For those of you who have done this and aren't serial shagger types, how did it happen? How long between the spark, and realising what you wanted to do, and realising they wanted to do it too, and then actually doing it?
marriage wasn’t going very well; was getting on well with someone at work; told her I wanted to see her outside of work; met her for a drink, snogged; repeat a few times; arranged an afternoon at a hotel and fvcked like bunnies; etc; it carried on for a few years; separated from my wife; went travelling and met a third woman; still with her.
after a certain amount of time does an affair not just become like another (albeit secret) relationship? I'd find the covering of tracks / remembering what my cover story was too tiring, let alone the ethical issues.
yeah the tracks covering thing takes up an enormous amount of mental bandwidth
I’ve told this story on rof before but eventually during dinner with my semi-estranged wife I called her the name of the woman I’d promised that I wasn’t still seeing which was more than a bit awks
but, you know, that was 30 odd years ago and it’s better to regret something you did do than something you didn’t etc etc
Only in the past with an ex where it was basically already over and we split up within the year. Just when opportunity arose. All just occasional, not a serious prospect for a new relationship. I don't think I could deal with two at once. So I guess that's:
Thanks to those who shared. My brother has said it "just happened" although it was more than a shag and also claims to still love but not be in love with his wife (which I can actually believe).
I would have thought that absent alcohol or other disinhibiting substance something like that can't just happen. The progression Merkz describes makes more sense.
Actually on reflection I'll be slightly more honest and say
4. Bored and horny.
The affairs would not have happened if there was still good sex at home. Anon I think that is basically what people often mean by 'love but not in love with'.
I dont think anyone is really "in love" with their long term partner are they? I have always thought being "in love" really meant the hormonal impact of a new relationship which never really lasts more than 6 months, a year tops. I think most affairs are people trying to recapture that "high".
As soon as lines like this are trotted out in all seriousness the couple ought to get divorced cause it is way too late for both sides of that marriage.
I don't advocate infidelity by any stretch, but who are you to decide something like this?
And this thread was asking for people's experience. Have you had an affair or are you just setting yourself up as Armchair Judge and Executioner?
I've strayed once within a relationship and to this day don't understand why. It had taken several years to finally get together with someone I really like and then one night went out got trashed and woke up with someone else I met that night. Absolutely no recollection of the decision making process at all.
Someone I knew form law school, ended up in the same law firm, friends for years and always knew there was attraction. When sexual interest from my wife fell off a cliff after babies I thought I could get the physical side of things sorted with the other woman and still have the family relationship with the woman I loved. So after a whirlwind two weeks I realised I was wrong, and what I really wanted from life was both with just the one person. We stumbled along for another 8 years working at it but she never really regained her interest in sex, so we eventually seperated. Quite ashamed of having an affair, but it was a personal lesson about what works for me that probably had to be learned at some point.
The 'high' of an early stage relationship is not what I would think of as being 'in love' its infatuation but to some extent that is a semantic argument.
People maintain long term relationships that still have romance and sex in them although maintaining romance is a lot harder than maintaining reasonably frequent and enjoyable sex I reckon. A lot of people also lose one or both and once you lose both it becomes more of a partnership for the raising of the children. At that stage I think it is really daft not to just acknowledge it and find some sort of accommodation that works whether that is divorce, a fully fledged 'open relationship' or just turning a blind eye.
An awful lot of affairs are about a need for affirmation/to 'be seen' that is not being fulfilled at home.
Well yes personally I just can't see myself ever finding one person who would hold my attention on all levels for a lifetime which is why I'll probably never bother getting married.
Dot I confess to never really understanding what "romance" means in the context of a long term partnership, I cannot help it is a rather artificial construct aim trying to recreate the early relationship "high" but all ends up feeling a bit fake and try hard. I dont mean you cannot love deeply or enjoy sex with a long term partner but I just think it is a completely different thing to the hormone enduced romantic infatuation of an early relationship. The latter is what I call "being in love" but agree others may have a different definition.
I also think that people tend to settle down with whoever they are with when they learn that early stage romantic phase is never going to last forever and that is not a reason to be dissatisfied and look for something better.
There are definitely people where there is something much more than the usual early phase of the relationship from the off. It's only happened to me a couple of times but it's way over and above simply being attracted to someone and enjoying their company.
