If you have a burning vocational desire then you might enjoy it. Money isn’t bad compared to the entry requirements and T&Cs, particularly holidays and pensions. Certainly isn’t lucrative mind.
A great deal of teachers do struggle enormously with pressure and stress though. Whether that is objectively justified by comparison to other professions or whether that is simply because they live in a giant echo chamber where they and their unions all convince themselves they’re really hard done by and underappreciated, it doesn’t really matter. You also end up with some proper wrong uns in management and HT positions.
But to look at it another way then if you are a whinging bastard with a huge chip on your shoulder and a penchant for belittling people (as most of RoF seem to be) then it’s probably the job for you.
I'm not sure the money is that bad, if you rise through the ranks - the headteacher at a friend's sister school is on 250k, and the CEO of the academy trust is on 550k.
Clearly, those are outliers, but even a head of department seems to make decent money, and yes, it's not easy at all, but it is still working for about 36 weeks a year, or something, isn't it?
It's incredibly stressful and the days are very long indeed. A typical day for someone with a SLT position would be 7AM to 5.30/6PM Monday to Friday. Waking up at 5.45AM daily is fucking grim and the holidays truly are needed - they are absolutely exhausted by the end of term. There is a lot of fire fighting and the more senior you get the less you get to see the enjoyable parts of your job i.e. teaching.
That said, there is something instantly rewarding about the profession and making a direct impact on little lives. Great transferable skills.
I act for loads of large MATs and none of the CEOs earn anywhere near half of £550k. Most are on a quarter to a third of that. And these are MATs with between 15 and 50 schools, so from one perspective they are running businesses worth at least tens of millions of pounds and quite possibly hundreds of millions.
Maximum HT pay under the national collective agreement for teachers is around £120k (based on pupil numbers) with discretion for governors to exceed by 25% I believe.
There is a lot of similarity between health and education with pay.
Like exec directors at NHS trusts, senior leaders at MATs are some of the most hardworking people you will meet who are also susceptible to being torn to pieces in the media whether it’s deserved or not. They earn good money but there are far easier professions that pay as well.
Like nurses, teachers are not paid a fortune but actually the salary is pretty decent when you think that you can get into the profession even if you’re thick and the ancillary T&Cs are the best you’ll find anywhere.
The main difference I’ve found is that you’re much more likely to encounter a teacher who has fallen into the profession and doesn’t give a shit about kids’ education than you are a nurse of doctor who is ambivalent as to patient care.
One of the aspects of teaching is that many teachers work long hours because of work load but also out of anxiety. There is no much of a requirement to be efficient (there’s no time recording or measurement of utilisation) and work tends to be be a bit open ended and expands to fill the space. Outputs in terms of exam results are clear but at a point in the future rather than immediate. Inputs can a bit vague. A lot of SLT members - a lot of teachers for that matter - won’t just clock off at 6pm Monday to Friday. They will work evenings and weekend too.. They tend to live and breathe the school 24/7.
My dad went back into teaching for a year or two in his 60s. He started very enthusiastically but in the end I never saw him more down and depressed. He was at a comp favoured by travellers.
Remembering how you treated your teachers as a teenager should be enough to put you off.
Ex of mine was head of art of head of year group in a private school and shed work reasonably hard during term time but every summer would gladly head off on an adventure like the trans Siberian express for a month.
I’ve taught, it’s hard work and not in a good way. Blozzing conf calls and pissing about with drafting is not even close to comparable. And that’s the good bit before you go into management.
"Sorry cruella that’s total bollocks. These days they work full time even when you think they’re on hols sorry." Erm, no need to be sorry, mate, it's not like I'm the patron saint of anti-teachers or something.
All I can say is that I am very close with 4 teachers (all heads of department, busy as hell during term time, no question), and none of them work through their holidays, apart from, perhaps, a week before term starts, when they start preparing for term. Perhaps they're just lucky, who knows, but that's their experience anyway.
People rarely just fall into teaching nowadays they normally have a huge passion for it.One of my lifelong friends, was qualified into what was a huge sink school in East London, he rose to Head of Department ( English ) in 6 years. He then had a stint at Charterhouse we each described as boring as hell. Pushy parents, arrogant self entitled students, and huge inquiries if a student got more than 2 B grades a term. He would be answering emails constantly from parents at all hours.
