Tories clearly got a 10 year landslide, and I think the task of reforming Labour is harder than it was in the 90s, if not impossible. So under a FPTP system thats likely to be gerrymandered by the Tories and may well lose Scotland, probably longer. In fact I doubt I will ever see another Labour government. Which is probably a good thing.
So tbh he can arse about dreaming up stupid 6th form policies for a couple of year if he wants.
No guarantee Tories will win next election, however the new boundaries will remove the inbuilt advantage Labour had (and it’s fair to remove that advantage), but I think this Tory alliance is built on very weak foundations because BREXIT and Corbyn won’t be around next time. Labour have to make sure they don’t create Corbyn Mark II and need to be less metropolitan. However Corbyn floating around for months again shows what a twot he is. Brexit isn’t done. We will leave the end of Jan, but the trade agreement will throw up lots of obstacles for BJ either he goes for soft Brexit and he pisses off large parts of his so called alliance. I don’t think he will do that as he has already said no to customs union/single market or he goes hard Brexit and the next few years will be hard economically and reality will finally hit home. We need a strong opposition, Corbyn being around like a bad smell only helps the Tories.
The Tories won all those northern seats because of brexit - won’t be a factor next time - it is by no means certain Tories will win next election- but Labour must move towards the centre and adopt a leader that reflects the mainstream to do so.
Thats a big part of the the problem Laz - I don’t see them being likely to find and accept a competent leader. And even a competent leader would need to move to the centre, which will be very difficult for them to do. And even then he needs to overcome all sorts of headwinds with media and technology and the fact there has just been a huge tectonic political shift. Perfectly conceived and executed by Cummings who is quite clearly the smartest guy in the room. Cummings will probably have moved on to other things, but these are Tory voters now. Confirmation bias is a powerful thing.
It just doesn’t feel anything like the early 90s when Blair and Brown were there, ready to go and the membership were yearning to do anything to get elected. Much of the Left commentariat seem to think the centre is dead and pointless. I suspect the party will try for one more heave. And will fail again.
Also the new metropolitan-regional axis is a major major problem for Labour. Holding the two together has been too big a task. It might get easier post Brexit but tbh the economic forces driving the new axis are still there. It could get worse. What happens if/when Priti tries to bring in the death penalty? Maybe just a stunt for horrific terrorist crimes, that will never get used. But can you imagine the torture Labour will have between its two wings in trying to respond to that? Look at how this ridiculous antisemitism stuff has been used to totally undermine the party. Tbh its just too easy to divide and conquer the Left.
Honestly think the Left needs to totally rethink and reboot. Probably needs two parties - both new - a regional socially conservative but progressive force and a separate metropolitan global progressive force. Which then have a loose alliance at elections (and actually stand down for each other as Brexit party dis for Tories) - but without committing to each other in any other way. This could and probably should have been Labour and Lib Dems - But there is too much baggage and both parties already have voters that straddle this divide. I don’t see it working.
Anyway - I suspect that they now have a long time to work it out...
Corbyn to reflect on what 'p*ss off you beardy Red twot' could possibly mean
JEREMY Corbyn has announced that he and Labour are in a ‘process of reflection’ on what voters mean by telling him to ‘p*ss off’.
The Labour leader has confirmed he will not lead the party into another election but he will continue to guide them while they work out what ‘we’d rather have that lying fat pr*ck than you’ is actually saying.
Corbyn said: “I’ve always said how important it is to listen to ordinary voters. It’s just that ‘Shove your 70s bullsh*t up your a*se sideways’ isn’t easily understood.
“So, for the next few months, we’ll be unpacking statements like ‘we hate you’, ‘this is all your fault’ and the short, pithy ‘get f**ked’ and trying to make sense of them.
“I will also, during this process of reflection, ensure that my hard-left colleagues tighten their stranglehold on the party and decide my replacement because who better? The Blairites? No thank you.
“I still think ‘Go and die, Obi Wan F**knuts’ could well mean ‘your manifesto is hugely popular and you’re the man for us’. If given the correct Marxist reading.”
You’d hope he’d go and talk to those shaken and bewildered old former miners, life-long Lab voters, who were interviewed on bbc yesterday, they were very upset at being forced to vote Con, betrayal. It should be dead easy to get them back. Len McClusky supported him right up until yesterday.
