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Unbelievable spoilt rich brat behaviour....

My PT has a client who is the son of some hedge fund mega-bucks type.  The "kid" (he's 24) has had a pretty torrid time of it, drugs, gambling, generally a waster, and did something serious enough to land him in a coma for 3 months.

He's been out of it for a while, doing better and his dad found my ex boxer PT, and he's been having sessions for several months, during which time he - and the family - have apparently come to see my trainer as a bit of an emotional crutch as well as everything else (although the fact that his father is still allowing him access to stupid amounts of money means that he is likely always going to be fvcked - apparently, this idiot lost 1m gambling in one night, so his dad put him on a "budget" of 10k a week). 

My PT travelled for a white collar fight that one of his clients is taking part in, and the kid tagged along, and it's in one of the countries where people seem to exist only to shop in really expensive stores.

So - this idiot kid buys my trainer a 10k Louis Vuitton jacket, and something else for £6k (and kinda creepily, if you ask me, bought himself the same jacket), and of course, my trainer very nicely refused the gift for obvious reasons - or at least, they certainly became obvious when he asked my advice, and I gave it - I'm not 100% sure if he would have returned them if I hadn't forcefully "nudged" him in that direction.

The brat has now been sulking for the last 2 days, and is refusing to speak to my trainer, and my trainer thinks he will end the sessions once they're back (which would be a real financial blow to my PT, who is just starting to get back on his feet after a couple of years of really bad luck).  I get that the bloke is embarrassed by having his gift refused, however politely, but surely I was right in saying that spending 16k on someone you've known for a few months and who basically works for you is completely inappropriate, and  that, given this particular client's obvious vulnerability, and the appalling optics of something like this, the only correct ethical and professional thing to do was to return the gifts?

What would you lot have done?

Your advice is ethical and professional but I'm not sure it was essential.  PT's don't operate under any ethics guidelines or do they?  The gifts were possibly the equivalent to that lad of a normal person buying someone dinner.

He asked you for your advice and you gave it.  Your PT is an adult and can decide whether to follow your advice or not.  Seems he did so and is now worried about the potential consequences but you didn't force him to decline the gift so it was his own choice ultimately.

It's not really about how much or how little £16k means to rich people, it's how particular rich people use money or gifts to exert control/influence especially over financially struggling people.

There's no such a thing as a free Louis Vuitton jacket and sth else for £6k.  I'd be paranoid they'd start using the gifts to try and control my behaviour or the relationship, slow-boiling-frog me into situations that just would not be altogether for my benefit and before you know it I'm midnight expressing in a Turkish gaol or the Bangkok Hilton cause this kid told me to just hold his backpack while we're at the airport.  

Without coming over all chambo anyone else get the whiff of a long con being played here by someone (probably the PT and probably against OP)?

Failing that, he's a PT FFS not a solicitor, lol @ him having professional ethics to think about. Let him keep the stuff if he wants.

If the kid behaves like this over a gift returned it's a bit of a red flag that he is likely to make inappropriate demands down the line. Involve him in his gambling / drug stuff in some way - this or that has happened, can you help? You won't help after I gave you all those gifts? Then the Dad finds out and he is implicated (son says PT manipulated him) and the Dad instructs lawyers in son's name to sue him for return of the stuff. Which is now worn and he can't afford to replace.

Who wants a rank Louis Vuitton jacket anyway?

Should gently explain to him his financial situation. And ask to put in place an above-board bonus arrangement with the father's knowledge if he wants to thank him.

what are the "obvious" reasons for refusing it?  Is the PT world a regulated industry all of a sudden.

Dreadful advice...he could have worn it a couple of times then kept it ready to ebay when the relationship inevitably soured anyway.  

Crikey, some of you have got wonky moral compasses, that's for sure.

Of course, there's no hippocratic oath for PTs, but they are often (and even more so in this case) in an unusually and artificially intimate relationship with their clients, both physically and emotionally.  And 16k is still 16k (and it's not as if it is "his" money), I think it might have been different if it was.

