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Hypothetical J17 question

Entirely hypothetical as still too early for all that but came up in conversation last night.

If getting married one day was important to you but your partner thought it was unnecessary and  balked at any expense connected to it and made contemptuous "jokes" about the excesses of your hypothetical wedding one day... well... you couldn't really marry them could you? Knowing that they would literally be doing it to tick a box and they weren't really bothered? How can you have a day that is meant to be special and meaningful if it means nothing to the other person? It's just a fooking non-starter isn't it?

If a lady I was dating was posting my private shit on a message board and inviting negative opinions about the relationship I would run a mile and be grateful that I'd missed a bullet. 

 

I have questions. 

Re this insertion of baby:

1. Does he already have the baby?

2. If so where is it from?

3. Is he planning a reverse caesarian or reverse natural birth?

these are necessary bits of information before one can opine. 

Don't be daft hotnow. This is anonymous. No one on this board will ever meet Mr Meh. It's all hypothetical really. And no harm in exploring two opposing positions on wedding shiz really. Besides being further ahead than I am and being dissy to weddings I don't think I've been mean about him.

Decent non-brexit thread in my opinion.

this is just another iteration of the birthday expectation mismatch. He wants what he wants with the least effort involved (probably true of  most men, but he's more blunt about it) and you want the full bells and whistles. 

once he's "put a baby in you", he's not going to be the sort who turns up at scans, remembers dates or runs out to the chippy at midnight because you're craving vinegar. Is that ok with you? 

I haven't read the thread.

This sticks out to me:

How can you have a day that is meant to be special and meaningful if it means nothing to the other person?

Don't get me wrong, I had a big wedding and I loved every minute of it, and I usually love other people's weddings as well.

But it's not the day that it meant to be special and meaningful, it's the love you have for each other and the legal commitment you are willing to make to each other as a consequence of that love.

Of course you can love each other deeply without being married, but being married is a contract that you can't get out of cheaply or easily, so by signing that piece of paper you are literally putting your money where your mouth is and committing to the relationship. (Or at least, you are if you understand the legal consequences of marriage, which I would hope all lawyers do.)

You can get married at the registry office for about £200. The party is optional.

So my question to you is, do you want to be married or do you want to have a big fancy wedding? The two are (or at least should be) two completely separate questions.

It's not externalising feelings. 

It's about making a commitment.

It's a bit like this:

Madam, is your Majesty willing to take the Oath?

And the Queen answering,

I am willing.

The Archbishop shall minister these questions; and The Queen, having a book in her hands, shall answer each question severally as follows:

Archbishop. Will you solemnly promise and swear to govern the Peoples of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Union of South Africa, Pakistan, and Ceylon, and of your Possessions and the other Territories to any of them belonging or pertaining, according to their respective laws and customs?

Queen. I solemnly promise so to do.

Archbishop. Will you to your power cause Law and Justice, in Mercy, to be executed in all your judgements?

Queen. I will.

Archbishop. Will you to the utmost of your power maintain the Laws of God and the true profession of the Gospel? Will you to the utmost of your power maintain in the United Kingdom the Protestant Reformed Religion established by law? Will you maintain and preserve inviolably the settlement of the Church of England, and the doctrine, worship, discipline, and government thereof, as by law established in England? And will you preserve unto the Bishops and Clergy of England, and to the Churches there committed to their charge, all such rights and privileges, as by law do or shall appertain to them or any of them?

Queen. All this I promise to do.

Then the Queen arising out of her Chair, supported as before, the Sword of State being carried before her, shall go to the Altar, and make her solemn Oath in the sight of all the people to observe the premisses: laying her right hand upon the Holy Gospel in the great Bible (which was before carried in the procession and is now brought from the Altar by the Arch-bishop, and tendered to her as she kneels upon the steps), and saying these words:

The things which I have here before promised, I will perform and keep. So help me God.

Then the Queen shall kiss the Book and sign the Oath.

The Queen having thus taken her Oath shall return again to her Chair, and the Bible shall be delivered to the Dean of Westminster.