The country needs a moderate and strong social democrat/liberal opposition, if it doesnt the Tories will eventually, long time maybe, run into the ground, then we get the real extremists probably on the right rise. Or maybe like the Chinese communist party you have parties within parties. We would all be Tory then, or not really.
Poor old John Smith. The morning he dead I saw Paul Boatang walking down Chancery Lane in tears. I didn’t know at the time he had dead. Interesting what would have happened without the heart attack. No Blair well not in 1997.
All of the Durham seats won by the tories are coming straight back to Labour next time. Straight back and no arguing. If you look at most of them, the tory vote barely increased. What happened was that Labour voters either stayed home or turned out to vote for the brexit party.
If you really want brexit and you vote for the brexit party rather than the tories in a Labour seat where the brexit party massively splits the brexit vote, then what you are saying louder than anything is: I WILL NEVER VOTE TORY.
It’s always there to a degree Chambers. I basically vote what my parents voted, but live in a completely different part of the country and have a very different job to them, maybe I am unimaginative ?
John Smith was a massive loss to this nation. Had he not died when he did I reckon he could have been the greatest PM in terms of achievements we've ever had to date.
0
0
Tbh - does it matter?
Tories clearly got a 10 year landslide, and I think the task of reforming Labour is harder than it was in the 90s, if not impossible. So under a FPTP system thats likely to be gerrymandered by the Tories and may well lose Scotland, probably longer. In fact I doubt I will ever see another Labour government. Which is probably a good thing.
So tbh he can arse about dreaming up stupid 6th form policies for a couple of year if he wants.
0
0
Labour could easily win back a majority in a single sweep. Under competent leadership. Everything to play for in 2024.
0
0
his brand of labour got the result since 1935 or whatever.
I think it's very good of him to allow time for his acolytes to nail down the power structures to their liking before there's an election.
0
0
No guarantee Tories will win next election, however the new boundaries will remove the inbuilt advantage Labour had (and it’s fair to remove that advantage), but I think this Tory alliance is built on very weak foundations because BREXIT and Corbyn won’t be around next time. Labour have to make sure they don’t create Corbyn Mark II and need to be less metropolitan. However Corbyn floating around for months again shows what a twot he is. Brexit isn’t done. We will leave the end of Jan, but the trade agreement will throw up lots of obstacles for BJ either he goes for soft Brexit and he pisses off large parts of his so called alliance. I don’t think he will do that as he has already said no to customs union/single market or he goes hard Brexit and the next few years will be hard economically and reality will finally hit home. We need a strong opposition, Corbyn being around like a bad smell only helps the Tories.
0
0
Oh and yes if Jon Landsman and his mates stay in control labour won’t be coming back next election.
0
0
The Tories won all those northern seats because of brexit - won’t be a factor next time - it is by no means certain Tories will win next election- but Labour must move towards the centre and adopt a leader that reflects the mainstream to do so.
0
0
Thats a big part of the the problem Laz - I don’t see them being likely to find and accept a competent leader. And even a competent leader would need to move to the centre, which will be very difficult for them to do. And even then he needs to overcome all sorts of headwinds with media and technology and the fact there has just been a huge tectonic political shift. Perfectly conceived and executed by Cummings who is quite clearly the smartest guy in the room. Cummings will probably have moved on to other things, but these are Tory voters now. Confirmation bias is a powerful thing.
It just doesn’t feel anything like the early 90s when Blair and Brown were there, ready to go and the membership were yearning to do anything to get elected. Much of the Left commentariat seem to think the centre is dead and pointless. I suspect the party will try for one more heave. And will fail again.
Also the new metropolitan-regional axis is a major major problem for Labour. Holding the two together has been too big a task. It might get easier post Brexit but tbh the economic forces driving the new axis are still there. It could get worse. What happens if/when Priti tries to bring in the death penalty? Maybe just a stunt for horrific terrorist crimes, that will never get used. But can you imagine the torture Labour will have between its two wings in trying to respond to that? Look at how this ridiculous antisemitism stuff has been used to totally undermine the party. Tbh its just too easy to divide and conquer the Left.
