald Findlay did when he was filmed singing The Sash etc., and the advance of technology has embarrassed him. 

The fact is when it is wrong you have to call it out. I am a fan of Trudeau as a politician generally, but he is a privileged berk as well and this needs to be called IMO. 

I am afraid I laugh at the idea of the need to feel "safe" to dress up as Aladdin.   It is simply ridiculous, nobody would be offended save for professional offence takers.

I am doing the very opposite of dancing on pinheads - I am applying common sense.     What next - is fake tan offensive?   is skin whitening offensive?  can no actor ever again play somebody with a darker skin tone then them?

I think the point is, most people who "play" aladdin or dress up as him put on the costume but don't necessarily put on a black face. 

I saw Aladdin in the West End and the actor just had his usual face, not a painted one. 

Guy don't get me started on the whole modern thing of having to use actors who have similar characteristics to the character they are portraying.  The whole thing about acting is that it's make believe.

I am doing the very opposite of dancing on pinheads - I am applying common sense.     What next - is fake tan offensive?   is skin whitening offensive?  can no actor ever again play somebody with a darker skin tone then them?

Yes.  This is what the left wants.  Bryan Cranston was criticised for playing a paraplegic in a film.  Apparently a real paraplegic should have been used.

Actors can no longer act.  What next, Peter Sutcliffe playing the Bond villain as we need a genuine murderer???
 

 

The argument is that historically people wearing "blackface" (an awful phrase) did so to mock black people so it's inherently offensive, has that undertone or its too close to living memory for it to be acceptable.

Personally I think there's a distinction these days and it isn't necessarily intended to be or in fact derogatory or racist.

But am happy to err on the side of not doing it if there's a genuine risk it offends people on what is clearly a sensitive topic.

But logically there's no reason why I couldn't go to a fancy dress party as Isaac Hayes and, if I did, why I couldn't wear make up to look dark.

If you are invited to a black family's house for dinner and you dress up as a famous black historical character - to impress them - is that acceptable or unacceptable?

SorrydidIsay, I think that is a sensible position to adopt.   Although not if the only people to take offence are those who are concerned about breaching new social conventions (which is what I think this is) rather than a genuine concern that a minority ethnic group will feel threatened humiliated or mocked - which is simply impossible to imagine in the case of somebody adopting a darker skin  tone to dress up as Aladdin frankly.

If you are invited to a black family's house for dinner and you dress up as a famous black historical character - to impress them - is that acceptable or unacceptable?

I would ere on the side of caution on that one Sir  Pitt.  Very high chance the family would think you were mocking them.  As I would if I invited a black person to dinner and they came dressed up as Gladstone.

 

If you are invited to a black family's house for dinner and you dress up as a famous black historical character - to impress them - is that acceptable or unacceptable?

Such as aunta Kinte, say with shackles round his neck? Seems like just the kind of thing Trudeau (or Supes) would do as a display of what a good “ally” he is

If you are invited to a black family's house for dinner and you dress up as a famous black historical character - to impress them - is that acceptable or unacceptable?

 

Wtaf? Why would you do that??!!

i doubt you would be invited back for dinner as it would be FVXKING CREEPY

Nobody using fake tan is pretending to be a different ethnic group. It's just a cartoon character. Okay I'll fetch the golliwog dolls from the attic as it is a much loved children's character - any issues? 

 

Should the caucasians of the board go to Kwasi Kwarteng's next fundraiser as the Ghanaian football team, complete with skin colouring, to see who is right? Perhaps we can also have Othello, Aladdin, the Robertson's Golly and Batfink's sidekick (making sure we pull the skin back beside our eyes as well) to have a better idea of where the line is? 

In the 90's I played a savage in a pantomime where liberal amounts or brown make up was applied to me. I was also in "The King and I" where I was yellowed up and had slit eyes drawn on to me. 

I am glad that I am not a politician as I would probably be required to apologise for such racist behaviour and using the excuse that I was young and that it was a different time etc.

Depending on when it was in the 90s I think you'd have a bit more latitude, plus you were required to do it unless you were the artistic director. Having watched the Stephen Lawrence doc I can't believe how racist society was even in the early 90s, though I remember people throwing bananas at Mark Walters when he joined Rangers so prob shouldn't be. 

I was in Spain on a stag do and we went to watch the grand prix. We had a right laugh blacking up our faces in homage to Lewis Hamilton's skill. Bastard wouldn't give us a selfie even though we told him it was just a bit of fun.  

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