At least in the UK in the last generation. For the first time since 1983, people are passionate about politics and there's clear water between the parties. It's probably the first time in my voting life I'm actually enthusiastic about the Conservative Party.
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and like '83 will lead to the glorious conservative majority this country needs
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I'd have voted SDP in '83.
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Any one who is "actually enthusiastic about the Conservative Party" given what an utter joke they are is a dick.
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no it isn't
Boris is going to win by 60+
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Boris is a UK version of Trump.
He has no respect for the truth at all. Not saying the other options are any less shit but if he wins, its going to be well shit.
Possibly less shit than otherwise, but there is fook all to be actually enthusiastic about
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Dux: Oh I'm such a centrist!
Also Dux: I can't wait to vote for the most extreme right wing Tory party in living memory.
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Clubbers, the Tories have managed a majority in two out of the last 25 years and during that time they managed to fook the country up beyond all recognition.
Most of them shouldn't be allowed to cross the road without adult supervision, much less run the country.
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I love this election.
The media hate it.
That commends it to me yet further still.
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Can you give an example of one of these "extreme right wing" policies?
The only area I can think of is law and order but, even here, they're less Right than the country.
Anything else?
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Didn't we do this a couple of weeks back?
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we've tried the tories and they've just gradually put this country into decline year after year - why anyone wants to vote for them and have more of the same I'll never know they're liars and they're shit
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This election all options and almost all candidates are utter sh1te.
UK democracy needs to massively up its game in terms of parties and candidates otherwise more and more just won't bother taking part.
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This is the opposite. It is the worst election in living memory.
At a time of potentially great upheaval and seismic change to the direction the country might be taking, the nation is being presented with a choice of staggering paucity.
Not since Graham Taylor wrestled with the decision as to whether Carlton Palmer or Jeff Thomas was the midfield maestro of the hour have our choices or prospects looked so bleak.
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3 dux - there is a one nation smoke screen but the brexit project particularly the sort the erg controlled Tory party will usher in is an alt right project to turn us into a deregulated offshore tax haven
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Shall we go with taking a chunk off the country’s economy and condemning large numbers of people to unemployment and poverty for purely ideological reasons?
Also threatening news channels that have displeased them?
Threatening the judiciary?
Extreme enough for you?
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There was certainly a real passion and choice with the 1997 election.
Whether Blair's government achieved what it should have done is a separate question but the mood of the country was entirely different and much more can do positive in 1997 (and arguably 1983 agreed) than it is now.
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A Home Secretary who wants to bring back capital punishment?
A Prime Minister who treats EU nationals in the UK as though they are unwanted vermin who need to be hounded out?
A government looking to curtail the rights of citizens to bring judicial review actions against the government?
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Is this a Brexit thing? Because as far as I can see from their manifesto it's one of the softest, least Thatcherite ones in recent memory.
If this is a reference to the off-the-cuff comment about reviewing Channel 4's broadcasting licence? It's not official policy and in any event I'm not sure this is really a Left-Right issue, it's just a bit petulant.
You'll have to elucidate. I haven't seen that anywhere in the manifesto.
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What I wouldn't give to be choosing between Major and Blair, rather than Johnson and Corbyn.
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Of course it's a Brexit thing, numbnuts.
Just because it's not currently "official policy" doesn't mean it's not a threat. They're also threatening to abolish the BBC licence fee, presumably because they don't want taxpayers to fund a national broadcaster with a duty of impartiality, despite the fact that the BBC have actually done them some massive favours by going soft on the Tory government lies.
Again, just because it's not in the manifesto doesn't mean it's not a very real threat.
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Come back Alan and fvcking save us. Maybe next time. Talk about a leader born in the wrong decade...
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This is a matter of private conscience, not official policy. In any event, I already gave a caveat for law and order.