He then left for a stint in Dubai, at double salary , free apartment for two years, and then was head hunted as Deputy Head of a medium size school in the north West which was in special measures. He became Head 2 years later, took the school out of special measures, but he tell me the pressure, the admin, form filling, the hiting and firing of staff was intolerable. He resigned and was offered the Head Position which he tells me was even worse. He missed the teaching more than anything. He is now Dept Head where he focuses mainly on teaching and loves it.
I think he was on about 80k when working in the North West.
I enjoyed it a lot when I did it as a career a while back, but got out the profession early as I saw too many disillusioned and burnt out middle aged teachers desperate for a career change but not knowing what to do. Also, many of my mates had already moved to London and were working in City firms, so I decided to join them.
To OP, I would recommend you milk some contacts and go and get yourself a week or twos experience at different schools, get in a classroom and see what it’s like.
I did this at a career cross roads a while back and decided not to pursue it as I wasn’t struck by the bug and had bills to pay.
I think it suffers from the usual problem of professions which is that a lot go into it because they actually like teaching, but to earn more money you have to do things that fundamentally don’t have much to do with teaching ie manage people, budgets etc. Plus in England the regulation is such that there is so much admin as a classroom teacher that it’s a pita to keep up with it all - the curriculum is so unbelievably prescriptive these days
my sister is a teacher and she absolutely does not work holidays. She’ll go in for a couple of days maybe and catch up but no more than that. She seems to work 8-5pm three days and then will do a couple of longer days a week (730-630). Offset by staff drinks on Friday that start at 330pm and everyone’s blotto by 4pm. The most stressed I’ve ever seen her was when she was a headteacher. She lasted 3 years and then sacked it in and went back to being a rank and file teacher (albeit with SLT type responsibilities).
Toronto, I get that as I say, my mate was deputy head, then ultimately Head at a school in special measures, as I say he took them out of that and his stock price rose as a consequence, but the stress and the hours, yes the hours were crippling . He cited being pulled in all directions from people with conflicting agendas.
He loved Dubai, double salary, little or no admin, and he saved a few quid, as he literally had no expenses apart from food.
Being a head teacher is in the main unimaginably stressful , not so much if you are a t a major public school.
If he was Head ebitda who was hiring and firing the staff??
also I know 6 teachers and I would describe 5 of them as having fallen into it. not saying that is a representative figure but I think the level of burnout is reflective of the proportion of people who go into the profession without that much vocational desire to balance out the stress that they encounter.
aviator teachers do get pushed out (in academies at least) for being shit teachers. Not fired though, given settlement agreements which typically include notice (anywhere between 2-7 months depending on time of year) plus an extra month or two. Teachers’ notice periods, ridiculous sick pay entitlements and militant unions make it incredibly difficult to ‘sack’ an underperforming teacher. Just doesn’t really happen.
FAOD I completely agree that whilst many teachers spout nonsense about their hours then the job of a headteacher is undeniably incredibly stressful and immensely hard work.
I am a teacher. Much on this thread is total bollocks. But, heh, this is rof.
The classroom experience is great on the whole assuming your have the stamina for it.
Sadly, senior managers become obsessed with short term monitoring and assessment outcomes and morph from excellent classroom teachers (on the whole) to data monkeys and (on occasion) total spineless tossers.
if you become tired with the great intellectual challenge of drafting crap severance agreements or leases for chip shops then, yes, give teaching a go. Lawyers are mocked and despised on the whole but paid well. Teachers are just despised and mocked (see this thread).
Ah, one last point, the ‘generous’ teacher pensions mentioned by one wag above are about to disappear. They have already gone on many independent schools. The rest will soon follow suit.
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According to unions you are likely to die of CoVid
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most children are arseholes.
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If you have a burning vocational desire then you might enjoy it. Money isn’t bad compared to the entry requirements and T&Cs, particularly holidays and pensions. Certainly isn’t lucrative mind.
A great deal of teachers do struggle enormously with pressure and stress though. Whether that is objectively justified by comparison to other professions or whether that is simply because they live in a giant echo chamber where they and their unions all convince themselves they’re really hard done by and underappreciated, it doesn’t really matter. You also end up with some proper wrong uns in management and HT positions.
I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole
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But to look at it another way then if you are a whinging bastard with a huge chip on your shoulder and a penchant for belittling people (as most of RoF seem to be) then it’s probably the job for you.