Most people who have affairs have some type of personality disorder
narcissist, BPD, anger issues
Im not including the cheaters who are in genuinely awful situations where they can’t leave their partner before having the new relationship because the partner is genuinely coercive and abusive — a tiny percentage
So any incentive/effort required to see whether the primary relationship might work again is basically gone (I’d say forever even if the affair doesn’t last).
I'm really not convinced by this. I think if you're all sensible about it then it's possible for a relationship to survive one or both of you boffing someone else as long as you're not in love with the someone else. I'd have no issue with a partner who simply said "I'm human and I was tempted and banged someone else senseless for a night".
runnersknee not necessarily. Alot of people I know, mostly men admittedly, who have affairs were unhappy in their relationship but too cowardly to do anything about it until they have somebody else on the go. So the affair was more about cowardice and fear of being alone than the things you mention.
For a friend of mine it was the classic case of his wife was working and looking after a small child so his got his sexual kicks from a girl at the gym. He's now banned from ever going to Crossfit again but he and his wife have got things sorted.
I have never been unfaithful - whether in the earlier stage of life with girlfriends etc or in the 27 years of marriage and 4 years prior to that. I despise it in people. Either you commit to someone or you don't. Turns out there was a shitload of infidelity in my family as I was growing up and it now explains a lot. That selfishness and deceit ripped into the mental fabric of young people without us knowing why. There was so much tension between my parents that it created a very toxic world I still shudder to think about. It was causative or contributed to anorexia in my sister, anger in my other sister (and separation from the family), my brother sinking into a bottled up oblivion and, on my part, a sense that I was being raised by morons who I wanted to respect but couldn't. All I wanted to see around me was peace and love but it was all deceit and recrimination and a mad belief that they could hide their conduct from their children. I hate all that.
I am sure I am making my own mistakes as a consequence of all of that. Perhaps over dependent on stuff and needy of the warmth of gentle peace. An unrealistic approach in the spiky world in which we live, so frequently disappointed by events.
So the affair was more about cowardice and fear of being alone than the things you mention.
Think you're right about it being cowardice, but not about it being fear of being alone for men. Fear of the emotional fallout, of hurting the other person, of the impact on your social circle more likely, so they don't admit it until absolutely forced to (by the new woman/by being caught).
I think it is both Threep, the cowardice I am talking about is not ending a relationship when you know it is not right until you start a relationship with somebody else. Women seem far better able to do this.
life is much simpler when you accept monogamy doesn't really work. then you remove all the cheating and sneaking around and seperate love and lust. there are very few long term exclusive relationships where the sechs is great. a lot of people aren't arsed about gr8 sechs after a certain age though. for me polygamy has worked really well...much better than my cheating days which just hurts people ultimately.
I can understand the judgement, I'm sure it is awful to be the injured party. I would never do this to Mr Fox.
Aforementioned ex however, although superficially charming and probably seemed perfect from the outside, was actually a bully, and occasionally violent. I do not regret at all seeking fun elsewhere. It's not always straight forward to end things. I still know him a bit, he's a better man now and I suspect he could possibly agree if we discussed it now that my behaviour then was understandable. I definitely won't test that theory out, I'm not totally mad.
I've had one or two friends who just can't be single or even spend time on their own which means they've been through a lifetime of not breaking up with someone until they've met someone else which just seems exhausting.
anon123, spot on! Once it is more than a ONS/drunken fumble after an office party, hormones take over and people will rationalise anything. I know somebody who tried for a year to revitalise his marriage (he broke off the affair) but it was too late.
So basically you either don't go to that drink/lunch/dinner with the colleague/gym aquaintance or you have to accept that things will rapidly spiral out of control.
It then becomes an exercise in damage limitation for kids, finances, reputation, mental health...
As Esther Perel says, you have to accept that one person will never be able to deliver on everything you want. If you try to get everything you want from two persons, you end up having less.
I have had lots of friends like that Sails. I find it literally unfathomable. I am the opposite and find being with somebody all the time utterly draining, took me about 2 decades to work out it really was not them it was me.
Women definitely institute divorce a lot more often than men (statistically) which reflects what I have seen anecdotally. In the end it is more often than not the woman who 'pushes the button' to end the relationship. In part that is societal though I think. A man who 'abandons' his family is still very much frowned upon certainly amongst slightly older generations.
I don't agree with Muttley. Life is messy and complicated and so are people. It's so easy to say 'oh just get divorced if it's not working' but that can be incredibly destructive as well.
some blokes are just serial shaggers as well - the fear and cowardice applies to many, but some just dont actually care about their partners and are quite happy running 2, 3, 4 or a bunch of random women at one time because they only think with their little throbber.
