If you do a bit of research it seems they did like 400,000 other Syrian refugees flee to Turkey, then return to Syria, then flee again. They were stuck in Turkey because they weren’t legally entitled to work although it seems he got some illegal, minimal or no wage work and he and his kids moved accommodation including sleeping rough and in toilets. His sister was in Canada and sending them money having moved over 20 years previous. They tried to get asylum in Canada but it was refused because you have to be declared a refugee by the Turkish government seemingly making it nigh on impossible. I dunno where this bit about dentistry comes into it but it just isn’t plausible to me that that would be the motivation for endangering his family like that, especially given the background to how they got there.
Funkhouser even if you take the view that the left has “exploited” the image (ok fine, people like playing politics) your cynical attitude towards the family is appalling. I just don’t think you can have even the slightest idea what it would be like to be displaced and trying to get your kids somewhere sustainable and safe. You should at least give them the benefit of the doubt until you are absolutely sure of your facts.
Honestly I just dunno how you can be happy with yourself spouting out views like that. Maybe you aren’t.
Releasing the Tory bots last night not the most intelligent move, just keeps the story running a bit longer, same as the claimed assault last night on Matt Hancocks Spad by a rent a mob of Communists.
It is not a fraud - but the NHS is huge weird bad shit will happen occasionally no matter who runs the country and how well it is funded - still people are stupid and if it helps prevent a Johnson majority - all’s fair and all that
This story is a microcosm of what is wrong with politics and public discourse.
The story is not fake. It is real. It was first reported by the Yorkshire Evening Post (a highly reputable paper) who had checked first with the hospital. The hospital confirmed the story is true. See:
But look at the lies and misinformation that is being spread by those who want to have a Tory government. Some people say Dominic Cummings is behind it: I have no idea whether he is or not. But somebody is behind it, and that person wants to assist BJ to win this election.
It is a sad world where any story like this is assumed to be fake news.
See also Jez waving about papers saying it PROVED the NHS was for sale... no wonder there is no trust left at all.
The simple fact that no one would argue with is that A&E in the NHS is a fooking nightmare and needs to be sorted out. BUT - the hard facts are that it is a nightmare for a number of reasons and just throwing money at it will not fix them.
BUT LOOK A CHILD ON THE FLOOR childish ADHD simplistic bullshit soundbite shit is all that the media deal with now and 90% of people can get their heads round.
Wibs it is not just the photo, it is Boris’ bizarre and unempathetic reaction to it, and complete failure to acknowledge that the tories have been in power for nearly ten years and do actually own this mess.
Well indeed but can we call our both sides please? You’re posting in a thread with a bullshit fake news title.
We have a situation where a boy with the flu spent four hours in between beds in a room which only had chairs in it on the busiest night the hospital has had in the past 3.5 years. It isn’t acceptable, we should be spending money to ensure this doesn’t happen again.
It shouldn’t be hard for both sides to cut the shit and be honest about it. But we’re in a situation where everything has to be weaponised and turned into bullshit.
Has anyone seen the generic tweet sent out by numerous Cummingsbots which are cut and pasted "I used to be a PICU nurse..." and then go on to say Why This Is Not a True Story.
I'm at the wrong end of 40 and this is without a doubt the filthiest election I've ever known.
Agree that this is unlikely to make any difference, but the Tory social media dirty tricks campaign has been out of control this year, and I think the blame can only be put on Cummings.
It's like a PR masterclass in how not to do things though
- PM does something characteristically stupid
- Send another minister along to try and defuse situation
- when that doesn't work, claim Labour sent organised violent protesters along and punched a Tory aide
- when that is proved to be bollocks, set up loads of bots to spread further lies
There's a good clip circulating of Steve Bray (aka 'Mr Stop Brexit') stopping Cummings in the street, and Cummings saying 'oh, I heard you had a hedge fund and a nice flat nearby'
He gets away with spouting any old bollocks because he can. The man is genuinely dangerous.
wibble: according to the original article, he was admitted with suspected pneumonia at the suggestion of his GP and at hospital he was diagnosed with flu and tonsillitis
is your point that because the title of this thread says "pneumonia" rather than "suspected pneumonia" the OH is as blameworthy as those people spreading lies that the story has been fabricated?
he has just tweeted a malicious fake FB post suggesting that the mother of the 4yr old boy with pneumonia put him on the floor deliberately. That is how low Fabricant will stoop. He’s unfit for any public office.