Also, from a professional point of view, bearing in mind that his father is paying for all this - if you were the parent, and found out that your son - who you and the trainer both know suffers from poor impulse control - had dropped 16k on a gift for someone you trusted but had only known for a matter of months, do you reckon you would allow the association to continue, or think that he was a bit of a sleazebag taking advantage of a vulnerable fool?

Gorlami - of course!  He wouldn't have declined it if, in the end, he didn't think it was the right thing to do.  I was just curious really as to what other people thought - it seemed so obvious to me.  But, apparently not!

it's not as if it is "his" money

Well, it's probably been swizzed from the general public by his father ('coz how else do these people accumulate such obscene wealth?) but yeah to all intents and purposes, it is his money. 

When you work in litigation often involving kids of HNWs, you see lots of examples of the 5% of cases where shyt goes down.

Yeah maybe 95% chance none of that would have happened and maybe it would have been fine.

The risk of it going wrong is not negligible though. And if it does go wrong it's always the little guy who ends up bankrupt because he can't pay the lawyers' fees.

Again wot dux said. And bear in mind please that none of these unearned/stolen wealth types don’t believe they’re entitled to it, and have as an article of faith that obvs poorer people - us - are chippy and bothered by it. Shoot them now. 

Thread Summary

OP jealous of her PT attentions being diverted.  

OP spouts some tantrumy ethical/moral bollocks 

OP outraged when noone agrees with OP and suggests OP has done PT disservice giving up gift worth probably half his annual salary 

To the extent "ethics" mean anything, the PT should not be filling you in on the issues another client is facing. Just take the jacket - the whole point of jobs in that strata is you get fringe benefits for putting up with all the shit (e.g. butlers forced to clean up drugs, vomit etc). 

Wow, Geoff...  I did not see that take coming!!!  That first part tells us a lot about where you are in your life, mate.  I'm sorry things are so bad for you.

cruella de evil23 Nov 23 12:07

Of course, there's no hippocratic oath for PTs, but they are often (and even more so in this case) in an unusually and artificially intimate relationship with their clients, both physically and emotionally

___________________________________________________________________

okay

so now we know how Cru started dating this guy at least

seems to me that the kid doesn't understand the value of anything, including showing appreciation.  He probably has no material needs whatsoever and spending £££ on stuff for someone else might have relieved 5 minutes of boredom. 

I think the PT should nicely refuse the gifts and explain that he doesn't accept stuff like that from clients (so the kid doesn't think it's just him).  

I agree that accepting such high value stuff from such a person has potential for disaster down the line one way or another.   

Ego Brainiac23 Nov 23 12:33

also "it's in one of the countries where people seem to exist only to shop in really expensive store" ??  any ideas?  

____________________________________________________________

France I guess

"so now we know how Cru started dating this guy at least".

Ha!  I'm not that much of a cliche.

Although, tbf, I haven't yet met or heard of a trainer who has not slept with a client, the only question appears to be when they wised up and realised that fvcking your client is generally not good for business.

I feel like we need more facts. Is the pt a man or woman? Does the teenager fancy the pt and what is the age difference?  Does the pt have any interest in the teen beyond teaching him boxing? Upon a read of it being a boxing pt I assume it’s an older male the child looks up to. 

Really It’s no more weird than being given a piece of jewellery  by someone v minted but I feel unless you do fancy them I think there is a moral obligation to say thanks, but no thanks when a serious amount of cash is being spaffed. 

Also if it is an older pt accepting these it’s a bit icky and also controlling and odd of the 24 year old. I assume the pt was quite happy to go along with your advice and not accept the gifts as he also felt uncomfortable? Otherwise why ask for the advice?  It’s also the kind of thing that would have later repercussions when the dad finds out his son has been gifting the trainer stuff and goes mental. 

