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Cabinet Office vs Sue Gray

I have a strong suspicion who is going to win this

and it ain't Oliver "Only Boris Can Save Us" Dowden

AmItheSucker03 May 23 11:15

Her refusal to co-operate is damning, not just for her, but also for Captain Integrity KC.

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this is pretty weak even for the meatshields 

her refusal to cooperate with the frothing tory driven cabinet office fishing expedition was always what was going to happem

it seems she is quite happily cooperating with the actual independent regulator ACOBA 

 

if even Simon Case is refusing to permit the Tories to go into print with the assertions they have been leaking left right and centre that's a pretty good indication of their merit

the other baffling thing about this, that shows how out of touch the tories have become, is that I can't for the life of me understand how pushing a civil service HR story that's impossible to report without mentioning "PartyGate" 30,000 times is helpful to their cause.

Simon Case isn't publishing a report because the Labour Party Chief of Staff has refused to cooperate with his investigation.

That's a pretty fair, apolitical and independent approach to take tbf to him. 

Sumo it helps because all of the red wall voters broke the rules too and if they think there is a chance that party gate was orchestrated by colluding snitches rather than being an actual issue, their anger will turn on the snakes in the grass, and they will forgive Boris eating a cake.

AmItheSucker03 May 23 11:32

...it helps because all of the red wall voters broke the rules too and if they think there is a chance that party gate was orchestrated by colluding snitches rather than being an actual issue, their anger will turn on the snakes in the grass, and they will forgive Boris eating a cake.

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that's exactly the problem I said it was

you meatshields think everyone cares about a westminster HR bust up

you think everyone still loves boris

you think 'eating a cake' is what did for boris and not that the Tories got rid of him on their own because he was protecting people who indulged in regular sexual assault 

and you think everybody was ignoring the rules your beloved boris brought in and had the cops massively over enforce

the reality was this, and this is what people get pissed about when they hear partygate, by all means keep pushing it

queenie

Sumo it helps because all of the red wall voters broke the rules too and if they think there is a chance that party gate was orchestrated by colluding snitches rather than being an actual issue, their anger will turn on the snakes in the grass, and they will forgive Boris eating a cake

Jesus christ. 

Amit's comment, unfortunately, is likely to hold true with some sections of the electorate (not just red wall voters).  You can fool some of the people all the time... 

It's not a line that the tories will take, it's the conclusion that some of the electorate will come to. 

 

I don't know why some of you post on these threads or this board at all tbh. 

Pez Vela03 May 23 13:52

Amit's comment, unfortunately, is likely to hold true with some sections of the electorate

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yes, 

I know there is tendency to deal in binaries, win /lose, blue team or red team etc

but of course there are people who will absolutely not vote anything other than Tory and they may well buy into this sort of copeium

but voters who change their minds or who don't have "political party meatshield as part of their dna aren't going to do it

Not just that, I think there's a sense that BJ has been punished for it by being booted out of office (which to some extent is true).  Once again the tozzas' ability to change colour (pun not intended faod) like a chameleon serves them well.  

AmItheSucker03 May 23 14:08

So you think the tories are only doing this for the benefit of people who are already going to vote tory. 

Seems a likely story.

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not what I said

I essentially said they are in an echo chamber and are unable to see how little this matters to the voters they need to win/retain

You're right Sumo, we will see. 

 

The completely independent Cabinet Office clearly think there is something to see here though. 

 

What would be most hilarious was if it turns out Sue Gray and Keir STarmer met up in breach of lockdown laws.

What positives at all have come to labour from this appointment? 

You and Amithecrybaby getting absolutely furious about it has been a highlight, but I concede that the Labour party doesn't know or care what or who you are.

So she was giving evidence to a parliamentary committee about a conservative when her future income stream depends on labour winning the next election (at the very least). Pure dodginess 

risky my little rake-stepping friend, are you able to read?

From October last year to March 2023, the Privileges Committee was working on its investigation into whether Mr Johnson lied to parliament, and asking for evidence from the government.

At the time, it was thought some of that evidence could have come from the work conducted by Ms Gray carried out earlier in the year, and it is unclear what she knew.

But the chair of the committee, Harriet Harman, later confirmed they relied on their own material for their inquiry, rather than Ms Gray's report.

I don't understand why risky will believe any old baloney about the labour party but won't believe facts about the Tory party?

The only logical explanation is risky is a Tory - if not, please clarify the explanation risky 

What positives at all have come to labour from this appointment? 
 

Don’t the benefits of appointing someone to a job usually come once they’ve, you know, started the job?

BantzCity03 May 23 15:21

What positives at all have come to labour from this appointment? 

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to date, maybe none? they might be benefitting from having the tories running around chasing thier tails instead of doing something to win votes but hard to see if that is the case at this point

they're likely to get some benefit once Acoba says she can work for them (the latest seems to be a 1 year cool off from March) 

you don't jump ship from senior senior civil service to working for the leader of the opposition

it makes a mockery of the civil service code and makes your ex-colleagues look like khvnts

and that's BEFORE you factor in the "she was responsible for investigating the prime minister" stuff

yes yes Boris was much worse

this is still shithousery

where are all the non fannies?

 

She’s not universally admired anymore. Any reputation she had for ethics has disappeared.  Just another grifter. Wouldn’t surprise me if she never actually ends up working for starmer. 