Last time a senior Tory was confronted about an NHS scandal involving a child, Kuenssberg deflected with "This is him here" & piled on the father. This time she deflected from the pneumonia boy by claiming a protester punched Hancock's adviser.
Laura Kuenssberg knew the story of the boy with pneumonia was true because she had video proof, but she also knew it would embarrass the Tories. Laura Kuenssberg didn't care if the story of Matt Hancock's advisor being punched was true because she knew it would embarrass Labour.====
When a 4 yr old boy suffering from pneumonia is being treated on the floor of a hospital - I simply say this: 'The Tories have had 9 yrs to fund our NHS properly!' "It's time to bring their regime to an end!" - Jeremy Corbyn at Bristol rally.
Anyone considering voting Conservative ask yourself one thing, do you think this man or his government give a flying fook about you or your family. He doesn’t possess an ounce of compassion for anyone - let alone a 4 year old boy with pneumonia.
The behaviour today of Robert Peston & Laura Kuenssberg was appalling Instead of focusing on the boy with pneumonia forced to sleep on the floor in A&E, they made false claims that people protesting that situation assaulted someone This isnt journalism. They aren't journalists
I’ll tell you what’s a pretty fooking ‘grim encounter’ - a 4 year old boy with pneumonia forced to sleep on the floor in A&E in the sixth richest country in the world.
"We have a situation where a boy with the flu spent four hours in between beds in a room which only had chairs in it on the busiest night the hospital has had in the past 3.5 years. It isn’t acceptable, we should be spending money to ensure this doesn’t happen again.
It shouldn’t be hard for both sides to cut the shit and be honest about it. But we’re in a situation where everything has to be weaponised and turned into bullshit."
How, exactly, do we spend enough money to ensure that, on the busiest night that a hospital had experienced in 3.5 years, there are enough beds so that a boy, who was not in fact diagnosed with pneumonia after all (and therefore did not need to be in hospital) did not have a bed to lie down in?
Presumably, the answer will come by building more hospitals with more beds. But if this was, as it is suggested, a peak demand crisis, then at first those beds would sit there empty. But not for long, because if a hospital has beds to admit patients to, and is in two minds about whether admission is really necessary, they are likely to decide to admit the patient to err on the safe side and, hey, the bed would just be sitting there empty otherwise (and they wouldn't want to get sued if they got it wrong).
So my point being that if this is a 1 in 3.5 year occurrence, it will still occur with about the same frequency even if there were more hospitals and beds, because demand for hospital beds will just expand to meet the supply.
The only way that you could guarantee that this wouldn't ever happen would be by building so many hospitals that demand elasticity wasn't a concern, but that level of capital expenditure and increased running cost would rapidly hasten the bankruptcy of the NHS (which, by the way is coming sooner or later, because of the ageing population and the prevalence of dementia, which hugely increases the cost and complexity of treatment - it is much harder to set an old lady's broken leg if she is trying to bite the nurses)
Surprising how badly the Tories are mishandling this story tbh. I would have expected a pivot to something Brexit-related by now instead of trying to fabricate a punchup in a car park or discredit the story of a mum with a sick child.
Their best shot today seems to have been the leaked “Corbyn is dangerous” tape but that doesn’t have much traction.
Maybe they’re saving up for tomorrow. All Labour really have to do now is repeat “NHS” in every interview for the next 24 hours.
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soz, missed Sumos thread before anyone starts...
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If fooking the country isn’t a game changer I doubt a photo will make much difference.
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you would think T Pot, but it took a photo to change the tone of debate about the refugee crisis when rational argument failed.
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shut up guy
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/09/refuses-to-look-at-picture-of-boy-forced-to-sleep-on-hospital-floor
Johnson is such an awful person. I just cannot see his appeal.
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you mean the picture of the child who died so his father could get his "free stuff" - in this case some new teeth?
That child on the beach was perfectly safe where he was - until he parents put him danger for their free stuff.
Then the picture was used by lefties to paint a different picture and if anyone mentioned the truth they'd get shouted down as racist.