I dont understand the bandwidth or energy that would take, but take BoJo as an example - i think tis because they are narcissistic and geniunely dont view the emotional fallout as their problem.
What I don't get are the people who (a) aren't interested in having sex with their wives/husbands but (b) would be very very upset if their wife/huband had sex with someone else. The two don't compute for me.
No affair stories (chance of actually finding someone fanciable at work would be a miracle) but shouting kudos to Guy for the great Peep Show quote! Been rewatching that series this week - so so good!
Als, bigbadbilly that's a bit of a generalisation about men - women do the dirty too and most of the affairs (incl ONSs) I can think of have been the women doing it not the man.
Your husband/wife will never be able to satisfy all your needs.
If you try to fulfil your needs with two men/women in your life, you will be suffering more than just satisficing with one. The emotional stress of hiding things is just too much...
Hence having two is more stressful than just coping with one (imperfect) person in your life.
You're going to need to tell us a bit more about the polygamy.
It is well known that I enjoy a bit of consensual swinging. My wife (at law anyway) and GF know each other also and whilst I wouldn't say they are best mates they have no axe to bear against each other.
As above, no one person can satisfy everyone's needs so you either need to sacrifice some of those needs or be an adult about it and spread the load.
Life is not about getting what you desire at others’ cost.
Sex is a need though? Life is equally not about never having your needs/desires met, because of the actions of others. One of my m4s basically never has sex (once a year maybe), despite him doing the majority of the housework, childcare, keeping in shape, being lovely to her and being the main breadwinner. I would never blame him for having an affair.
It's interesting that the anecdotal men here have an issue with quantity, but as I think the only anecdotal women here admitting to past indiscretions, it was really the quality at issue.
The two are related, I'm not likely to be the only woman who thinks it's hardly worth closing your book for a perfunctory shag.
Your husband/wife will never be able to satisfy all your needs.
If you try to fulfil your needs with two men/women in your life, you will be suffering more than just satisficing with one. The emotional stress of hiding things is just too much...
Hence having two is more stressful than just coping with one (imperfect) person in your life.
That's not what I meant. But it is true that the two persons can have very different sex drives.
I have been approached a couple of times by married women, it is not always easy to resist when you are at a conference and a bit drunk. Even though I am no longer married now, I don't want to get involved with somebody who is (still) married...
I found that solution is not to get too drunk in the first place.
Life is not about getting what you desire at others’ cost.
Sex is a need though? Life is equally not about never having your needs/desires met, because of the actions of others. One of my m4s basically never has sex (once a year maybe), despite him doing the majority of the housework, childcare, keeping in shape, being lovely to her and being the main breadwinner. I would never blame him for having an affair.
sex is a need in your book but it is not, in fact, a need. It is a desire. You don’t actually need it, you just want it. Alcohol, drugs, sex, whatever. People say they ‘need it’ in the same way as some people, when asked to give up alcohol, drugs etc say ‘I can’t’. Yes you can. You just don’t want to. The desire for it is misleading you into thinking it is a need. Oh I can’t get up in the morning. oh I can’t do this difficult work task.
yes you can. Stop telling yourself you can’t. get some personal discipline and raise your game. Stop being a slave to indisciplined desire posing as need. Stop writing off marital indiscretion as understandable inability to withstand the inevitable pull of need or obligation.
I may be odd but I wouldn't lose my trust in someone because they have sex with someone else if they're honest about it. There are other things that I consider to be far more of a breach of trust.
If no care for the vows of fidelity you give someone then what else do you treat lightly? Their health and wellbeing? Their belongings? Your joint offspring? The truth of matters between you? The ability to rely on and be relied upon? That you are trying to achieve a common goal? That you have mutual values?
it is all thrown to the wind without trust and trustability. Nothing counts. You have no way markers or common path.
Sails - seriously grim state of affairs. Oh well you had sex with someone other than me but at least you told the truth.
come on. Is the self esteem so battered that you don’t feel you deserve better than that?
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Immorality. Dull
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The guilt is significantly lessened if the wife is dead and made-up.
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Don’t know how senior lawyers with kids can have the energy for an affair.
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@ I'mNota
JournoRobotkinda feels like this is more of a mumsnet question
ask them what Centre Parcs is code for while you're at it
you'll get a better article than "people how live at their office suddenly end up fcuking each other"
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None of you following the Mel Tucker story in the US? Big news there..Google it.
