And a follow up question:

What, if any, military action do you think any given country X would be entitled to take against any other country (or autonomous/semi-autonomous region) Y in response to an attack on similar facts to October 7th?

You'd want to knock their heads together. Look you guys have been blockading Gaza for years. People are starving and you have created a humanitarian crisis. This was bound to spill over at some point. Do a deal. Get off their land.  Stop listening to the right wing nut jobs. Get rid of them. Israel you have a choice.  Everyone always has a choice when it comes to war crimes. That includes everyone from Russian conscripts to prison camp guards in WW2. 

Take the land, officially annex the land, execute every Hamas member, and eradicate the culture through permanent re-education.

This is a thread for closet anti-semites Unwalt. Poor effort. RTQ.   

We'll  overlook the complete failure to answer the question

Look you guys have been blockading Gaza for years.

By "you guys" you mean...Israel and Egypt, right? Because both Egypt and Israel have been blockading Gaza to some extent since 2007. So just to be clear, its not a Jew v Muslim thing. It's a terrorist thing. The reason that Israel and Egypt blockaded Gaza after Hamas took over is because, Hamas is a fascist death cult that wants to exterminate Israel and foment an Islamist takeover of Egypt.

 People are starving 

Not before October 7th they weren't. 

and you have created a humanitarian crisis.

Who? Israel or Hamas? and what do you mean by a "humanitarian crisis"? Is 1,200 murdered people and 240 kidnapped people in a single day NOT a humanitarian crisis? Or do you simply mean the humanitarian crisis that resulted from Israel retaliatory military action? In which case, given that there will always be some humanitarian crisis as a result of any military action, unless you think that no-one is ever entitled 

 This was bound to spill over at some point.

Just like Europe in the 1930s. So what? The mere fact that conflict might be inevitable does not mean that you are not entitled to defend yourself. 

Do a deal.

 You cannot do a deal with people who want to exterminate you. Hamas's stated objective is the complete destruction of Israel (i.e. the massacre of all Jews). 

Get off their land.  

They did. The only Jews in Gaza are the 130 hostages.

Stop listening to the right wing nut jobs. 

WTF? Israel was attacked first. Not the other way around. And support for the war against Hamas within Israel unites left and right, Druze Jew and Muslim.

Get rid of them. 

I assume you mean Hamas?

Israel you have a choice.  

You're right. They do. Because unlike Gaza and almost every neighbouring country, Israel is a democracy. And they democratically and overwhelmingly choose war against Hamas to the bitter end. 

Everyone always has a choice when it comes to war crimes. That includes everyone from Russian conscripts to prison camp guards in WW2. 

What war crimes?

FAOD the following are NOT war crimes per se:

1. Attacking a civilian object that has lost its civilian status because it has been used for military purposes
2. Blockades
3. Sieges
4. A strike on a military object that causes civilian casualties as collateral damage.

You seem very certain. Remember when there was a peace process and hope. 

OPINION ARTICLE BY MAESTRO DANIEL BARENBOIM

The current events in Israel and Gaza have deeply shocked us all. There is no justification for Hamas' barbaric terrorist acts against civilians, including children and babies. We must acknowledge this, and pause. But then the next step is, of course, the question of: what now? Do we now surrender to this terrible violence and let our striving for peace "die" - or do we continue to insist that there must and can be peace?

I am convinced that we have to move on and keep the larger context of the conflict in mind. Our musicians of the West-Eastern Divan, our students in the Barenboim-Said Academy, they are almost all directly affected. Many of the musicians live in the region, and the others also have many ties to their homeland. This strengthens my conviction that there can only be one solution to this conflict: one on the basis of humanism, justice and equality - and without armed force and occupation.

Our message of peace must be louder than ever. The greatest danger is that all the people who so ardently desire peace will be drowned out by extremists and violence. But any analysis, any moral equation we might draw up, must have as its core this basic understanding: there are people on both sides. Humanity is universal and the recognition of this truth on both sides is the only way. The suffering of innocent people on either side is absolutely unbearable.

The images of the devastating terrorist attacks by Hamas break our hearts. Our reaction clearly shows: the willingness to empathise with the situation of others is essential. Of course, and especially now, one must also allow for emptions like fear, despair and anger - but the moment this leads us to deny each other humanity, we are lost. Every single person can make a difference and pass something on. This is how we change things on a small scale. On a large scale, it is up to politics.