That's how the left work.
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Yeah, Syria is well known to be very safe for kids.
I realise you are just a sock puppet, Funkhauser, but you are nonetheless a revolting specimen. The world would be better if someone set fire to you.
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Is there something odd about the photo?
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Orwell - the family was in Turkey where the kid's dad had been working for some years.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Alan_Kurdi
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Funkhouse, Blue Iguana.
If you do a bit of research it seems they did like 400,000 other Syrian refugees flee to Turkey, then return to Syria, then flee again. They were stuck in Turkey because they weren’t legally entitled to work although it seems he got some illegal, minimal or no wage work and he and his kids moved accommodation including sleeping rough and in toilets. His sister was in Canada and sending them money having moved over 20 years previous. They tried to get asylum in Canada but it was refused because you have to be declared a refugee by the Turkish government seemingly making it nigh on impossible. I dunno where this bit about dentistry comes into it but it just isn’t plausible to me that that would be the motivation for endangering his family like that, especially given the background to how they got there.
Funkhouser even if you take the view that the left has “exploited” the image (ok fine, people like playing politics) your cynical attitude towards the family is appalling. I just don’t think you can have even the slightest idea what it would be like to be displaced and trying to get your kids somewhere sustainable and safe. You should at least give them the benefit of the doubt until you are absolutely sure of your facts.
Honestly I just dunno how you can be happy with yourself spouting out views like that. Maybe you aren’t.
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Funkhouser your 16:46 is utterly retarded
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What Orwell said
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In fact no one believes that.
Only right wing twitter trolls believe it was a fraud.
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The sister at 'Leeds Hospital' has lots of friends.
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Where is 'Leeds Hospital'?
Releasing the Tory bots last night not the most intelligent move, just keeps the story running a bit longer, same as the claimed assault last night on Matt Hancocks Spad by a rent a mob of Communists.
Anyway doubt it will affect things much.
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It is not a fraud - but the NHS is huge weird bad shit will happen occasionally no matter who runs the country and how well it is funded - still people are stupid and if it helps prevent a Johnson majority - all’s fair and all that
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"It is not a fraud "
1. He did not have pneumonia.
2. He was not waiting for a bed - he had been discharged and was waiting to go home.
3. His parents put their coats on the floor for him to lie on and took a photo of it to give to the press.
4. Its fake news.
Odds on the parents being Labour supporters?
HTH
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Tory voters actually...
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source?
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It was in the original mirror article and in virtually all coverage since - they were Tory voters but changed their minds after this experience
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Ah you saying they are lying? Proof please
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I hope the boy at least recovers in time to fully enjoy Christmas.
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I despair.
This story is a microcosm of what is wrong with politics and public discourse.
The story is not fake. It is real. It was first reported by the Yorkshire Evening Post (a highly reputable paper) who had checked first with the hospital. The hospital confirmed the story is true. See:
https://twitter.com/DSheridanYEP/status/1204140106736656384
But look at the lies and misinformation that is being spread by those who want to have a Tory government. Some people say Dominic Cummings is behind it: I have no idea whether he is or not. But somebody is behind it, and that person wants to assist BJ to win this election.
https://twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1204183081009262592
Some people posting above should be ashamed of themselves. Whoever you vote for, we should not be spreading misinformation.
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It is a sad world where any story like this is assumed to be fake news.
See also Jez waving about papers saying it PROVED the NHS was for sale... no wonder there is no trust left at all.
The simple fact that no one would argue with is that A&E in the NHS is a fooking nightmare and needs to be sorted out. BUT - the hard facts are that it is a nightmare for a number of reasons and just throwing money at it will not fix them.
BUT LOOK A CHILD ON THE FLOOR childish ADHD simplistic bullshit soundbite shit is all that the media deal with now and 90% of people can get their heads round.
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*winks and taps nose to ???*
*awaits Alison Pearson article*
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Wibs it is not just the photo, it is Boris’ bizarre and unempathetic reaction to it, and complete failure to acknowledge that the tories have been in power for nearly ten years and do actually own this mess.
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"Boris’ bizarre and unempathetic reaction to it"
BUT LOOK HE PUT A PHONE IN HIS POKETESSSS AND WOULD NOT LOOK AT IT....
