The whole thing is such a mess. Am I right in think the Kurds were basically trying to set up an independent state in northern Syria and now the Turks are laying the smack down
This is really not good at all. Too many fronts are opening up at once in the middle east. There is a real, rapidly growing sense that things could get out of control.
Looks like he's landed the Kurds in it a bit. The Middle East is a mess anyway. God knows why anyone would choose to live there, other than cheap domestic labour.
Was this latest move by Trump designed to ensure the revival of ISIS, creating the pretext, at some point soon, for a new hot war of sufficient scale to satisfy the military-industrial complex?
Classic dux. The middle east is where the proxy wars are fought that keep the likes of you in aspic. The Kurds have been shafted. It's utterly disgusting.
Gonna be fun fun fun when the kurds release all the ISIS prisoners and join forces with them to fight the turks. It’s almost as if America learned nothing from its flirtation with the mujahedeen.
One of the few benefits of an even more authoritarian UK govt would be the internment of terrorists to keep them off the streets and away from inspiring the youth.
Was this latest move by Trump designed to ensure the revival of ISIS, creating the pretext, at some point soon, for a new hot war of sufficient scale to satisfy the military-industrial complex?
or to satisfy US voters in time for the next election?
I don't think Trump was trying to be clever here. Erdogan is fecking nuts. I think he told Turmp he was going to go in regardless of whether or not Trump shifted his troops out of the way first and trump bottled it.
I think the point was that having a NATO ally in there - one that happens to be the most muscular military power on the planet by some margin - was stopping the Turks piling in. The force was there as a deterrent to conflict, rather than with the aim of winning any particular conflict.
Anyway, something to be said for letting bumptious minor countries try their hand with foreign policy adventurism, so they learn their lesson. When the turks fook up it will discredit Erdogan and probably result in his long-overdue defenestration.
What Laz said. It's generally bad form for NATO members to bomb the sh1t out of places where there are US troops even if it's only a relatively small number of US troops.
This has total clusterfvck written all over it. The Turks have a massive standing army but the Kurds are reasonably well armed, well trained and extremely battle hardened.
An ugly assymetrical war which the supposedly superior force will slowly lose, leaving a lawless zone of chaos in which extremism will thrive. The Mujahedeen didn’t even have that much excuse for hating the West - the Kurds will have ample now that the US has sold them down the river. The only good thing that can possibly come of this is Erdogan getting w slap round the chops and being forced to resign.
I mean, there are between 80,000 and 100,000 ISIS prisoners in the Kurdish-held areas, of whom many are still quite fighty I’d imagine, and a good proportion of whom have received some form of military and weapons training.
What would you do with them, if you were the Kurds, given that you’re going to have the masses ranks of the Turkish army trying to rain fiery death on you? One thing I’d consider is saying: hey guys how about an amnesty if you come and join our team?
Laz, Turkey and ISIS are more or less the same thing. Turkey enabled ISIS. They financed them (mainly by buying their oil, and fvck sanctions). They sold/gave them arms and food. They allowed foreign Jihadis to enter ISIS-controlled areas in Syria and N Iraq via Turkey. They stopped US aid to the Kurds fighting in Kobani (remember that?) reaching the Kurds via Turkey. They (at least insofar as Erdogan's party is concerned) share most of their ideology.
If anyone's going to free the ISIS prisoners (and to weaponise them), it's not going to be the Kurds. It'll be Turkey.
The Syria conflict is at heart a proxy war between Iran and Saudi, with Iran now on the verge of winning. But US, Turkey, Russia, Israel all have their own sometimes conflicting interests.
0
0
The whole thing is such a mess. Am I right in think the Kurds were basically trying to set up an independent state in northern Syria and now the Turks are laying the smack down
0
0
On Twitter Mr erdogan said...
Oh ff actual sake.
But welly has summed up my knowledge of it
0
0
Rojava. Given their political philosophy it's not surprising the US has ultimately stabbed them in the back.
0
0
US withdrawal has nothing to do with US missile bases in turkey of course
0
0
Although do they actually have missiles there anymore?
helpful for my narrative if they do
0
0
This is really not good at all. Too many fronts are opening up at once in the middle east. There is a real, rapidly growing sense that things could get out of control.