Monumental stupidity in ever direction.
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fook off Sumo. I've posted here before and am not a journo.
@Anon, I'm not married. I've just found out that my brother has done this and am trying to understand how it happens. He's not a shagger.
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It helps that I am an absolute stunner who is very easy
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Quite easy to have a dalliance outside of the relationship I'd say.
Full blown affair sounds too much like hard work. I'd be more inclined to ask for permission than have an affair
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I am an absolute stunner too, btw, but only when holding my (undischarged) taser in my right hand!
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I wonder how many types of affair there are. My two penn'orth:
1. Will take what one can get
2. May 'fall in love' with attention
3. Pissed up
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3. Isn't an affair, unless you're an alcoholic
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marriage wasn’t going very well; was getting on well with someone at work; told her I wanted to see her outside of work; met her for a drink, snogged; repeat a few times; arranged an afternoon at a hotel and fvcked like bunnies; etc; it carried on for a few years; separated from my wife; went travelling and met a third woman; still with her.
all much easier in the pre mobile phone days tbf
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also, ngl, Phoebe is near the top of my ‘potential fourth wife’ list if it all goes wrong
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Christ
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😭
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after a certain amount of time does an affair not just become like another (albeit secret) relationship? I'd find the covering of tracks / remembering what my cover story was too tiring, let alone the ethical issues.
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yeah the tracks covering thing takes up an enormous amount of mental bandwidth
I’ve told this story on rof before but eventually during dinner with my semi-estranged wife I called her the name of the woman I’d promised that I wasn’t still seeing which was more than a bit awks
but, you know, that was 30 odd years ago and it’s better to regret something you did do than something you didn’t etc etc
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I have not had an affair but have shagged several married women. I don’t think I needed a reason.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n-fE5NbilMw
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Only in the past with an ex where it was basically already over and we split up within the year. Just when opportunity arose. All just occasional, not a serious prospect for a new relationship. I don't think I could deal with two at once. So I guess that's:
4. Boredom.
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If your partner cheats on you, you have to take full responsibility because she only did it because of some heinous fault of yours
that seems to be the current left wing hot take
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Never have
Never would
It's not ok
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Thanks to those who shared. My brother has said it "just happened" although it was more than a shag and also claims to still love but not be in love with his wife (which I can actually believe).
I would have thought that absent alcohol or other disinhibiting substance something like that can't just happen. The progression Merkz describes makes more sense.
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Affairs are Great! They are simple and nobody gets hurt.
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Two birthdays to get chastised for forgetting, no thanks
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Actually on reflection I'll be slightly more honest and say
4. Bored and horny.
The affairs would not have happened if there was still good sex at home. Anon I think that is basically what people often mean by 'love but not in love with'.
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I dont think anyone is really "in love" with their long term partner are they? I have always thought being "in love" really meant the hormonal impact of a new relationship which never really lasts more than 6 months, a year tops. I think most affairs are people trying to recapture that "high".
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I don't advocate infidelity by any stretch, but who are you to decide something like this?
And this thread was asking for people's experience. Have you had an affair or are you just setting yourself up as Armchair Judge and Executioner?
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This is an interesting perspective.
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Affairs?
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I've strayed once within a relationship and to this day don't understand why. It had taken several years to finally get together with someone I really like and then one night went out got trashed and woke up with someone else I met that night. Absolutely no recollection of the decision making process at all.
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Someone I knew form law school, ended up in the same law firm, friends for years and always knew there was attraction. When sexual interest from my wife fell off a cliff after babies I thought I could get the physical side of things sorted with the other woman and still have the family relationship with the woman I loved. So after a whirlwind two weeks I realised I was wrong, and what I really wanted from life was both with just the one person. We stumbled along for another 8 years working at it but she never really regained her interest in sex, so we eventually seperated. Quite ashamed of having an affair, but it was a personal lesson about what works for me that probably had to be learned at some point.
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The 'high' of an early stage relationship is not what I would think of as being 'in love' its infatuation but to some extent that is a semantic argument.
People maintain long term relationships that still have romance and sex in them although maintaining romance is a lot harder than maintaining reasonably frequent and enjoyable sex I reckon. A lot of people also lose one or both and once you lose both it becomes more of a partnership for the raising of the children. At that stage I think it is really daft not to just acknowledge it and find some sort of accommodation that works whether that is divorce, a fully fledged 'open relationship' or just turning a blind eye.