HE TUK HIS PHONEZ!
except... for the facts.
P.S. agreed boz is a weird aunt.
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There's a story due out tomorrow on this in the telegraph .
Is that the story Alison Pearson is going to run? She seems to have gone quiet on it since last night.
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I despair.
Well indeed but can we call our both sides please? You’re posting in a thread with a bullshit fake news title.
We have a situation where a boy with the flu spent four hours in between beds in a room which only had chairs in it on the busiest night the hospital has had in the past 3.5 years. It isn’t acceptable, we should be spending money to ensure this doesn’t happen again.
It shouldn’t be hard for both sides to cut the shit and be honest about it. But we’re in a situation where everything has to be weaponised and turned into bullshit.
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what arbiterofgoodtaste said
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Hear hear. I despise the Tory lies-wagon but blowing this out of all proportion/ context is pretty pathetic too
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Disagree
on one side people are using a true story to make political points about how run down the NHS is
on the other side people are making up stuff to discredit the true story
there is an important difference
More detail from the Yorkshire Evening Post on how they fact checked the story
https://twitter.com/JayMitchinson/status/1204344653174181888/photo/1
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Heff -
did the boy have pneumonia ?
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What ZG said. Boris could have owned this but instead he just looked like a right khunt.
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Has anyone seen the generic tweet sent out by numerous Cummingsbots which are cut and pasted "I used to be a PICU nurse..." and then go on to say Why This Is Not a True Story.
I'm at the wrong end of 40 and this is without a doubt the filthiest election I've ever known.
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Agree that this is unlikely to make any difference, but the Tory social media dirty tricks campaign has been out of control this year, and I think the blame can only be put on Cummings.
It's like a PR masterclass in how not to do things though
- PM does something characteristically stupid
- Send another minister along to try and defuse situation
- when that doesn't work, claim Labour sent organised violent protesters along and punched a Tory aide
- when that is proved to be bollocks, set up loads of bots to spread further lies
There's a good clip circulating of Steve Bray (aka 'Mr Stop Brexit') stopping Cummings in the street, and Cummings saying 'oh, I heard you had a hedge fund and a nice flat nearby'
He gets away with spouting any old bollocks because he can. The man is genuinely dangerous.
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Exactly what Queenie said
No one is being held to account for outright lies
It's becoming more and more like the Us every day
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" in Brexit Britain that’s what counts"
could you sound like more of a twot if you tried?
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wibble: according to the original article, he was admitted with suspected pneumonia at the suggestion of his GP and at hospital he was diagnosed with flu and tonsillitis
is your point that because the title of this thread says "pneumonia" rather than "suspected pneumonia" the OH is as blameworthy as those people spreading lies that the story has been fabricated?
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That is an excellent link Heff. Well worth reading folks.
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wibble 10 Dec 19 11:35
did the boy have pneumonia ?
____________________________________________________________
I suppose they give little kids oxygen masks for fun these days
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My point was that the thread title like 90% of lefties are lying that he had pneumonia.
People who are happy to lie have less credit when they point out other's lies.
HTH
"the pneumonia boy"
"4yr old boy with pneumonia"
"the boy with pneumonia"
"4 yr old boy suffering from pneumonia"
"4 yr old boy suffering from pneumonia is being treated on the floor of a hospital"
"Instead of focusing on the boy with pneumonia forced to sleep on the floor in A&E"
Heather Rufus Countess of Midlandshire
@Mike_Fabricant
he has just tweeted a malicious fake FB post suggesting that the mother of the 4yr old boy with pneumonia put him on the floor deliberately. That is how low Fabricant will stoop. He’s unfit for any public office.
134
Retweets
179
Likes
-----
Dr. Mark Redmond FRSA
@Drmarkredmond
·
1h
To the people who claimed this was a fake, I ask "What do you say now?" LGI bosses apologise after young boy with pneumonia forced to sleep on floor
--
RD Hale
#VoteLabour on 12th Dec 2019
@SkyeCity_
·
15h
Last time a senior Tory was confronted about an NHS scandal involving a child, Kuenssberg deflected with "This is him here" & piled on the father. This time she deflected from the pneumonia boy by claiming a protester punched Hancock's adviser.