Honestly think the Left needs to totally rethink and reboot. Probably needs two parties - both new - a regional socially conservative but progressive force and a separate metropolitan global progressive force. Which then have a loose alliance at elections (and actually stand down for each other as Brexit party dis for Tories) - but without committing to each other in any other way. This could and probably should have been Labour and Lib Dems - But there is too much baggage and both parties already have voters that straddle this divide. I don’t see it working.
Anyway - I suspect that they now have a long time to work it out...
0
0
To quote Malcolm Tucker, Corbyn is about as much use as a marzipan dildo.
0
0
As usual the Daily Mash nails it:-
Corbyn to reflect on what 'p*ss off you beardy Red twot' could possibly mean
JEREMY Corbyn has announced that he and Labour are in a ‘process of reflection’ on what voters mean by telling him to ‘p*ss off’.
The Labour leader has confirmed he will not lead the party into another election but he will continue to guide them while they work out what ‘we’d rather have that lying fat pr*ck than you’ is actually saying.
Corbyn said: “I’ve always said how important it is to listen to ordinary voters. It’s just that ‘Shove your 70s bullsh*t up your a*se sideways’ isn’t easily understood.
“So, for the next few months, we’ll be unpacking statements like ‘we hate you’, ‘this is all your fault’ and the short, pithy ‘get f**ked’ and trying to make sense of them.
“I will also, during this process of reflection, ensure that my hard-left colleagues tighten their stranglehold on the party and decide my replacement because who better? The Blairites? No thank you.
“I still think ‘Go and die, Obi Wan F**knuts’ could well mean ‘your manifesto is hugely popular and you’re the man for us’. If given the correct Marxist reading.”
https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/corbyn-to-reflect-on-what-pss-off-you-beardy-red-twot-could-possibly-mean-20191213191793
0
0
If they are to be electable, he and the deep red tankies of Momentum need to be purged immediately
0
0
Hopefully he will continue his vision of purging the party of social democrats
If we have to have Tory policies they might as well be run by the Tories
WE DON'T WANT TO LOSE HIM
0
0
You’d hope he’d go and talk to those shaken and bewildered old former miners, life-long Lab voters, who were interviewed on bbc yesterday, they were very upset at being forced to vote Con, betrayal. It should be dead easy to get them back. Len McClusky supported him right up until yesterday.
0
0
The country needs a moderate and strong social democrat/liberal opposition, if it doesnt the Tories will eventually, long time maybe, run into the ground, then we get the real extremists probably on the right rise. Or maybe like the Chinese communist party you have parties within parties. We would all be Tory then, or not really.
0
0
Perhaps history will repeat itself. Leftie 1970s Lab leading to SDP leading to Kinnock moving the Lab party towards the right.
0
0
Took a long time back then minkie. Also labour still don’t seem to accept what happened. I suppose it took the 83 to shake them up.
0
0
Kinnock bollocks lead them right. That was smithy. James Corden should be fast tracked.
0
0
Poor old John Smith. The morning he dead I saw Paul Boatang walking down Chancery Lane in tears. I didn’t know at the time he had dead. Interesting what would have happened without the heart attack. No Blair well not in 1997.
0
0
All of the Durham seats won by the tories are coming straight back to Labour next time. Straight back and no arguing. If you look at most of them, the tory vote barely increased. What happened was that Labour voters either stayed home or turned out to vote for the brexit party.
If you really want brexit and you vote for the brexit party rather than the tories in a Labour seat where the brexit party massively splits the brexit vote, then what you are saying louder than anything is: I WILL NEVER VOTE TORY.
0
0
Kinnock started it iirc.
I cried as well over John Smith.
0
0
I doubt whether all the West Yorkshire seats will go straight back to Labour (Wakefield, bits of Leeds etc).
All the pits have closed down, people up there have got good jobs in tech or distribution centres and the legacy stuff is on the wane.
All this 'Vote Labour Lad' you may have heard from parents or grandparents is becoming less relevant now.
0
0
It’s always there to a degree Chambers. I basically vote what my parents voted, but live in a completely different part of the country and have a very different job to them, maybe I am unimaginative ?
0
0
John Smith was a massive loss to this nation. Had he not died when he did I reckon he could have been the greatest PM in terms of achievements we've ever had to date.
Obviously Putin didn't have him killed.
0
0
Nope Chambo
Absolutely slam dunk back to Labour in 2024. Wakefield staying Tory? LOL
Join the discussion