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The Rejoin EU March

Were any of you sad sacks in attendance this weekend?

Absolute state of the people... cringe doesn't quite cover it.

https://x.com/LovelyGeezer65/status/1705675741281612220?s=20

https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/1705570241391030563?s=20

LA didnt you vote for Brexit?  The biggest national "cringe" moment  of embarrassment at least since the Suez and probably ever.  I would shut about brexit and cringeworthiness if I were you.

Nothing cringe about it eh?

Can you maybe run us through some of the key Brexit related wins then?

Oh, and can you make them actual, tangible ones rather than tragic hanners ones like ‘it makes people like you sad’.  

The absolute state of that lot. Cringe doesn't cover it. I can only think that they're closet Brexiteers, trying to undermine the EU cause. 

On a separate note, though, surely everyone is 'Rejoin' nowadays? 

AND WE WERE ABLE TO EXERCISE OUR SOVEREIGNTY AND REJOIN THE EU’S HORIZON SCIENCE PROGRAMME!!

WE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO REJOIN HORIZON WITHOUT BREXIT!!

kingfaff - I will indeed be tozzaconferencing this year. Attending with the same chap who was felt up by Conor Burns last year. Sadly have checked the Agenda and it doesn't look like Conor will be attending - he is not speaking at any events at any rate.

Perhaps this is the year where I will meet my Tory princess - hope springs eternal.

Sociologist's field day yesterday given the contrast between the Rejoin march (which was even as an ardent remainer made me cringe so hard I disappeared up my own fundament) and the "Save the Bullies" march. 

LA, you were so busy telling us about your forthcoming sexploits that you entirely missed listing out a few of those tangible brexit benefits.

Shouldn’t take long, there must be literally dozens you could tell us about off the top of your head, you know, proper, big, important benefits

Gosh, what are the odds of both LA and crypto developing terrible internet connection problems, just as they were about to press ‘send’ on their benefits of Brexit emails?

@ Strutter

It's too early to tell. Let's see if we can get trade deals with the US and other countries and how things look then.

In the mean time, Project Fear has proved to be overblown. Covid and the Ukraine war have had a bigger impact than Brexit. In terms of economic recovery since Covid, we're performing much better than Germany and are just behind France and Italy. Our core inflation is now in the middle of the European pack.

As Keir Starmer correctly puts it:

"I have repeatedly said that there's no case for going back into the EU and that includes the single market and the customs union."

Let's see if we can get trade deals with the US

😂

and other countries

🤣 like mozambique and new guinea?

In the mean time, Project Fear has proved to be overblown

😁

Never change Walter.

India trade deal will be signed shortly. A US deal will follow at some point.

Even if they don't, the sky hasn't fallen in. If there's a major European economy in trouble, it's Germany, not the UK. Politicians aren't making the case for urgently rejoining because there isn't one.

If you're hoping for any of Rejoin/ single market/ customs union I’d suggest taking the hint. The guy you are pinning your hopes on has repeatedly, and in very clear language, told you to fùck off.

That's not the right question. The right question is: should we Rejoin, and the answer is no.

People voted for the UK to be an independent country, taking into account the various prophecies of doom. Carping on about that being the wrong decision isn't a constructive exercise.

Brexit on the terms it has occurred is a disaster for the UK long term.

It was essentially about lack of confidence by the UK. It could not step up and compete in the EU so it took its toys and went away.

Every month the UK gets poorer relative to other countries because it's shot itself in the foot as regards its terms of trade with its largest trading partner.  A free trade agreement or whatever with India (which of course has not actually been agreed or taken effect) would not represent even a fraction of what the UK has lost. 

Strutter, you don't really care about the benefits (or you don't see them as benefits) hence why you're a remainer but for the record - some I perceive as tangible:

Ends freedom of movement

No EU Budget contributions

Control over our own laws

Allowed us to act quicker on the Covid vaccine

Allows us to align ourselves and do trade deals with parts of the world that are growing faster than the EU (CPTPP etc)

People voted for the UK to be an independent country, taking into account the various prophecies of doom.

THEY KNEW PROJECT FEAR WAS NONSENSE AND THEY VOTED FOR THE SUNLIT UPLANDS AND BEING BETTER OFF TO THE TUNE OF £350 MILLION A WEEK!!

Allows us to align ourselves and do trade deals with parts of the world that are growing faster than the EU (CPTPP etc)

CPTPP IS WORTH AN INCREASE OF 0.08% OF GDP IN THE LONG RUN!!

Allows us to align ourselves and do trade deals with parts of the world that are growing faster than the EU (CPTPP etc)

CPTPP is expected to increase GDP by 0.08% 

Brexit cost us 4%

Are you able to do simple maths?

You people had no idea what you were voting for at all other than shouting at the EU, because you have no grasp of history and the luxury of being British - with the best of the US and the EU. You’re going to find out very painfully how fvcking stupid and ignorant you are. You’re welcome. 

Ends freedom of movement

- yes, not particularly happy with my freedom of movement being reduced as well.  If you mean fewer immigrants then that hasn't really happened has it (and a lot of these ones are not, how can we put it, European - which won't please a lot of the core brexit demographic)?