We have to offer other perspectives to those who are attracted to extremism. After all, it is usually people who are completely without prospects, who are desperate, who devote themselves to murderous or extremist ideologies, who find a home there. Education and information are equally essential, because there are so many positions based on absolute misinformation.

To reiterate quite clearly: The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not a political conflict between two states over borders, water, oil or other resources. It is a deeply human conflict between two peoples who have known suffering and persecution. The persecution of the Jewish people over 20 centuries culminated in the Nazi ideology that murdered six million Jews. 

The Jewish people cherished a dream; a land of their own, a homeland for all Jews in what is now Palestine. But from this dream followed a deeply problematic, because fundamentally false, assumption: a land without a people for a people without a land. In reality, however, the Jewish population of Palestine during the First World War was only 9%. 91% of the population was therefore not Jewish, but Palestinian, grown over centuries. The country could hardly be called a "land without a people" and the Palestinian population saw no reason to give up their own land. The conflict was thus inevitable, and since its beginning the fronts have only hardened further over generations. I am convinced: the Israelis will have security when the Palestinians can feel hope, that is, justice. Both sides must recognise their enemies as human beings and try to empathise with their point of view, their pain and their hardship. Israelis must also accept that the occupation of Palestine is incompatible with this.

For my understanding of this more than 70-year-old conflict, my friendship with Edward Said is the key experience. We found in each other a counterpart who can take us further and help us to see the supposed other more clearly and understand him better. We have recognised and found each other in our common humanity. For me, our joint work with the West-Eastern Divan, which finds its logical continuation and perhaps even its culmination in the Barenboim-Said Academy, is probably the most important activity of my life.

In the current situation, we naturally ask ourselves about the significance of our joint work in both the orchestra and the academy. It may seem little - but the mere fact that Arab and Israeli musicians share a podium at every concert and make music together, that is of immense value to us. Over the years, through this commonality of music-making, but also through our countless, sometimes heated discussions, we have learned to better understand the supposed other, to approach them and to find common ground in our humanity and in music. We start and end all discussions, no matter how controversial, with the fundamental understanding that we are all equal human beings who deserve peace, freedom and happiness. 

This may sound naïve, but it is not: for it is this understanding that seems to be completely lost in the conflict on both sides today. Our experience shows that this message has reached many people in the region and around the world. We must, want and will continue to believe that music can bring us closer together in our humanity.

Daniel Barenboim

October 13, 2023

Haven't read most of this but very simply arrest or if they won't surrender kill any militants still in Israel then whilst continuing negotiations launch selected special forces raids to take out the masterminds of the incursion and recover hostages.

What, if any, military action do you think Israel was entitled to take against Hamas following the October 7th attacks, in which circa 1,200 people were murdered (overwhelmingly civilians) and circa 240 people, including small children were kidnapped?

ALL I KNOW IS THAT THE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DEAD PALESTINIAN CHILDREN HAS NOT SLAKED MY THIRST FOR VENGEANCE!!

NAY, AND NEITHER HAS THE THOUSANDS OF ORPHANED OR MAIMED PALESTINIAN CHILDREN, THEIR SHATTERED LIMBS BEING SAWN OFF IN HORRIFIC CONDITIONS WITH MINIMAL PAINKILLERS AND TREATMENT!!

THE BOMBING MUST CONTINUE!! THE BLOODSHED CANNOT CEASE!!

FOR A GREAT WRONG WAS DONE AND A GREAT PUNISHMENT MUST BE METED OUT !!

GOD IS GREAT! GOD IS GREAT! GOD IS GREAT!

Was going to answer the question, but then I realised, it isn't a question for me because I'm not an anti-semite, closeted or otherwise.

Hotblack Desiato 04 Dec 23 14:20

What, if any, military action do you think Israel was entitled to take against Hamas following the October 7th attacks, in which circa 1,200 people were murdered (overwhelmingly civilians) and circa 240 people, including small children were kidnapped?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

What military action did the U government take against Norther Ireland in respect of the various terrorist atrocities carried out by Christian Fundamentalists during the 1970s, 80s and 90s?

and how did the UK government manage to end the threat, squash the terrorists and bring peace to the UK ?

