It's well known around these parts that I'm no fan of Israel but the comparison to Nazi Germany bears little scrutiny beyond an evil leader happily orchestrating genocide and using propaganda to convince the majority to go along with it.
Oh, and most Israeli food has its origins long before 1948.
Netanyahu isn't a lone wolf Coffers. It's plain to see that people are trying to engineer this as such but it's Netanyahu leading his war cabinet, leading his ultra right wing Government who were elected following a democratic election process. And recent polling shows that Israelis still overwhelmingly support the actions of the Government in Gaza.
Overwhelming majority of Gazans support Hamas and yet here we are trying to draw distinction between the ordinary people and Hamas.
It is easy to get swayed but there is a realisation that this was Netanyahu's ploy to crete and sustain a narrative for some bigger plans. Not far from Hamas' plans to create bigger narratives.
And yes ordinary people on both sides have suffered and continue to.
I'm not sure that there's any polling that supports your first statement. There was an interesting article in The Nation ("Where is the Leftist Critique of Hamas") which says that there has been polling by The Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research which shows that over 70% of Palestinians believe that the Hamas attack on 7 Oct was correct. But the author (Hillel Schenker) goes immediately on to say "However, that doesn't mean that 70% believe in Hamas's Islamic ideology" and that "support for Hamas as a political party has fallen to 34% (a 12% drop since December 2023)"
But more importantly, the vast majority of people will happily go along with labeling Hamas a terrorist group. How can you try to compare Israel's actions ("the only democracy in the Middle East" as we're often reminded) against a terrorist group? Shouldn't we hold them to a higher bar? One that requires them (as a full member state at the UN) to comply with international humanitarian law?
To be clear, I do agree it is unfair that all Israeli's are said to support the government's actions. I've met some who are the loveliest people ever.
I must say though, I have also personally experienced the worst racism ever from Israelis. Perhaps closely tied with some dodgy comments from Russian girls.
Well decades of Zionist propaganda has certainly done its job when you have a right wing fascist government of an apartheid state with nuclear capabilities slaughtering a population (OF WHICH 50% ARE CHILDREN) and you view that government as the victim and demand those who want justice to “condemn Hamas”.
Your answer then is that it was Coffers who raised Hamas and I replied. But that doesn’t alter the fact that the thread is about Israel and you’re trying (not for the first time) to deflect
Davos you really are disgraceful in your determination to make out anyone expressing a pro-Palestinian view to be a Hamas supporter and/or anti-Semitic, and God forbid they bring up the last 76 years because then come your predictable accusations of whataboutery
No threat intended. I just think your online persona is overly aggressive/insulting and that you’d be far more civil in person. I try very hard (but am not perfect) to speak to people on here as I would if I was in a face to face discussion with them
Israel has spent decades testing the waters to see if their Western allies would ever actually do anything to stop them. They ignore UN resolutions with impunity proving that unless your country is dirt poor with few resources, you can do anything.
They are very assured that America has their back, no matter what, even when the rest of the world asked them not to do this, they went ahead and did it anyway because no one is going to stop them or hold them accountable.
Bibi has very successfully taken everyones mind off his legal troubles.
Supporting Israel has certain advantages for the Yanks too. Hugely powerful domestic Jewish lobby (AIPAC etc) that far outweighs support for Palestine (should that change, no doubt the weathercock of US politics also will, but that'll probably take a long time) and ultimately the US/the West views Israel as closer to it ideologically and geopolitically than regimes such as Iran, or even KSA.
Firstly, AIPAC is not the Jewish lobby. It's the Israeli lobby.
Secondly, you're putting the cash laden cart before the easily bought horse. Israel gets congressional support because of the influence of AIPAC not because the congressmen/women independently decide that Israel needs US support.
The US (as a country, not the corrupt politicians) gets one advantage from its close relationship with Israel......a weapons depot (and testing ground) for its military equipment and supplies should there ever be a conflict in the ME which necessitates a fast and substantial presence of US military personnel. That's it.
To answer the OP’s question - the Israeli realpolitik is that they know they don’t have the resources to fight Hamas, and Hezbollah simultaneously, to say nothing of Iran etc, so they are trying to escalate to a point where the US will be forced to step in actively and do some fighting for them.
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Netanyahu.
Not Israel.
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It's well known around these parts that I'm no fan of Israel but the comparison to Nazi Germany bears little scrutiny beyond an evil leader happily orchestrating genocide and using propaganda to convince the majority to go along with it.
Oh, and most Israeli food has its origins long before 1948.
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Netanyahu isn't a lone wolf Coffers. It's plain to see that people are trying to engineer this as such but it's Netanyahu leading his war cabinet, leading his ultra right wing Government who were elected following a democratic election process. And recent polling shows that Israelis still overwhelmingly support the actions of the Government in Gaza.
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Overwhelming majority of Gazans support Hamas and yet here we are trying to draw distinction between the ordinary people and Hamas.
It is easy to get swayed but there is a realisation that this was Netanyahu's ploy to crete and sustain a narrative for some bigger plans. Not far from Hamas' plans to create bigger narratives.
And yes ordinary people on both sides have suffered and continue to.