 

In what context is all this being relayed to you, given PT is currently still in [France]? How do you know what's going on? It is a bit weird that you know this much about the PT's other clients

TBH my mind went where Geoff's did when I read the OP initially just didn't want to post that

This is just none of your business

There is deffo something wrong in your head

no ethical qualms about PT fvcking clients, but getting gifts triggers some moral hysterics prompting you to interfere 

Wierd AF

 

 

most PTs I've seen spend most of their time either listening to the clients problems, or talking about their own.  Very little hard work goes on with most.

There is no teen... Only the 24 year old client, 40 year old PT, and a parent (no idea how old the parent is).

Actually, as many of his male clients (almost all straight, as far as I am aware have developed "crushes" on him as the female clients, I always thought it was sort of endearing!  And I suppose it's not that much of a surprise, I imagine it happens to a lot of PTs, he is a very good looking bloke, and when he's at peak health, obviously physically very impressive, and there is something "extra" about being a boxer that gives them a sort of mystique.

"Really It’s no more weird than being given a piece of jewellery  by someone v minted but I feel unless you do fancy them I think there is a moral obligation to say thanks, but no thanks when a serious amount of cash is being spaffed. " Now, this is interesting to me - I wouldn't accept a gift of that sort of value even in a romantic scenario that is at all casual.

And "It’s also the kind of thing that would have later repercussions when the dad finds out his son has been gifting the trainer stuff and goes mental."  This is mostly where my mind went - I know that if I was the dad, I would be furious.

It is weird to give a fook one way or the other what your personal trainer gets up to.  

Also, that he thinks it's ok to spill personal details of his other clients with you is turbo wrong and u should bin him off.

Kids of very rich people often have a complex and unhealthy emotional relationship with money. It's often the way they felt loved by the parent growing up.

Might explain why brat is miffed - the refusal of the gift might feel to him like saying I don't like you / don't want to be your friend.

Suggesting an above-board bonus arrangement might get the brat back onside if explained in the right way - tells him that his appreciation is appreciated rather than unwanted.

Not immediately clear why the Dad wouldn't be keen on the idea when asked. 

If I'd built up a good relationship with a fishing/birding/hunting guide and wanted to give him/her a really good piece of outdoor kit, I don't see why the fvck I shouldn't.  In my case it might be a £800 pair of binoculars (if I was feeling really generous and said individual was a really good mate) or a rod/reel outfit worth £1000 rather than a £10K Louis Vuitton jacket but the principle is the same.  

And yes - I'd feel offended if it was refused (but would like to think I'd accept the refusal in good grace) especially if it was insinuated that the end result of my generosity might be the Bangkok Hilton etc (might be harder to remain calm if that was the case).  

"This is just none of your business

There is deffo something wrong in your head

no ethical qualms about PT fvcking clients, but getting gifts triggers some moral hysterics prompting you to interfere 

Wierd AF"

Mate...  Erm, you seem exceptionally triggered and discombobuated by my opinion on this, do you think you might want to have a little lie down, try to untwist your panties, and calm yourself before you hurt yourself with your oddly directed righteous indignation?

Of course it's none of my business, and I'm not sure how I interfered, other than to give him my opinion because he asked for it.  And not sure why I should have "ethical qualms" about consensual (if ill advised) sex between two adults, and why that is incompatible with my views about accepting an expensive gift from a vulnerable person with poor judgement who is quite likely in the throes of some advanced hero worship.

Anyway, I only posted it for the chat, something to talk about that isn't the Israel / Palestinian conflict, and if anything is "Weird AF", it's your apparently frothing rage towards me.  Again, I'm sorry for whatever is wrong with you that makes you so prone to irrational fury, but maybe have a go at sorting that out.

Wang - blimey...  He is a friend, I've known him for nearly 10 years now.  And the personal details were offered up by the client, he's not shy about these things (although my trainer is the one who told me about the gifts and the client's reaction to his not accepting them, obviously).  As to giving a fvck, I don't especially, I thought it was an interesting dilemma that might inspire some mindless RoF chat, had no idea that some people would quite so exercised by this.