Well, perhaps only a little bit

yeah but the question is really do you want to be married to someone who (as it currently seems to you at least) can't be bothered to go out of his way on just one day of his entire life to make you happy despite professing to love you.

I mean if Mr Penelope had said "it's the mayor's office or the high road" you might have felt differently about him?

ah well this is where u and I part ways, elffi, because I think oaths are fooking stupid too

they appeal to the showman (and we all know how reliable and honest those guys are)

I mean if Mr Penelope had said "it's the mayor's office or the high road" you might have felt differently about him?

We actually did the mayor's office and then the party some months later.

And he was the one who was more fussed about getting married initially.

So I accept it's not the same situation, and we haven't actually been in a position where we've had wildly differing views about something major.

we haven't actually been in a position where we've had wildly differing views about something major

Ah this is awkward - he told me he voted for Brexit. 

Forget I said that.

Lady P, the answer to those questions is that I would want to be married because I believe that standing up in front of your family and friends and making a commitment to each other, ideally forever and ever, means something. I believe that if you're married there is more chance that you'll throw everything at it to try and fix things if times are hard as opposed to when you aren't and theoretically one person can skulk off. And I believe it's a strong foundation for the next step of having a family. Sure, it's not for everyone and it's not compulsory by any means but I personally would want that kind of security for my future. So yeah, putting the money where your mouth is pretty accurate. And the happily ever after is the most important part but the commitment that comes before it paves the way.

Yes, it could be done for £200 at a registry office but fook that really. If we were poor as church mice then yeah, sure, I'd be happy to make it work within our means. And no, I don't need the wedding of the year or an uber extravagant day. But I'd like something fairly traditional with family and friends and not to be made to feel like an unreasonable cow for wanting something that's pretty normal really.

I don't think that's unreasonable at all. Hopefully, by the time it gets that serious he will know how important it is to you and it will all be fine. If not, get rid.

You're not an unreasonable cow (have his comments really suggested that) but his view isn't unreasonable either, so it comes back to the same issue - who compromises and how you reach that compromise 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, I mean, fundamentally it is a question of compatibility.

I'm always a bit wary of people (usually men) who say marriage is "just a piece of paper" though. It's a very fooking important piece of paper that creates serious legal obligations towards each other.

I didn't always feel strongly about marriage but I now do feel that if a man isn't willing to sign that piece of paper, he shouldn't be willing to "put a baby in you".

But if he said he was totally up for the piece of paper followed by the baby but just didn't want a big fairytale wedding, or if he wanted to compromise and just have a simple do in a hotel for 60 of your closest friends and family, is that a compromise you would be willing to make?

I agree with you that if he wants you to turn your life upside down and move to a farm so he can live out some sort of good life fantasy then he should be willing to do some of the things you want as well. (FWIW I don't think you should move to a farm, but that's not what you're asking here.) But it strikes me as odd that you seem more focused on the fancy party (which, however awesome it was, would be all over the next day) and not on the piece of paper or on other fundamental aspects of your life together.

Don't forget as well that weddings don't always go as planned. You might break your leg the week before and be hobbling down the aisle on crutches. You might get norovirus. Someone in your family or his might cause the most god-awful scene. Most people enjoy their weddings but some have an awful time due to someone else deciding to be a dickhead, or some other "force majeure event".

And if you do have an awful time, having spaffed 30 grand on it is going to add insult to injury. But more than that, if you have an awful time (and you've spaffed 30 grand on it) but you stay happily married for the next 50 years, one day you'll be able to look back on it and laugh. But if you have an awful time (and you've spaffed 30 grand on it) and then you're counting down the days until your one year anniversary so you can file for divorce, or three years from now he's "put a baby in you" but it's clear the relationship isn't going to work out, you're going to be really fooking gutted about it.

Honestly, I think you both need to slow down, act like a normal couple and spend more time figuring out whether you actually see yourselves staying together in the long term or not.