An awful lot of affairs are about a need for affirmation/to 'be seen' that is not being fulfilled at home.
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Well yes personally I just can't see myself ever finding one person who would hold my attention on all levels for a lifetime which is why I'll probably never bother getting married.
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So depressing
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Dot I confess to never really understanding what "romance" means in the context of a long term partnership, I cannot help it is a rather artificial construct aim trying to recreate the early relationship "high" but all ends up feeling a bit fake and try hard. I dont mean you cannot love deeply or enjoy sex with a long term partner but I just think it is a completely different thing to the hormone enduced romantic infatuation of an early relationship. The latter is what I call "being in love" but agree others may have a different definition.
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I also think that people tend to settle down with whoever they are with when they learn that early stage romantic phase is never going to last forever and that is not a reason to be dissatisfied and look for something better.
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There are definitely people where there is something much more than the usual early phase of the relationship from the off. It's only happened to me a couple of times but it's way over and above simply being attracted to someone and enjoying their company.
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CBA TBH
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LOL. Other addresses are available, would not recommend next door.
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Easier to take up a hobby (that does not involve sh@ggery).
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Most people who have affairs have some type of personality disorder
narcissist, BPD, anger issues
Im not including the cheaters who are in genuinely awful situations where they can’t leave their partner before having the new relationship because the partner is genuinely coercive and abusive — a tiny percentage
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So any incentive/effort required to see whether the primary relationship might work again is basically gone (I’d say forever even if the affair doesn’t last).
I'm really not convinced by this. I think if you're all sensible about it then it's possible for a relationship to survive one or both of you boffing someone else as long as you're not in love with the someone else. I'd have no issue with a partner who simply said "I'm human and I was tempted and banged someone else senseless for a night".
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runnersknee not necessarily. Alot of people I know, mostly men admittedly, who have affairs were unhappy in their relationship but too cowardly to do anything about it until they have somebody else on the go. So the affair was more about cowardice and fear of being alone than the things you mention.
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For a friend of mine it was the classic case of his wife was working and looking after a small child so his got his sexual kicks from a girl at the gym. He's now banned from ever going to Crossfit again but he and his wife have got things sorted.
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I have never been unfaithful - whether in the earlier stage of life with girlfriends etc or in the 27 years of marriage and 4 years prior to that. I despise it in people. Either you commit to someone or you don't. Turns out there was a shitload of infidelity in my family as I was growing up and it now explains a lot. That selfishness and deceit ripped into the mental fabric of young people without us knowing why. There was so much tension between my parents that it created a very toxic world I still shudder to think about. It was causative or contributed to anorexia in my sister, anger in my other sister (and separation from the family), my brother sinking into a bottled up oblivion and, on my part, a sense that I was being raised by morons who I wanted to respect but couldn't. All I wanted to see around me was peace and love but it was all deceit and recrimination and a mad belief that they could hide their conduct from their children. I hate all that.
I am sure I am making my own mistakes as a consequence of all of that. Perhaps over dependent on stuff and needy of the warmth of gentle peace. An unrealistic approach in the spiky world in which we live, so frequently disappointed by events.
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Think you're right about it being cowardice, but not about it being fear of being alone for men. Fear of the emotional fallout, of hurting the other person, of the impact on your social circle more likely, so they don't admit it until absolutely forced to (by the new woman/by being caught).
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I think it is both Threep, the cowardice I am talking about is not ending a relationship when you know it is not right until you start a relationship with somebody else. Women seem far better able to do this.
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Completely wrong IMO and IME
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life is much simpler when you accept monogamy doesn't really work. then you remove all the cheating and sneaking around and seperate love and lust. there are very few long term exclusive relationships where the sechs is great. a lot of people aren't arsed about gr8 sechs after a certain age though. for me polygamy has worked really well...much better than my cheating days which just hurts people ultimately.
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Woah, back up there Mr Brainiac.
You're going to need to tell us a bit more about the polygamy.
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I can understand the judgement, I'm sure it is awful to be the injured party. I would never do this to Mr Fox.
Aforementioned ex however, although superficially charming and probably seemed perfect from the outside, was actually a bully, and occasionally violent. I do not regret at all seeking fun elsewhere. It's not always straight forward to end things. I still know him a bit, he's a better man now and I suspect he could possibly agree if we discussed it now that my behaviour then was understandable. I definitely won't test that theory out, I'm not totally mad.