Sheesh!

what pez vela said.

 

For example, it's not uncommon for ski guides to get gifts/tips from clients that could range from a few thousand euros a week tip, through to serious amounts of gear/trips etc.  these guys keep you alive and show you the best snow on the mountain.  

 

flip it around a bit. lawyers and bankers like to have a "discretionary deal completion bonus" of 50k (or whatever.  sometimes we pay it, sometimes we don't. but it's not materially different in what it's for.

Pez - I don't think there was any insinuation, I think he just said that he didn't want the client (or his father) to feel taken advantage of.  (And, incidentally, I reckon there is a LOT of grey between £0 and £16k in the potential gifting which would have reflected his obviously means, but might not have been so awkward).

Clubbers - I think that is different - if this was "his" money, and if he wasn't clearly still not making good decisions, I think it might have been easier to accept.  (Also, the same stuff that he had bought for himself?  That definitely seemed a bit red flaggy to me, but I didn't say that part out loud...)

3 ducks - I don't particularly care, with it being not my money, or my son.  But otherwise, like any other thread, I guess - a bit interesting, a bit baffling, a bit oddly shouty, and soon to slide its way down the board, off the front page and into the trash bin of RoF detritus?

To be honest I agree he should have just kept the jacket.  This type of super rich brat is always going to get fvcked off about something eventually and move on/ditch him so he may as well max out the cash/rewards. 

As others said this isn't a regulated professional sort of situation. His job is basically to make people with money feel good enough about themselves that they pay large sums of money to him to hold some pads for them and provide a bit of motivation while they get fit. I am not being sneery. I have a PT myself. 

If he has found someone who is effectively prepared to pay a lot more than his normal fees for that service, well then so be it really. 

 

"I feel put out! The last gift I got from a client was a Fortnum Christmas pudding!"

I actually got some really good gifts a couple of years ago, but last year was blooming pathetic - I'm hoping that this year sees some serious upping of their game.

I think this is a storm in a tea-cup . In the world of the super rich huge gifts and tips to staff is pretty normal.  It is nothing them but goes a long way to buy loyalty and discretion, this boy will almost certainly be only doing what he has seen his father and peers do. Personally I would not have advised the PT to give them back.   

"His job is basically to make people with money feel good enough about themselves that they pay large sums of money to him to hold some pads for them and provide a bit of motivation while they get fit"

Well, to be fair to him, it can be (and has been) a lot more than that - at least 2 of his clients have reversed their diabetes due to him, one has avoided back surgery, one older lady credits him with helping her in lots of ways after her husband died.  These are not unusual stories, I don't think, they are testament to the power of exercise, and I think a good, well educated and intuitive PT is every bit as valuable as any therapist or medical professional.

(Oh, and before the Data Protection police start howling about his disclosing intimate details about his clients, these are just some of the testimonials given by his clients, for his website and other marketing material).

We get it, you are a bit in love with him, it’s OK 😉

I really wasn’t being sneery. It’s just the job is what it is and he isn’t a therapist or a doctor with professional obligations. Some rich d1ckhead wants to give him thousands of pounds worth of stuff. He should just take it. 

he should have said "aw mate you know I can't accept something like this!" and then when the kid said yeah you can he should have kept it boxed carefully at home to return at the first sign of anything shifty.

"one older lady credits him with helping her in lots of ways after her husband died" 😉

yeah, my thoughts too.

try explaining that to the relatives who got written out of the will.

Personally I’d have gone to the dad and returned the gifts and drawn his attention to the fact that his son is still making bad decisions.  I’d definitely be worried about the potential for being fvcked over late me if dad found out.

I think if the Dad was interested in his kid’s life at all, the kid wouldn’t have gone down the addiction route.

I would refuse the goods. The kid is mentally unstable and God knows what ideas he may get later under the influence of drugs ie I want the goods back to fund my drug habit or pay his drug supplier for unpaid debt(s).