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That is a bag of sh1te, right there, and even the most diligent parent will tell you that it is a bag of sh1te.
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It's a lot of work for not nearly enough money and you can only go on holiday when it's expensive and you'll be surrounded by other people's brats.
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I'm not sure the money is that bad, if you rise through the ranks - the headteacher at a friend's sister school is on 250k, and the CEO of the academy trust is on 550k.
Clearly, those are outliers, but even a head of department seems to make decent money, and yes, it's not easy at all, but it is still working for about 36 weeks a year, or something, isn't it?
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Sorry cruella that’s total bollocks. These days they work full time even when you think they’re on hols sorry.
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Basically the same as having a kid Anna.
Apart from you don't get paid. In fact I think it's actually costing me money.
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£550k ffs, academies are such a fucking scam.
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It's incredibly stressful and the days are very long indeed. A typical day for someone with a SLT position would be 7AM to 5.30/6PM Monday to Friday. Waking up at 5.45AM daily is fucking grim and the holidays truly are needed - they are absolutely exhausted by the end of term. There is a lot of fire fighting and the more senior you get the less you get to see the enjoyable parts of your job i.e. teaching.
That said, there is something instantly rewarding about the profession and making a direct impact on little lives. Great transferable skills.
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I act for loads of large MATs and none of the CEOs earn anywhere near half of £550k. Most are on a quarter to a third of that. And these are MATs with between 15 and 50 schools, so from one perspective they are running businesses worth at least tens of millions of pounds and quite possibly hundreds of millions.
Maximum HT pay under the national collective agreement for teachers is around £120k (based on pupil numbers) with discretion for governors to exceed by 25% I believe.
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0
There is a lot of similarity between health and education with pay.
Like exec directors at NHS trusts, senior leaders at MATs are some of the most hardworking people you will meet who are also susceptible to being torn to pieces in the media whether it’s deserved or not. They earn good money but there are far easier professions that pay as well.
Like nurses, teachers are not paid a fortune but actually the salary is pretty decent when you think that you can get into the profession even if you’re thick and the ancillary T&Cs are the best you’ll find anywhere.
The main difference I’ve found is that you’re much more likely to encounter a teacher who has fallen into the profession and doesn’t give a shit about kids’ education than you are a nurse of doctor who is ambivalent as to patient care.
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You might end up teaching at Boston Spa Compound.
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I imagine it’s hellish during term-time, but I’d love it in the holidays.
I dont believe teachers spend all their holiday time working. No teacher I have ever known did/does this.
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One of the aspects of teaching is that many teachers work long hours because of work load but also out of anxiety. There is no much of a requirement to be efficient (there’s no time recording or measurement of utilisation) and work tends to be be a bit open ended and expands to fill the space. Outputs in terms of exam results are clear but at a point in the future rather than immediate. Inputs can a bit vague. A lot of SLT members - a lot of teachers for that matter - won’t just clock off at 6pm Monday to Friday. They will work evenings and weekend too.. They tend to live and breathe the school 24/7.
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Find a teacher who's really happy to give you the lowdown.
When you can't, give up the idea.
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My dad went back into teaching for a year or two in his 60s. He started very enthusiastically but in the end I never saw him more down and depressed. He was at a comp favoured by travellers.
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That was a lifestyle choice you made, Raddy.
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Pinkus m3, does it not make you sad that you begrudge the child that you have brought into the world?
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Remembering how you treated your teachers as a teenager should be enough to put you off.
Ex of mine was head of art of head of year group in a private school and shed work reasonably hard during term time but every summer would gladly head off on an adventure like the trans Siberian express for a month.
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I’ve taught, it’s hard work and not in a good way. Blozzing conf calls and pissing about with drafting is not even close to comparable. And that’s the good bit before you go into management.
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"Sorry cruella that’s total bollocks. These days they work full time even when you think they’re on hols sorry." Erm, no need to be sorry, mate, it's not like I'm the patron saint of anti-teachers or something.
All I can say is that I am very close with 4 teachers (all heads of department, busy as hell during term time, no question), and none of them work through their holidays, apart from, perhaps, a week before term starts, when they start preparing for term. Perhaps they're just lucky, who knows, but that's their experience anyway.