No EU Budget contributions

- true, but we got an awful lot of that back and the EU tended to make the grants where they were needed rather than where there might be some electoral advantage for the Conservatives as happens with a lot of this sort of funding now

Control over our own laws

- apart from having to meticulously shadow the EU laws if we want to be able to sell our goods and services to them, only without any say in how they are made

Allowed us to act quicker on the Covid vaccine

- a lie that 20 seconds of research can expose, we were free to do our own thing within or without the EU

Allows us to align ourselves and do trade deals with parts of the world that are growing faster than the EU (CPTPP etc)

- my learned colleagues have already done the maths on this one for you

As George correctly and sagely points out, the key benefit here is that the sky has not fallen in.

I think we can call sleep safer in our beds knowing that the brave Brexiteers had the foresight to grab this benefit when it was made possible. 

freedom to poison our rivers

GOOD POINT ACTUALLY I DOUBT THE FACELESS BRUSSELS BUREAUCRATS WOULD HAVE LET ME EMPTY MY PROUD BRITISH BOWELS SO REGULARLY INTO THE RIVERS AND ONTO THE BEACHES OF THIS GREEN AND PLEASANT LAND!!

I don’t get the obsession with getting trade deals as an end in themselves.

Getting a GOOD trade deal, sure, but how did that Australian trade deal go again?

Likewise, an Indian trade deal that makes it easier for a lower wage economy to provide services in the UK doesn’t sound a good result for me.

As for getting a good trade deal out of the US - whether led by Biden or Trump - not gonna happen. They will want to dump their lower quality meat here, with all its hormones and antibiotics, as the first gating point to unlock the rest of the negotiations.

"As George correctly and sagely points out, the key benefit here is that the sky has not fallen in."

That's not a benefit. It's a refutation of the Remoaner case.

We were told that the sky would fall in if we didn't concede sovereignty to the EU. This was false.

The economic effect of Brexit has been a sideshow compared to the impact of Covid and Ukraine. Covid has hit everyone hard - we're middle of the road in terms of recovering from it.

"I don’t get the obsession with getting trade deals as an end in themselves."

OK, so trade with the EU good, trade with anywhere else "not an end in itself"?

Isn't trade with the EU the "end" which we were told justified ceding sovereignty?

"They need trade deals to own the libs"

Nope, that's happening already.

Sir Keir: "We are not rejoining the EU under any possible circumstances. I've said this about a hundred times. When will you get the message?"

Libs: "Tis but a scratch! Onwards and upwards with Rejoin!"

We're the sixth largest economy in the world so I don't think we are "irrelevant."

Should Canada, the ninth largest economy in the world, cede sovereignty to the US to ease trading relations so that it can become "relevant"?

We’ve been through this. Unless you think Keir starmer will appoint himself president for life and live to 110 it isn’t really an issue (unless you expected the uk to rejoin within the next 7 years I suppose) 

The public don’t give a sh1t whether we make esoteric trade deals or not, neither do they care if we quietly align with EU standards. It’s on the EU to be flexible so that increasing alignment leads to fewer barriers to trade.

Out of the political project, increasingly aligned with the single market. That’s the direction of travel.

Let’s see how relevant we are in 10 years time. We have zip manufacturing, zip saleable natural resources, literally no way of extracting value from any foreign company ‘investing’ here, the city our financial centre is shrinking, we are overrun by foreign consumers milking our history for lolz. Well done. 

We were told that the sky would fall in if we didn't concede sovereignty to the EU

Receipts please. 

Isn't trade with the EU the "end" which we were told justified ceding sovereignty?

No, a combination of single market, customs union, free movement and proximity made it an absolute banging trade deal.

"No, a combination of single market, customs union, free movement and proximity made it an absolute banging trade deal."

Sorry RR but this does not make sense.

Single market/ customs union = trade.

Unrestricted free movement was a vote loser, which is why the Brexit side campaigned hard on it.

Sorry RR but this does not make sense.

It makes perfect sense Walter. The three freedoms of capital, services and people work in harmony to prevent imbalances from destroying the union. The EU structured their entire brexit stance behind this and succeeded massively. 

You're just pretending not to understand because you crave attention and think you're good at arguing.

Hint: you are not.

@GG - I didn’t say trading with the EU is an end in itself.

Pre-Brexit, the UK had a trade deficit in goods and a trade surplus in services with the EU. The trade deal allows for ‘tariff-free’ movement of goods but not services. That’s a bad trade deal. Worse than we had before.

As to trade deals with the US and India being a benefit of Brexit - the fact of a trade deal is neither a good thing nor a bad thing. A bad trade deal is a bad thing and a good trade deal is a good thing.

What are the chances of a GOOD trade deal with either country, which would be better than no trade deal at all? Not high.

What are the chances of a trade deal with the US or India that made up for the loss of exports to the EU by UK-based businesses, or the transfer of City and other finance jobs to Paris, Madrid, Frankfurt and Amsterdam? Not remotely likely.