You'll have to show me that bit in the manifesto. If you're referring to the decision not to grant EU nationals a vote in the referendum, I don't think it's particularly controversial, it had more broad cross-party support, and to do otherwise would have broken with precedent.
Again, this is not a Left-Right issue.
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Then can you point to the source for your concern?
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I too am confused about this
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/election-2019-johnson-vows-end-to-migrants-treating-britain-as-their-own-nczv7r97n?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1575855443
Then shall we call it a fascist versus non fascist issue?
Everything the Tories say and do is my source.
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The judiciary threat is in the manifesto with a fig leaf of ‘we may need this for national security’.
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Of course, it's got nothing to do with the fact that Theresa May and Boris Johnson have led a weak government with no majority, but both wanted to force through what they wanted without the approval of parliament (which they knew they couldn't get), and then when they were quite rightly slapped down by the courts, the response is not "perhaps I should learn from this and behave less like a tinpot dictator" but "I want to remove the power of the courts to slap me down when I ride roughshod over the constitution".
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What I wouldn't give to be choosing between Major and Blair, rather than Johnson and Corbyn
What I wouldn't give to be choosing between Johnson, Corbyn and (either of Major and Blair) tbh.
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But if Johnson was leader of the Tories and Corbyn was leader of Labour, who would Blair/Major be leading?
I'd happily vote for a party led by Major or Blair right now, but under the FPTP system they wouldn't get anywhere. I suspect either would get far more votes as a Lib Dem leader than Swinson will manage though.
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And yes, the irony of talking about Blair and Major as though they are similar when at the time they were political opponents is not lost on me.
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Best?
It's dirty, depressing and utterly base.
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If Major and Blair are at the wing roots of the British political bird, Corbyn and Johnson are the wing tip feathers. You don't want to be standing under that as it flies overhead*.
*with apologies and credit to P J O'Rourke
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It's been the worst campaign ever to be honest.
- Main parties both hopeless in policy/reality terms (save for the Lib Dems, arguably).
- Endless "debates" on the tele where we learn nowt
- Rolling 24 hour news schedules engendering crappy reporting from journalists who should know better
- Lies/promises/counterlies made willy nilly
- Social media full of stupid tribalism
- Violence against candidates going about their lawful business
Democracy in its current state in this country is done. We need a better way
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"we've tried the tories and they've just gradually put this country into decline year after year"
Memories are very short, aren't they? The reasons why "austerity" (which, by the way, wasn't really austerity, in terms of overall government spending for most of the time) had to be introduced was because the Labour government got a bit too free with the cash between 2001 to 2007, and didn't do anything to properly regulate the banks, which then went crash, requiring a bailout and taking down large parts of the economy. When the Tories and Lib Dems took over in 2010, the outgoing Labour government left a note in the Treasury saying ("Sorry, all the money's gone!").
The Coalition government, and then the Tories, spent nine years getting the budget deficit under control, and slowing down the rate at which the national debt was growing, to the point where, to reflect the public desire for more public spending, the purse strings can be loosened a bit (albeit at the expense of a larger budget deficit).
For much of this period, by the way, total government spending did not, in fact go down, even adjusted for inflation. This is because debt interest payments, public sector and national pensions, combined with ever increasing social care and NHS costs associated with an ageing population, meant that you had to spend more on these items just to honour existing pension commitments and maintain some sort of acceptable care standards. Other sectors of public spending had to bear the brunt of the cuts.
Within about 2 years of 2010 the Labour decided that people's memories were so short that they could start wittering on about Tory "austerity" but the reality is that the Labour party itself contributed to the problem.
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Blair and Brown broke the economy.
True Facts.
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At least they spent it on things that were intended to benefit people, unlike the eyewatering amounts of cash that have been and continue to be spaffed on a pointless Tory Brexit
Not sure it's fair to blame Labour for the global economic crisis, especially when the Tories were calling for less regulation of the banks
And now the money is even more gone. Not sure where they have found the magic money tree to pay for Brexit though.
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