By praising some of the terrorists as great statesmen and 

ignoring reasonable claims for justice left right and centre 

We certainly didn't flatten Dublin and cut off supplies across the border from NI...

Get off their land.  

They did. The only Jews in Gaza are the 130 hostages.

There are quite a few Jewish settlers and scores of military/police in the oPt. Gaza and the West Bank aren't separate much as Israel would like people to think, even if governance is different. 

And what were settlers doing in Gaza anyway? 

I guess HBD is an example of why there's no peace. There must be Israelis unable to comprehend the gravity of the injustice Palestinians must feel if HBD can't accept that Israel is doing anything wrong and I'm assuming he isn't an Israeli living in Israel. 

What military action did the U government take against Norther Ireland in respect of the various terrorist atrocities carried out by Christian Fundamentalists during the 1970s, 80s and 90s?

here are all the casualties associated with the Troubles, both in NI and on the mainland, across 4 decades:

So Hamas killed more civilians in a single day than the IRA killed from 1967 to the 1990s.

And the IRA merely wanted independence from Britain. Hamas wants to kill all Jews. So not even remotely comparable.

Oh, and the Israeli population is only 10 million, whereas the UK population is 65 million, so in percentage terms it is orders of magnitude greater.

Haven't read most of this but very simply arrest or if they won't surrender kill any militants still in Israel then whilst continuing negotiations launch selected special forces raids to take out the masterminds of the incursion and recover hostages.

Unicorn land. Urban warfare against a fanatical enemy, who builds tunnels under civilian facilities and enjoys non-negligible support from the locals - you send small numbers of even special forces in, without extensive preparatory airstrikes and....they just get killed. 

So Hamas go entirely unpunished, they get the whole benefit of their human shield tactics, Israeli soldiers die in large numbers, the hostages don't get rescued, and Hamas continue their genocidal war.

Its a good job you aren't in charge of anything important.

You didn’t do very well on psychometric testing did you HB?

I guess HBD is an example of why there's no peace.

Not the racist holocaust denying propaganda spouted by Hamas run schools. Not the terrorist Iranian and Russian regimes funding and encouraging Hamas to destabilise Western democracy. No, just me suggesting that Israel shouldn't just allow a genocidal opponent to massacre its people.

That is why there isn't peace. 

Got it.

Thanks for clarifying.

You didn’t do very well on psychometric testing did you HB?

I do very well on psychometric testing thanks, because (a) they are bullsh1t and (b) it is obvious what features organisations want, and easy to engineer your answers to produce that outcome.

just me suggesting that Israel shouldn't just allow a genocidal opponent to massacre its people.

ANYTHING LESS THAN THE CURRENT LEVEL OF BLOODSHED BEING INFLICTED ON PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS - ONE LESS DEAD BABY, ONE LESS ORPHANED CHILD, ONE LESS MAIMED CHILD - IS ALLOWING A GENOCIDAL OPPONENT TO MASSACRE THE ISRAELI PEOPLE!!

THE BOMBING MUST CONTINUE!! THE BLOODSHED CANNOT CEASE!!

FOR A GREAT WRONG WAS DONE AND A GREAT PUNISHMENT MUST BE METED OUT !!

GOD IS GREAT! GOD IS GREAT! GOD IS GREAT!

Pyschometric testing man: 

Well this result seems entirely normal. He appears to show compassion for fellow humans and has moderate views on the use of violence. An excellent fit for our childcare stage 2 position at Cloverleaf Nursery. Can you just run a quick CRB before we start him on nappy changes.  

Unicorn land. Urban warfare against a fanatical enemy, who builds tunnels under civilian facilities and enjoys non-negligible support from the locals - you send small numbers of even special forces in, without extensive preparatory airstrikes and....they just get killed. 

Dude the Israelis have been doing this successfully for decades and Hamas is heavily infiltrated by under cover Israeli agents.

ONE LESS DEAD BABY

YOU MEAN "ISLAMO-TERRORIST OF THE FUTURE" SURELY!!!  SOON TO BE COMING TO A CITY NEAR YOU!!!  

heh @ loons self-identifying as closet anti-semites by offering the OP an answer. When did you guys stop beating your wives?