You were disputing that trade was the main benefit on the offer from the EU, but then went on about the single market (free movement being a requirement) and the customs union - i.e. trade. Didn't make sense to me, sorry.

I'll ignore the usual Remoaner ad hominem stuff. Noted that I've gone back to being "Walter" after you were briefly "confident" that I was SummerSails.

"What are the chances of a GOOD trade deal with either country, which would be better than no trade deal at all? Not high."

That's a bold statement. I don't know whether it's right or not. You'd need to have analysed the prospective UK/ India deal in a lot of detail to justify this claim.

As regards the weakening of the EU trading relationship - I'd say it's about cost/ benefit.

The cost of single market membership was ceding sovereignty to the EU, including over the right to determine who can come to the country. People didn't want to bear that cost and so they voted for Brexit, despite being warned in apocalyptic terms of the downsides.

We can make our own trade deals now (tailored to the UK's needs, not the EU's). Maybe we can make a success of that, maybe we can't. But we should at least try to make it work. Nobody would say that Japan must urgently give up control of its laws to China to facilitate trade, or Canada to the USA.

“The cost of single market membership was ceding sovereignty to the EU, including over the right to determine who can come to the country. People didn't want to bear that cost ”

How’s that working out for you?

If our politicians fail to control the borders they can (and in this case will) get booted out for the failure. It's not the same thing as offering a permanent open door to the EU plus whoever the EU admits from third countries, and having no ability to close it.

Right… so previously we had EU immigrants who were economically productive and a net income for the Treasury.

Now we have non-EU immigrants who we pay to put up in hotels for months on end at a cost to the Treasury.

And you’re saying the former was a cost Brexiteers were not willing to bear? 

 

I think most people who voted Brexit were hoping not to have to put up non-EU immigrants in hotels, and yes they are probably quite p1ssed off about it which is not helping the standing of the Tories or Brexit.

JUST KEEP ON REMINDING THE REMOANERS ABOUT THE £350 MILLION A WEEK THEY USED TO SCOFF AT!!

WELL HERE WE ARE IN THE SUNLIT UPLANDS AND WHO’S SCOFFING NOW!!

I think most people who voted Brexit were hoping not to have to put up non-EU immigrants in hotels, and yes they are probably quite p1ssed off about it which is not helping the standing of the Tories or Brexit.
 

It does seem to be the worst of both worlds, While various parts of the economy suffer the productivity consequences of labour shortfalls following the cessation of freedom of movement, we’re also suffering the incremental economic cost of only actually processing 3 asylum claims a fortnight. 

It’s not only nose despite face. It’s whole fooking appendages. A large injection of cheap labour is probably what the economy needs right now. Anti-inflationary and solves the labour supply productivity problem. 

Or we could pay to fly them one by one to Rwanda. 

This is why the Tories need to realise the red wall is already lost, so they can stop worrying about what red wall voters think about immigration, and have an go at economically literate policies.

heh george graham really doubling down on getting himself multi-pwned, humil7ed, then self-pwning, rounded off with a delic7 mouth cleanser of ultra pwn

the amusing thing is not even the diehard brexters r pretending it’s been nething other than a disastrous failure ne more

don’t be ur usual gullible self roger

literally no neg7ives have been overplayed. not a single 1.

and faod that excludes the made up neg7ives brexter whingers invented as straw men, tho laughably even many of those have come 2 pass too

This article (by a Rejoiner) nails it. The Rejoin campaign aren’t helping themselves at all.

I'd have to agree with this.  Rejoin needs to fight dirty AF and co-opt Leaver narratives.  For instance would the good folk of Thanet rather have white Christian Eastern Europeans coming over or economic migrants from the global south who adhere to the "religion of peace"?  If back in the EU we have greater leeway to "send them back" to France.  And so on.  Trade deals with India will mean a horde of IT workers coming over.  Etc etc etc. 

The argument that the EU spends money in the UK where it's needed, as opposed to where it benefits the Natural Party of Government, is not a bad one.  By the time we get back in, will the North of England be economically deprived enough to merit big EU-funded infrastructure investments like, say, better rail links between Northern cities and southward to Birmingham?   I guess so ... they'll probably have rebuilt Ukraine by then... 

No, I think rejoin should continue being reasonable, sensible people who advocate for the right thing for the people of the UK and not lean into racist dog whistling. That's not to say rejoin should be soft and passive, just not stoop to the same level as the cretins who dragged us out.

Lol at the thought that rejoining would allow us to send migrants back to France - we'll be getting more than our current share of migrants under any 'burden-sharing' deal with the EU (which apparently is what Sir Keir wants us to do anyway) 

I did have to heh at this as a description of many Roffers.

”It’s like the march was there to try and really drive home the idea that re-joining the EU is only of concern to a small group of mostly older liberals in the Home Counties, well-off enough to spend time sewing together EU-themed superhero costumes.”

If back in the EU we have greater leeway to "send them back" to France.

Are you seriously suggesting that with EU membership, France would take back migrants that don’t want to be there?

It beggars belief that people here see the issues going on at Italy's borders (i.e. Lampedusa) and thinks - "Do you know what - we want a bit of that."

It is an INVASION ffs.

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