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People rarely just fall into teaching nowadays they normally have a huge passion for it.One of my lifelong friends, was qualified into what was a huge sink school in East London, he rose to Head of Department ( English ) in 6 years. He then had a stint at Charterhouse we each described as boring as hell. Pushy parents, arrogant self entitled students, and huge inquiries if a student got more than 2 B grades a term. He would be answering emails constantly from parents at all hours.
He then left for a stint in Dubai, at double salary , free apartment for two years, and then was head hunted as Deputy Head of a medium size school in the north West which was in special measures. He became Head 2 years later, took the school out of special measures, but he tell me the pressure, the admin, form filling, the hiting and firing of staff was intolerable. He resigned and was offered the Head Position which he tells me was even worse. He missed the teaching more than anything. He is now Dept Head where he focuses mainly on teaching and loves it.
I think he was on about 80k when working in the North West.
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I enjoyed it a lot when I did it as a career a while back, but got out the profession early as I saw too many disillusioned and burnt out middle aged teachers desperate for a career change but not knowing what to do. Also, many of my mates had already moved to London and were working in City firms, so I decided to join them.
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To OP, I would recommend you milk some contacts and go and get yourself a week or twos experience at different schools, get in a classroom and see what it’s like.
I did this at a career cross roads a while back and decided not to pursue it as I wasn’t struck by the bug and had bills to pay.
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I think it was catching a re run of CH.4s Teachers that brought this on
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"...firing of staff...".
Not for being shit teachers though.
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I think it suffers from the usual problem of professions which is that a lot go into it because they actually like teaching, but to earn more money you have to do things that fundamentally don’t have much to do with teaching ie manage people, budgets etc. Plus in England the regulation is such that there is so much admin as a classroom teacher that it’s a pita to keep up with it all - the curriculum is so unbelievably prescriptive these days
my sister is a teacher and she absolutely does not work holidays. She’ll go in for a couple of days maybe and catch up but no more than that. She seems to work 8-5pm three days and then will do a couple of longer days a week (730-630). Offset by staff drinks on Friday that start at 330pm and everyone’s blotto by 4pm. The most stressed I’ve ever seen her was when she was a headteacher. She lasted 3 years and then sacked it in and went back to being a rank and file teacher (albeit with SLT type responsibilities).
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Toronto, I get that as I say, my mate was deputy head, then ultimately Head at a school in special measures, as I say he took them out of that and his stock price rose as a consequence, but the stress and the hours, yes the hours were crippling . He cited being pulled in all directions from people with conflicting agendas.
He loved Dubai, double salary, little or no admin, and he saved a few quid, as he literally had no expenses apart from food.
Being a head teacher is in the main unimaginably stressful , not so much if you are a t a major public school.
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If he was Head ebitda who was hiring and firing the staff??
also I know 6 teachers and I would describe 5 of them as having fallen into it. not saying that is a representative figure but I think the level of burnout is reflective of the proportion of people who go into the profession without that much vocational desire to balance out the stress that they encounter.
aviator teachers do get pushed out (in academies at least) for being shit teachers. Not fired though, given settlement agreements which typically include notice (anywhere between 2-7 months depending on time of year) plus an extra month or two. Teachers’ notice periods, ridiculous sick pay entitlements and militant unions make it incredibly difficult to ‘sack’ an underperforming teacher. Just doesn’t really happen.
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FAOD I completely agree that whilst many teachers spout nonsense about their hours then the job of a headteacher is undeniably incredibly stressful and immensely hard work.
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Ebit I’m no employment lawyer but I think hitting and firing teachers is frowned on...
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nb I am married to a teacher and have been a governor of two schools, one special needs, for years. But thanks.
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Indeed Sails
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You’re welcome
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I am a teacher. Much on this thread is total bollocks. But, heh, this is rof.
The classroom experience is great on the whole assuming your have the stamina for it.
Sadly, senior managers become obsessed with short term monitoring and assessment outcomes and morph from excellent classroom teachers (on the whole) to data monkeys and (on occasion) total spineless tossers.
if you become tired with the great intellectual challenge of drafting crap severance agreements or leases for chip shops then, yes, give teaching a go. Lawyers are mocked and despised on the whole but paid well. Teachers are just despised and mocked (see this thread).
Ah, one last point, the ‘generous’ teacher pensions mentioned by one wag above are about to disappear. They have already gone on many independent schools. The rest will soon follow suit.
Join the discussion