--------
RD Hale
#VoteLabour on 12th Dec 2019
@SkyeCity_
·
16h
Laura Kuenssberg knew the story of the boy with pneumonia was true because she had video proof, but she also knew it would embarrass the Tories. Laura Kuenssberg didn't care if the story of Matt Hancock's advisor being punched was true because she knew it would embarrass Labour.====
Corbynator 2.0
@Corbynator2_0
·
20h
When a 4 yr old boy suffering from pneumonia is being treated on the floor of a hospital - I simply say this: 'The Tories have had 9 yrs to fund our NHS properly!' "It's time to bring their regime to an end!" - Jeremy Corbyn at Bristol rally.
Daniel Sean Dobinson
@DSDobinson
·
22h
Anyone considering voting Conservative ask yourself one thing, do you think this man or his government give a flying fook about you or your family. He doesn’t possess an ounce of compassion for anyone - let alone a 4 year old boy with pneumonia.
The Pileus
@thepileus
·
17h
The behaviour today of Robert Peston & Laura Kuenssberg was appalling Instead of focusing on the boy with pneumonia forced to sleep on the floor in A&E, they made false claims that people protesting that situation assaulted someone This isnt journalism. They aren't journalists
Liam Young
@liamyoung
·
17h
I’ll tell you what’s a pretty fooking ‘grim encounter’ - a 4 year old boy with pneumonia forced to sleep on the floor in A&E in the sixth richest country in the world.
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wtf?!?
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R u ok?
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heh - cutting and pasting from twitter has broken rof.
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wibble is a remarkably partisan tory for someone who claims not to be a tory isn’t he
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Erm I am pointing out the lies on both sides you fat ginger aunt, unlike heff for example.
hth
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I like the flowers.
On both sides.
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I only point out the lies on the opposite side of the argument to mine, generally.
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but thank you for being abusive
you are incapable of arguing at an intellectual level higher than the gutter
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"We have a situation where a boy with the flu spent four hours in between beds in a room which only had chairs in it on the busiest night the hospital has had in the past 3.5 years. It isn’t acceptable, we should be spending money to ensure this doesn’t happen again.
It shouldn’t be hard for both sides to cut the shit and be honest about it. But we’re in a situation where everything has to be weaponised and turned into bullshit."
How, exactly, do we spend enough money to ensure that, on the busiest night that a hospital had experienced in 3.5 years, there are enough beds so that a boy, who was not in fact diagnosed with pneumonia after all (and therefore did not need to be in hospital) did not have a bed to lie down in?
Presumably, the answer will come by building more hospitals with more beds. But if this was, as it is suggested, a peak demand crisis, then at first those beds would sit there empty. But not for long, because if a hospital has beds to admit patients to, and is in two minds about whether admission is really necessary, they are likely to decide to admit the patient to err on the safe side and, hey, the bed would just be sitting there empty otherwise (and they wouldn't want to get sued if they got it wrong).
So my point being that if this is a 1 in 3.5 year occurrence, it will still occur with about the same frequency even if there were more hospitals and beds, because demand for hospital beds will just expand to meet the supply.
The only way that you could guarantee that this wouldn't ever happen would be by building so many hospitals that demand elasticity wasn't a concern, but that level of capital expenditure and increased running cost would rapidly hasten the bankruptcy of the NHS (which, by the way is coming sooner or later, because of the ageing population and the prevalence of dementia, which hugely increases the cost and complexity of treatment - it is much harder to set an old lady's broken leg if she is trying to bite the nurses)
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and people accuse me of chundering words
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so the false story lie was started by a hacker and has now been spread by various people including Allison Pearson and Kevin Pietersen :
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/10/woman-says-account-hacked-to-post-fake-story-about-hospital-boy
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Socialists wanting still higher taxpayer handouts becoming
desperate now
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HD - put that on a side of a bus - not too late.
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Surprising how badly the Tories are mishandling this story tbh. I would have expected a pivot to something Brexit-related by now instead of trying to fabricate a punchup in a car park or discredit the story of a mum with a sick child.
Their best shot today seems to have been the leaked “Corbyn is dangerous” tape but that doesn’t have much traction.
Maybe they’re saving up for tomorrow. All Labour really have to do now is repeat “NHS” in every interview for the next 24 hours.
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