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Cheating is pointless
People who have affairs are generally selfish people who don't care who they hurt
Be an alpha and have the guts to tell your partner you don't want to be with them anymore, don't sleep about
If you don't want to be monogamous then don't get into a relationship
Humans cannot just be picked up and dropped due to betas fragile egos
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Mutters you’re not alone.
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I've had one or two friends who just can't be single or even spend time on their own which means they've been through a lifetime of not breaking up with someone until they've met someone else which just seems exhausting.
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anon123, spot on! Once it is more than a ONS/drunken fumble after an office party, hormones take over and people will rationalise anything. I know somebody who tried for a year to revitalise his marriage (he broke off the affair) but it was too late.
So basically you either don't go to that drink/lunch/dinner with the colleague/gym aquaintance or you have to accept that things will rapidly spiral out of control.
It then becomes an exercise in damage limitation for kids, finances, reputation, mental health...
As Esther Perel says, you have to accept that one person will never be able to deliver on everything you want. If you try to get everything you want from two persons, you end up having less.
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I have had lots of friends like that Sails. I find it literally unfathomable. I am the opposite and find being with somebody all the time utterly draining, took me about 2 decades to work out it really was not them it was me.
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Far too many so called grownups just fall into infidelity as if it’s not their fault. Often as a way out. If you can’t do the time…
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Agree with Muttley
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Women definitely institute divorce a lot more often than men (statistically) which reflects what I have seen anecdotally. In the end it is more often than not the woman who 'pushes the button' to end the relationship. In part that is societal though I think. A man who 'abandons' his family is still very much frowned upon certainly amongst slightly older generations.
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I don't agree with Muttley. Life is messy and complicated and so are people. It's so easy to say 'oh just get divorced if it's not working' but that can be incredibly destructive as well.
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some blokes are just serial shaggers as well - the fear and cowardice applies to many, but some just dont actually care about their partners and are quite happy running 2, 3, 4 or a bunch of random women at one time because they only think with their little throbber.
I dont understand the bandwidth or energy that would take, but take BoJo as an example - i think tis because they are narcissistic and geniunely dont view the emotional fallout as their problem.
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If ever there was an issue completely unsuited to rof’s uninformed anecdotal generalisations, this would be it. Thank god the sun is out
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There is no subject unsuited to rof’s uninformed anecdotal generalisations.
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For middle aged dads isn’t it just simply that the wife goes off the sechs after kids.
So the options are:
One mate put it simply to his wife “if you do not have the sechs with me then at some point I will have to go and have the sechs with someone else”.
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what a truly socially skilled individual he must be
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What I don't get are the people who (a) aren't interested in having sex with their wives/husbands but (b) would be very very upset if their wife/huband had sex with someone else. The two don't compute for me.
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Tbf there are plenty of people who want to have sex with middle age dads
So look after yourself, exercise, dress nicely, don't be a knob, share things equally and then see if your wife wants to have sex with you
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Why would anyone want to have sex with an overweight alcoholic slob with poor personal hygiene?
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Yes, but why doesn't the wife want sechs with the husband?
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Usually because he's let himself go and sits around all the time whilst she does the childcare and house stuff
Yes it's a generalism but a lot of truth in it
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He’s not allowed to do the stuff that keeps him fit anymore.
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So he's a little cuck
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No affair stories (chance of actually finding someone fanciable at work would be a miracle) but shouting kudos to Guy for the great Peep Show quote! Been rewatching that series this week - so so good!
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Als, bigbadbilly that's a bit of a generalisation about men - women do the dirty too and most of the affairs (incl ONSs) I can think of have been the women doing it not the man.
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Unless anyone is offering a mind-blowing, steamy affair on here I'm not reading this.
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Your husband/wife will never be able to satisfy all your needs.
If you try to fulfil your needs with two men/women in your life, you will be suffering more than just satisficing with one. The emotional stress of hiding things is just too much...
Hence having two is more stressful than just coping with one (imperfect) person in your life.
So better start working on yourself....
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LawPerson15 Sep 23 10:53
Woah, back up there Mr Brainiac.
You're going to need to tell us a bit more about the polygamy.
It is well known that I enjoy a bit of consensual swinging. My wife (at law anyway) and GF know each other also and whilst I wouldn't say they are best mates they have no axe to bear against each other.