0
0
Looks like he's landed the Kurds in it a bit. The Middle East is a mess anyway. God knows why anyone would choose to live there, other than cheap domestic labour.
0
0
Was this latest move by Trump designed to ensure the revival of ISIS, creating the pretext, at some point soon, for a new hot war of sufficient scale to satisfy the military-industrial complex?
0
0
Doubt it. Trump's an isolationist, or purports to be.
0
0
That will serve those Kurdish buggers right for the shameful way they ducked out of the D Day landings.
0
0
Classic dux. The middle east is where the proxy wars are fought that keep the likes of you in aspic. The Kurds have been shafted. It's utterly disgusting.
0
0
As a stateless people, I'm unclear what they could have done to help.
0
0
Trump *says* he’s an isolationist...
0
0
I agree.
0
0
Gonna be fun fun fun when the kurds release all the ISIS prisoners and join forces with them to fight the turks. It’s almost as if America learned nothing from its flirtation with the mujahedeen.
0
0
One of the few benefits of an even more authoritarian UK govt would be the internment of terrorists to keep them off the streets and away from inspiring the youth.
0
0
hmmmmmmmmmmmm
0
0
or to satisfy US voters in time for the next election?
0
0
I don't think Trump was trying to be clever here. Erdogan is fecking nuts. I think he told Turmp he was going to go in regardless of whether or not Trump shifted his troops out of the way first and trump bottled it.
0
0
It would have been piss funny if Erdogan had replied to Trump’s INFINITELY WISE OBLITERATOR tweet with:
LOL
0
0
Were there only fifty US soldiers there?
If so, that's purely token even in some training/advisory role.
'Either get stuck in or get out of the way' is always good advice to bystanders at a street brawl let alone a full scale long-running conflict
0
0
I think the point was that having a NATO ally in there - one that happens to be the most muscular military power on the planet by some margin - was stopping the Turks piling in. The force was there as a deterrent to conflict, rather than with the aim of winning any particular conflict.
0
0
Anyway, something to be said for letting bumptious minor countries try their hand with foreign policy adventurism, so they learn their lesson. When the turks fook up it will discredit Erdogan and probably result in his long-overdue defenestration.
0
0
What Laz said. It's generally bad form for NATO members to bomb the sh1t out of places where there are US troops even if it's only a relatively small number of US troops.
This has total clusterfvck written all over it. The Turks have a massive standing army but the Kurds are reasonably well armed, well trained and extremely battle hardened.
0
0
What laz said the first time, NOT the second time.
0
0
It will be like the Russians in afghanistan.
An ugly assymetrical war which the supposedly superior force will slowly lose, leaving a lawless zone of chaos in which extremism will thrive. The Mujahedeen didn’t even have that much excuse for hating the West - the Kurds will have ample now that the US has sold them down the river. The only good thing that can possibly come of this is Erdogan getting w slap round the chops and being forced to resign.
0
0
I mean, there are between 80,000 and 100,000 ISIS prisoners in the Kurdish-held areas, of whom many are still quite fighty I’d imagine, and a good proportion of whom have received some form of military and weapons training.
What would you do with them, if you were the Kurds, given that you’re going to have the masses ranks of the Turkish army trying to rain fiery death on you? One thing I’d consider is saying: hey guys how about an amnesty if you come and join our team?
0
0
Laz, Turkey and ISIS are more or less the same thing. Turkey enabled ISIS. They financed them (mainly by buying their oil, and fvck sanctions). They sold/gave them arms and food. They allowed foreign Jihadis to enter ISIS-controlled areas in Syria and N Iraq via Turkey. They stopped US aid to the Kurds fighting in Kobani (remember that?) reaching the Kurds via Turkey. They (at least insofar as Erdogan's party is concerned) share most of their ideology.
If anyone's going to free the ISIS prisoners (and to weaponise them), it's not going to be the Kurds. It'll be Turkey.
0
0
The Syria conflict is at heart a proxy war between Iran and Saudi, with Iran now on the verge of winning. But US, Turkey, Russia, Israel all have their own sometimes conflicting interests.
0
0
This diagram is handy
https://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/25/middleeast/syria-isis-whos-fighting-who-trnd/index.html
Join the discussion