Thanks for the post CDV - quite an entertaining thread on this Thursday afternoon lol

I am more in agreement with what Sizzler and Spurius said. cruella: are you getting the impression that the PT is blaming you for advising him to turn down the gifts?

"We get it, you are a bit in love with him, it’s OK 😉"

Ha!  Fortunately, he has never rung my bell that way, I have not been thusly affected - not for him, anyway.  I did develop an almighty pash for another coach that worked with him.  He was something else...

"cruella: are you getting the impression that the PT is blaming you for advising him to turn down the gifts?"

No, not even a little bit - I'm not his mum!  He did what he felt was right in the end.

Ego, mate, you wouldn't know "common sense" if it crouched down to your level and smacked you in your gurning face.

"Thanks for the post CDV - quite an entertaining thread on this Thursday afternoon lol" - finally, Fleurissima, someone who read it in the spirit of disposability in which it was intended!

“I’m sorry, I can’t accept it because I would feel morally obligated to declare this gift and then I would be subject to a significant tax bill which I can’t afford. It’s a lovely idea though and if you would like to show your appreciation perhaps you could speak to your dad about a bonus?”

Meh - I get the impression that the dad would do that anyway, and (maybe I'm projecting what I would fee if it was my kid) I think he will appreciate the fact that the trainer didn't take advantage.  Or not.  What the hell do I know!

The tax point is a terrible one! What PT in the world would feel morally "obligated" [gnah] to declare a gift from a client on their tax return FFS? 

And lol also at the idea that knocking back a gift but asking for cash from his dad instead is in any way going to please the son or the dad!

"And lol also at the idea that knocking back a gift but asking for cash from his dad instead is in any way going to please the son or the dad!"

Some very odd takes on this thead. Given the history, the dad is going to hate the idea of someone who appeared for a time to be getting his car crash of a son back on the rails, accepting thousands of pounds of gifts from him. Just another car crash in slow motion.

On the other hand, putting in place an above board incentivisation arrangement to incentivise someone to keep keeping his son on the rails - I doubt he would be able to think of better ways to spend an insignificant drop of his ocean of money.

 

"Cru sliding off her peloton = yuk"

Aw, little man - you still crying into your cereal about the fact that I have pointed out that you post like someone with a reallyitsy bitsy, teeny tiny, button-like, may as well be an innie for all that it's worth, penis? 

Re the tax, leaving aside the enormous unlikeliness that he would declare the gift, I'd imagine that the kid's response would simply be to offer to pay the tax!

Anyway, hopefully, he's had a couple of days to calm down and won't let his (completely unwarranted - after all, he bought him an extravagant gift, it's not as if he offered the man a blowjob or proposed marriage, for heaven's sake) embarrassment screw things up.

By the way, Judy - Fortnums are looking for a GC, I reckon that's right up your street!  I always imagined that Fortnums must be like an in-house version of Farrers, so you'd likely meet someone suitably posh...

Maybe the client just thought the PT looked like a fookīng tramp and wanted to smarten him up so he wasn't so embarrassed to be hanging around with him.

Thats happened to a lawyer I know. He got put on a job his firm (solid silver circle) would never normally have but everyone better was conflicted. 

Having met him and the partner leading the deal, the client made (and paid) for them both to go to a tailor to get dressed properly for the closing so as to avoid his counterparts thinking he was cheap and had hired poor cheap lawyers.

He also made them both get a haircut from his private barber before he flew them to he closing.

Havent read all this thread but to be sure PT’s do v often end up in quite intimate friendships with their clients and many are indiscreet..I am v careful what I tell mine.

Some people are rich because of their parents 

Just look at rof

Vast majority are public school or inherited wealth

Should we look down on them? Well that depends on your own upbringing

As a council estate chav I look down on everyone who has everything on a plate (most Roffers) so I think your pal should take the money and run

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