Old people clutching their pearls Re tax

Who also think NHS waiting times are far too long

Interested to hear what their solution is,  not like they can chuck young people under the bus even more….

the solution seems to be something along the lines of move resources out of hospitals and into GPs, the analogy I heard being "we don't try (hard) to detect stage 1 cancer and then spend a fcuking fortune trying to treat stage 4 cancer"

I also think (have been saying for years) that we need to put pensioners on national services and stop them flopping down on the couch to rot away and be a burden and hide behind their curtains afraid of the ever changing world 

a goodly number would support "make people on benefits work in the NHS for them" as the answer

zero among that number would recognise the state pension as a benefit

The answer is to remove the "paid in" fallacy and show exactly how much they get:

  • £70bn of NHS funding
  • £120bn of state pension funding
  • their share of £2 trillion of unfunded govt pension liabilities
  • use of all the other resources not restricted to a particular demographic (roads, police, army etc)

Just the first two are £17k per head. At that point you can invite them to STFU or FO. 

A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge-hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one's will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic. And yet the rage that one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp.

Starmer should have had a better response on this - the proposed escalation of the tax free allowance of pensioners highlights that it is not proposed for those in work, even the lowest paid.  If the minimum tax allowance mirrored something sensible for working people (FTE minimum wage would seem to be a sensible place)  I would have no problem with pensioners also benefiting but why on earth should they be getting income tax breaks working people do not get?

I saw that the only time the audience applauded Sunak was when he said he ‘wouldn’t put up your taxes’ to meet the Jnr docs’ pay demands 

Just interested in the boomers who expect others to take real terms pay cuts to look at their grotty bunions but won’t pay a penny themselves. Seems a bit entitled but I’m sure it isn’t because I know they hate that…. 

The problem Starmer has is he is going for the "Yes" approach while the Tories follow the "No" approach of tell a short lie. He should say "rich pensioners much contribute as much as today's hard workers for the resources they use." and then say it only affects X% of pensioners who would likely have a private pension fund of £X hundred thousand. 

State pension is contributory in theory - you slog your guts out full time for 35 years and get £11.5k a year and then it is taxed at your highest rate eg 45% so what is left might cover your council tax and heating if you lucky - my date for it has moved over the years since I started working full time in 1983 from 60 to 67 ...... and I will still be working so yes loads of it goes back to the state.  If you never work a day in your life and you get nothing (except it doesn't work like that - Mr never done a day's work gets pension credit and housing benefit/UC and much more in effect than the state pension. The system is a mess.


I would abolish the NHS and reduce income and NI to about 20% combined.

while we are at it lets taper means test the state pension and set it at the same level as minimum wage FTE for those with no other income.

This is exactly the same sentiment which I reckon will mean future DB pension benefits will not be as "gold-plated" as people now think - particularly those on the most generous schemes contributing the the £2trn unfunded debt - which will have to be paid for by young people who will rightly resent the fvck out of it.

"State pension is contributory in theory - you slog your guts out full time for 35 years and get £11.5k a year and then it is taxed at your highest rate eg 45%"

Being a 45% tax rate payer in retirement would suggest you have had ample reward for slogging "your guts out"

And if it's your sole source of income

You added that bit after.

And if it's your sole source of income, how much tax do you pay on it?

Nothing now, but some from 2026/2027

He seems to be terrified of any suggestion that pensioners should pay tax 

Given that the boomer vote is nicely split it seems like a good opportunity to hike iht and freeze the state pension

people who are 50 now dont have DB pensoins unless they work in the state sector.

Incorrect.  My employer (private sector) for a start, but a number of others.  I don't think "state sector" will be immune from reform either - the numbers make it inevitable.

The problem with the aging right whinger types like risky, Lydia etc is they are so inconsistent 

Complaining about the young people not working and expecting stuff for free (obviously bollox)

Whilst expecting stuff for free and living off inheritance/property price increases which are basically free

Young people like me have come from nothing and are happy for others to have a hand up 

Great idea to hike iht and extend it to all  lifetime capital transfers too (including all bomad benefits) in the hands of the lucky recipients rather than the givers. The greatest inequality in the next generations is going to be between those who are lucky enough to have inherited/been gifted a pile (often on the back of home ownership) and those who haven’t been so lucky. 

£11.5k a year is £200k in a pension fund. All the ruddy faced moaners about this did not "pay in" £200k. The rest are either stupid or intentionally blind to the fact all tax, inc NICS, is current pay. 

All the suggestions above are good. Remove the state pension as anything other than a poverty payment over 30 years. Remove all DB pension schemes. Make pension saving and healthcare mandatory fully funded schemes, with the govt offering a guaranteed return fund for the pension side that invests in infrastructure and social housing. 

Take unfunded spending on old people out of the equation and this country's debt problems are fixed. We can then double education funding and have a decent children's social services budget, so in 20 years all children will have an equal opportunity at 21 instead of rich aunts gaming the system to have their clueless child getting a £150k NQ job. 

Destroying the housing market for young people FFS 

That should be taxed, far more than income that young people work for 

For me inheritance should be taxed at say 75% and 100% above 1m (or no tax if given to registered charities, not posh schools) 

Property price increase should be taxed at 95% for high income tax payers or at least 60% 

Then anyone over 50 should pay more income tax by a few percent 

Basically, let's make the economy work for young people 

I’m not talking about the position on inheritance. In what way is someone living in a house they’ve paid for disadvantaging anyone else? Build some more houses. Reduce the value caused by lack of supply.