As above, no one person can satisfy everyone's needs so you either need to sacrifice some of those needs or be an adult about it and spread the load.
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Your husband/wife will never be able to satisfy all your needs.
they aren’t ‘needs’. They are desires.
There is a very significant difference.
Life is not about getting what you desire at others’ cost.
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You just have to tie a knot in it, and go through the rest of life with eyes open to the 99% that comprises the rest of life’s rich pickings.
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Well yes muttley (to the needs thing)
Some people on here are shocking with their attitudes that are just using other humans like disposable razors
Betas
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Sex is a need though? Life is equally not about never having your needs/desires met, because of the actions of others. One of my m4s basically never has sex (once a year maybe), despite him doing the majority of the housework, childcare, keeping in shape, being lovely to her and being the main breadwinner. I would never blame him for having an affair.
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It's interesting that the anecdotal men here have an issue with quantity, but as I think the only anecdotal women here admitting to past indiscretions, it was really the quality at issue.
The two are related, I'm not likely to be the only woman who thinks it's hardly worth closing your book for a perfunctory shag.
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Society is increasingly transactional, this is not a good thing.
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L Bebchuk15 Sep 23 13:57
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Your husband/wife will never be able to satisfy all your needs.
If you try to fulfil your needs with two men/women in your life, you will be suffering more than just satisficing with one. The emotional stress of hiding things is just too much...
Hence having two is more stressful than just coping with one (imperfect) person in your life.
So better start working on yourself....
Yeah just w@nk yourself out of it, as usual
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Muttley15 Sep 23 14:20
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You just have to tie a knot in it, and go through the rest of life with eyes open to the 99% that comprises the rest of life’s rich pickings.
Except you can't tie a knot in your dick
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That's not what I meant. But it is true that the two persons can have very different sex drives.
I have been approached a couple of times by married women, it is not always easy to resist when you are at a conference and a bit drunk. Even though I am no longer married now, I don't want to get involved with somebody who is (still) married...
I found that solution is not to get too drunk in the first place.
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Yeah I was just being facetious x
But noted on not getting drunk or boffing someone's wife.
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As someone famous once said when a man marries his mistress it creates a vacancy.
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Wot anon said.
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I don't really understand why people get so het up about this stuff to be honest.
My wife seems to be one of them so I'm prepared to respect her wishes, but I just don't get why the odd indiscretion matters so much to people.
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Threeepwood15 Sep 23 14:28
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Sex is a need though? Life is equally not about never having your needs/desires met, because of the actions of others. One of my m4s basically never has sex (once a year maybe), despite him doing the majority of the housework, childcare, keeping in shape, being lovely to her and being the main breadwinner. I would never blame him for having an affair.
sex is a need in your book but it is not, in fact, a need. It is a desire. You don’t actually need it, you just want it. Alcohol, drugs, sex, whatever. People say they ‘need it’ in the same way as some people, when asked to give up alcohol, drugs etc say ‘I can’t’. Yes you can. You just don’t want to. The desire for it is misleading you into thinking it is a need. Oh I can’t get up in the morning. oh I can’t do this difficult work task.
yes you can. Stop telling yourself you can’t. get some personal discipline and raise your game. Stop being a slave to indisciplined desire posing as need. Stop writing off marital indiscretion as understandable inability to withstand the inevitable pull of need or obligation.
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It’s been three years since my last confession
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Spurius15 Sep 23 15:56
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I don't really understand why people get so het up about this stuff to be honest.
My wife seems to be one of them so I'm prepared to respect her wishes, but I just don't get why the odd indiscretion matters so much to people.
trust
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Some people don’t understand that
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Stop telling yourself you can’t. get some personal discipline and raise your game.
Or I can just continue fulfilling my desires with other people in a similar position who are happy to do just that.
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I may be odd but I wouldn't lose my trust in someone because they have sex with someone else if they're honest about it. There are other things that I consider to be far more of a breach of trust.
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If no care for the vows of fidelity you give someone then what else do you treat lightly? Their health and wellbeing? Their belongings? Your joint offspring? The truth of matters between you? The ability to rely on and be relied upon? That you are trying to achieve a common goal? That you have mutual values?
it is all thrown to the wind without trust and trustability. Nothing counts. You have no way markers or common path.
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Bravo mutters
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Sails - seriously grim state of affairs. Oh well you had sex with someone other than me but at least you told the truth.
come on. Is the self esteem so battered that you don’t feel you deserve better than that?
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