Civil servants do frequently end up working for politicians: Jonathan Powell under Tony Blair, Dan Rosenfield under Boris Johnson. Ed Llewellyn (Cameron) was previously a quasi civil servant.

I don't actually see anything that bad about it - and it would be much less fair if civil servants were unduly restricted from taking other jobs after they had resigned from the civil service.

Not just that, I think there's a sense that BJ has been punished for it by being booted out of office

Can we all just please remember that Johnson was booted out by the Tories for protecting and harbouring a sex offender thankyouplease

She’s not universally admired anymore. Any reputation she had for ethics has disappeared. Just another grifter.

It doesn't help that Starmer has kept completely silent on this, leaving her to face the oncoming bus all on her own. His cowardice and instinct for self-preservation has undermined her reputation even more.

Threepwood no one remembers that and  certainly not in this context.

Don't you find it strange that not even the Labour Party mention it? What do you think the reason for that is?

none of those examples jumped ship immediately (and double not immediately following a direct investigation carried out BY the individual in question into the fcking prime minister)

you do know it's a piece of shyt, your tribal need to insist that if it's not tory it's FINE is making you talk crap about it

it is an embarrassment, it was unprofessional, it plays into Trump-style allegations against the state, she has made herself the news and so cannot even do the fcking job any more

Don't you find it strange that not even the Labour Party mention it? What do you think the reason for that is?

probably because - and i agree with you amithemeatshield that in the public’s mind that’s what they connect boris’ leaving to - nobody really cared that much about pincher and everybody cared about partygate (and had an extremely negative view on it from every poll i’ve seen)

why would the labour party care - any mention of partygate in any media, in any way, is a boost for them 

she has made herself the news and so cannot even do the fcking job any more

clergs she’s “made herself the news” to spectator and telegraph columnists 

nobody in the real world gives a toss about where sue grey works or even who sue grey is

i guarantee if you asked someone on the high street how her appointment changed their view of the civil service code they wouldn’t even know where to start (without regurgitating mail headlines about boris and partygate)

ask them in six months and they won’t even know what you’re talking about 

@ Heffalump - to your 0928 -

civil servants are expected to restrict themselves in relation to the jobs they may take when they resign from the civil service, for up to two years after they resign. How limiting those expectations are is a function of seniority of the role they had in the civil service and the type and breadth of the information to which they had access.

Sue Gray was a very senior civil servant. With access to a considerable breadth and depth of official information. I would expect an appointment such as this to go through ACOBA, as it now appears to be doing.

However, the Civil Service Code also requires you amongst other things to:

act in a way which deserves and retains the confidence of ministers, while at the same time ensuring that you will be able to establish the same relationship with those whom you may be required to serve in some future government

Taking both of the above account, it seems obvious to me that she should have notified her employer of the approach from the Labour Party when it was made.

If she did, that will come out in due course. And you can ignore the rest of this post.

The fact Sue Gray is refusing to co-operate with the Cabinet Office enquiry makes me suspicious that she may not have notified her employer of the approach when it was made.

If that suspicion is correct her decision to:

(i) discuss, before leaving the civil service, taking up a role at the heart of a political party; and

(ii) intending on taking up a role with a political party so soon after her resignation

shows, at best, a lack of judgment and is most likely an emanation of the unpleasant form of "these rules aren't meant to apply to me" sadly common in public life [see also - repeatedly, Members of Parliament, of all political persuasions].

So, unless Sue Gray notified her employers of the approach from the Labour Party when it was made, the fact that there are vengeful Tory MPs out to get her because of the report she wrote on Boris Johnson does not excuse an arguable failure to abide by the Civil Service Code.

Rhamnousia04 May 23 10:04

you do know it's a piece of shyt, your tribal need to insist that if it's not tory it's FINE is making you talk crap about it

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it is a bit weird and at least eyebrow raising and people would all be taking the opposite sides if this was reverse (Amit and Bantz would be screaming nothing burger if she'd gone to the Tories after that whitewash report) and the labourities would be fuming. 

it probably doesn't help the civil service that it current has simon case in charge and a complete dearth of leadership after being brutalised by years of complete chaos and constant government briefings that boil down to not being able to achieve the impossible means a shadowy blob is frustrating the will of complete fantasists 

all that aside, it's still baffling that the Tories are screaming about this so publicly and reminding the electorate every 5 seconds about how bad they have been 

nobody in the real world gives a toss about where sue grey works or even who sue grey is

OH HOW WRONG YOU ARE: UP AND DOWN THE LAND PLUCKY BRITS ARE TALKING OF NOTHING ELSE!!

There is no basis of authority for the Cabinet Office's enquiry. It would be like me launching an enquiry into why my local greengrocer's closed. She's not obliged to answer their questions, although she did - until she found out that the information she was giving to ACOBA  (which does have the requisite authority) was being shared with the Cabinet Office anyway.

This is such a non-story it's painful. We've seen this happening in America - remember all the hours of evidence Hillary Clinton was forced to give about the Benghazi incident, just because the Republicans were trying to find something - anything - with which to bludgeon Obama and her? 

Now the Tories have imported this very same 'don't look over there! - look over here!' approach to politics, regardless of the damage done to anyone involved. Sigh.

She's not obliged to answer their questions, although she did - until she found out that the information she was giving to ACOBA  (which does have the requisite authority) was being shared with the Cabinet Office anyway.

AH HA!

SO SHE DOES HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE!!

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