No, he hasn't said that. It's just clear he is critical of people who have big weddings. He asked what my wedding must haves 2020 were and then asked what my minimum ostentation threshold was which is a bit on the snide side really. 

The fact that he's been purposefully ignoring me since last night is not helping the situation either. I was a little hurt by the way he made fun of me last night, now I just think he's a dick who can fook off.

He asked what my wedding must haves 2020 were and then asked what my minimum ostentation threshold was which is a bit on the snide side really.

He could just be trying to figure out what you want and whether he could get on board with it.

The trouble is you don't know him well enough to judge whether he is actually being snide or whether it's an attempt at humour that didn't quite hit its mark.

Like I said above, I think you need to wait until you "get" each other a bit more before you make any long-term financial decisions (which both getting married and buying a farm together are).

60 people is not a simple wedding!!!

It's surprisingly small actually. At ours, parents, siblings, aunts, uncles and first cousins came to about 60 people and that's before we'd even invited any friends.

I went to a wedding with 60 guests a couple of years ago and it felt verrrry intimate.

I have been to weddings!

quite a lot of weddings with various dergees of involvement

my personal ideal was 12 people (although mother in law was clearly annoyed she didn't get to metaphorically swing her dick at a cathedral)

I think if you have a very arm's length relationship with your family and can defend a decision not to invite aunts, uncles or cousins then it can be done (especially if you can be similarly ruthless about your friends).

But neither of us have that kind of family (it would have caused massive offence on both sides if we hadn't invited the family and we wanted to anyway since we are close to them) and then of course we wanted to invite our friends. And getting married in our 30s we both had a lot of friends who were married already and whose weddings we had been to, so again, you can't really not invite those people without causing offence.

We don't have any regrets about the way we did it because we did want to have a party, but there's absolutely no way on earth we could have kept the guest list to 60. Even for the mayor's office part there were nearly 20 people.

the year thing I mean

re families, I never have much sympathy for that (you don't even need to tell them you're married and then in a couple of years they might find out but it's historic information and who cares) but if it's also fun what the heck

I don't think I would have enjoyed my wedding nearly as much if it had cost us 30 grand. And, more to the point, that extra 10 grand probably made a difference between us being able to buy our new place and not being able to. (Not that we knew that at the time.)

re families, I never have much sympathy for that (you don't even need to tell them you're married and then in a couple of years they might find out but it's historic information and who cares) but if it's also fun what the heck

Our cousins are all excellent craic, tbf. Except for one of mine who was a no show. He wasn't missed but I wish we hadn't had to pay for his dinner. 

If you're willing to go 50/50 then he should suck it up. 

I mean he should be scattering rose petals and singing Annie's Song softly accompanied by lute as you awake but the dosh is a good practical alternative

Rhamnousia17 Sep 19 14:31

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Wtf no wedding invitation?!?!?

Phoebe C17 Sep 19 14:32

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I am hurt meh!

 

I would have made a beautiful flower girl

It's nothing personal, just that Meh needs to keep the numbers down as birds and bees guy doesn't want a big wedding.

So this man wants you to move to t’country and have babies and (presumably) rear babies and (presumably) give up your livelihood and financial independence. But “doesn’t see the point” of the legal bit that would require him to financially support you (not the kid) in the event that love’s young bucolic dream broke down? Hmmm. 

Definitely take your time on this one  and fgs do not get pregnant before marriage. 

Separately, I am of the view that it’s actually more of a compliment that your beloved will go along to things they actively don’t enjoy, be it large weddings (yours), dinner with dull friends (yours) or other. It’s enough that they’re prepared to let you have your way, don’t ruin it by expecting them to be all enthusiastic about it. 

Have read this one and other threads.

the one thing that sticks out for me, is yeah, you can have all of this marriage/wedding/kids chat, but it kinda seems irrelevant, the main point being that you really don’t know one another that well.

So even if you were both aligned, again, kinda seems pointless in that do you even know each other that well? I don’t mean to sound cynical, it’s just that it hasn’t been very long and I doubt you two have had any kinda of test on how to overcome difficult times.

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