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Well the blowhard in these situations usually ends up blown up.
Eh, Bibi?
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I'm not sure that there's any polling that supports your first statement. There was an interesting article in The Nation ("Where is the Leftist Critique of Hamas") which says that there has been polling by The Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research which shows that over 70% of Palestinians believe that the Hamas attack on 7 Oct was correct. But the author (Hillel Schenker) goes immediately on to say "However, that doesn't mean that 70% believe in Hamas's Islamic ideology" and that "support for Hamas as a political party has fallen to 34% (a 12% drop since December 2023)"
But more importantly, the vast majority of people will happily go along with labeling Hamas a terrorist group. How can you try to compare Israel's actions ("the only democracy in the Middle East" as we're often reminded) against a terrorist group? Shouldn't we hold them to a higher bar? One that requires them (as a full member state at the UN) to comply with international humanitarian law?
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Gorlami why is it you can never criticise Hamas (a terrorist group) without whataboutism?
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THREAD TITLE: Why is Israel so determined to start a world war?
So who is engaging in "whataboutism" by bringing Hamas into this?
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Your comment doesn't make sense from this thread
Given coffers and your posts
Lol
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To be clear, I do agree it is unfair that all Israeli's are said to support the government's actions. I've met some who are the loveliest people ever.
I must say though, I have also personally experienced the worst racism ever from Israelis. Perhaps closely tied with some dodgy comments from Russian girls.
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Well decades of Zionist propaganda has certainly done its job when you have a right wing fascist government of an apartheid state with nuclear capabilities slaughtering a population (OF WHICH 50% ARE CHILDREN) and you view that government as the victim and demand those who want justice to “condemn Hamas”.
Feel sorry for you, truly.
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Your answer then is that it was Coffers who raised Hamas and I replied. But that doesn’t alter the fact that the thread is about Israel and you’re trying (not for the first time) to deflect
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Israel could start a ww3 and it would still not be condemned by the morally corrupt allies.
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When Hamas (a terrorist group) are the good guys for some roffers
You have to be a little worried
It's certainly not due to how Hamas (a terrorist group) treated Palestinians!
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Meanwhile senile joe goes to tell stories about cannibalism in papua new guinea
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Davos you are a direct and willing victim of Zionist propaganda. Congrats.
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Well I'm against Hamas (a terrorist group)
If you support them
Well
That's your business
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Davos you really are disgraceful in your determination to make out anyone expressing a pro-Palestinian view to be a Hamas supporter and/or anti-Semitic, and God forbid they bring up the last 76 years because then come your predictable accusations of whataboutery
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Just re-posted from the other thread because it’s applicable to all threads where you make the same argument again and again
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gorlami mate, lets do the essential desert classic gathering. easier to chat.
in fact if Monty's work let's pick of these days.
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Fully agree. There are several roffers who i'd love to sit down with and discuss this
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Heh at Hun bun "dudes" lack of self reflection
Probably time for you to call someone grandad as casual discrimination is apparently cool with you
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Happy to chat Gorlami
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You’d be welcome. It’d be funny to see the change in your approach and how much more civil you’d be in face to face discussion
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Hun bun is an active supporter of hamas? Its unclear
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Haha Gorlami with the threats. You a big man?
I've been perfectly civil but I do apologize if I don't fit in your echo chamber
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No threat intended. I just think your online persona is overly aggressive/insulting and that you’d be far more civil in person. I try very hard (but am not perfect) to speak to people on here as I would if I was in a face to face discussion with them
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Me too tbf tbf
And don't worry, no threat received
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Israel has spent decades testing the waters to see if their Western allies would ever actually do anything to stop them. They ignore UN resolutions with impunity proving that unless your country is dirt poor with few resources, you can do anything.
They are very assured that America has their back, no matter what, even when the rest of the world asked them not to do this, they went ahead and did it anyway because no one is going to stop them or hold them accountable.
Bibi has very successfully taken everyones mind off his legal troubles.
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As long as israel has unlimited American support they will do what they want.
Its pathetic how the yanks are being bibi's bitch.
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Supporting Israel has certain advantages for the Yanks too. Hugely powerful domestic Jewish lobby (AIPAC etc) that far outweighs support for Palestine (should that change, no doubt the weathercock of US politics also will, but that'll probably take a long time) and ultimately the US/the West views Israel as closer to it ideologically and geopolitically than regimes such as Iran, or even KSA.
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Firstly, AIPAC is not the Jewish lobby. It's the Israeli lobby.
Secondly, you're putting the cash laden cart before the easily bought horse. Israel gets congressional support because of the influence of AIPAC not because the congressmen/women independently decide that Israel needs US support.
The US (as a country, not the corrupt politicians) gets one advantage from its close relationship with Israel......a weapons depot (and testing ground) for its military equipment and supplies should there ever be a conflict in the ME which necessitates a fast and substantial presence of US military personnel. That's it.
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To answer the OP’s question - the Israeli realpolitik is that they know they don’t have the resources to fight Hamas, and Hezbollah simultaneously, to say nothing of Iran etc, so they are trying to escalate to a point where the US will be forced to step in actively and do some fighting for them.
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