eg spain 4 merriment - no1 does dancing like spaniards, they really kno how 2 have a good time. italians r surprisingly staid
spiritual elevation is more tricky - on balance, italy has the historic vibe and obviously the art, so probably narrowly edges that
but 4 cheap delicious food imo italy is a com4table winner. tapas can b excellent, but can really b variable in quality and a bit same-y. whereas italian food is invariably sensational and u needn’t go spenny
so if it were food that would b easy but u say that isn’t the game changer. probably based on merriment and spiritual elevation u should go spain. madrid u shouldn’t stay in too long tho - enough 2 spend a whole day in the prado, then i would either do day trips 2 the likes of toledo and salamanca or get properly in2 the spiritual elevation and go in2 andalusia. the train’s r excellent from madrid
I think it comes down to how fussy you are about hotels and how much money you want to spend.
Spain has some excellent value really nice hotels at pretty much all price points. Italy has some great very spenny hotels and loads of sh1t quite expensive ones.
In pretty much all other respects though for me Italy is better.
Italy; it shits on Spain in all areas except violence against bulls and mediocre english breakfasts. But instead of sorrento and Florence go to Bologna and Lecce.
Florence is a horrible holiday destination especially in summer, the huge crowds and heat are not conducive to actually enjoying what it has to offer - it is like a renaissance theme park.
I'd choose Italy but I wouldn't do all three of those in one trip, it's a bit Saga tour, or American.
Florence, Siena, Bologna would be a better trio. Rome is a lovely weekend on its own some time.
There are better choices near Sorrento. Stay along the coast, somewhere like Amalfi, Maiori and combine it with trips to Naples, Pompeii etc, or just take lovely walks through the lemon groves.
Florence is only an issue if you stick to the very centre and go to the Uffizi to see the largest collection of creepy baby jesus paintings in the world. So much more to experience. Verona is charming too.
Naples is awesome but when we went in December when there were very few tourists it was still SO CROWDED. I cannot begin to imagine what it's like in the summer heat with loads of fat braying Americans etc, and unless compelled to go there will never find out.
I am Italy bias. I second Naples with a bit of Pompeii/Amalfi/Ravello/Herculaneum action. I also advocate taking the overnight ferry from Naples to Palermo. It is a hell of a coastline and the cheap way of getting in on the megayacht action with good restos and bars onboard. Leave about 8pm and get in about 7. Dawn breaking at sea is a joyous thing.
If going this coming weekend there is a weirdly cool festival on the slopes of Etna.
Oooh. Take the train to/from Sicily. It goes on the ferry which is awesome and v 1930s. And if you do you MUST take a picnic and wine as no buffet car.
I went to Ravenna striaight after the floods so it was about as quiet as it could be, and I imagine it would be horrendous in anywhere near peak season. The buildings containing the mosaics are very small and there were massive (unused) queueing systems outside them.
I love both Italy and Spain - Italy for the food architecture and countryside - Spain (to a lesser extent) for the food, for the people and general good time vibe but would not go to either in the summer months - too crowded and/or too hot. April - May and October -November are favourite.
everything @Obadiah Hakeswill said. fook the spanish and their setting bulls horns on fire for fun and throwing donkeys off bell towers for kicks. fook their over reliance on paprika.
ITalian art, food, film and wine beats spain into a cocked hat. But I much prefer baroque to ruins so I like OH's Bologna / Lecce suggestion instead of ruins (maybe I don't have enough imagination for ruins? the only ancient stuff that gets me going is the Domus Aurea because it's all there. The forum and broken columns not so much.)
The Ancient history in Italy is so so plentiful that they have mosaic floors in reception areas to walk over a goggle at that would be guarded behind flexi glass and burly security in the UK. Massive plus for Sicily and a shed load of northern cities like Bologna for accessible wonder. Naples and Venice are shoiteholes and Rome (for all its treasures) takes at least a week to get round. Wot Cat said about having to pay through the nose for lux
Spain (where I’m currently working from) is basically affordable middle class heaven if you’re ok avoiding Brits. Very decent 3/4 star (but not lux/5 star) hotels are much much cheaper in northern places like Galicia, Pais Vasco or Asturias and good food is basically a fifth of what you d pay for the equivalent in the UK. I would not wipe my arse on anything on the mainstream Med coast but that’s just me. No one but no one should go to Madrid in August (March or October tho…)
a hidden gem I discovered this year was the natural hot springs around Ourense (super cheap spa resorts and a lovely area I hadn’t explored before)
What practically everyone else said - Italy is better in all (or materially all) respects, but Spain is cheaper
And I say this as someone who has a holiday home in Spain
But Valencia is actually a very good compromise, I think. Beautiful architecture etc. and lots of great food and culture. It's the most Italian place I have been to in Spain, but I am no expert
Bologna is the best place I have ever been. It's amazing.
Went to Parma this Easter. Also very nice. Restaurant choice a bit more limited. Hardly any tourists. The drive there was horrific though. Awful scenes at the Gotthard tunnel. Not doing that again.
Love Florence, once stayed next to Dante Alighieri's house, which was divine (boom boom).
Anyway... there's loads of great places to eat and music to listen to . Hard to not be inspired and taken in by the city. Even more so when the tourists begin to evaporate in the evenings.
Observatory museum is probably the best museum of any subject I've visited.
And for its size/quality not that touristy although unfortunately it's not quite the hidden gem it once was.
Just outside Bologna there's a great little tourist-free town called Carpi (not Capri!) with a Lambrusco producer who has an epic collection of old racing cars/bikes.
Oviedo? Sure if you’re after Romanesque architecture and good food aplenty. Alternatively, try Gijon or Luanco more picturesque seaside walks and good food :)
Voting with my feet. Sardinia this week, Panarea next week.
I liked Valencia much more than I thought I would too. I don’t think I’ve ever had a bad time in Spain. Cordoba and Seville in particular. It’s not like there’s a bad call providing you avoid the obvious places in Spain.
Americans are mad with their multi city destination...I got chatting to a couple in a London boozer last week they were doing Devon, London, Cotswolds, Liverpool, Lakes, Scotland....in 10 days! Madness. BTW - aside, the top of St Pauls at 9 in the morning was amazing.
Florence - went there in Feb - really nice but I'd agree August must be horrendous. I saw Florence Nightingale's stone in St Pauls and learnt she was was born in Florence hence the name.
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Incl Madrid or Rome?
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4 wot purpose?
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Merriment and spiritual elevation
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And to some extent cheap delicious food but this neednt be a tie breaker
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c i think u need 2 narrow it down.
eg spain 4 merriment - no1 does dancing like spaniards, they really kno how 2 have a good time. italians r surprisingly staid
spiritual elevation is more tricky - on balance, italy has the historic vibe and obviously the art, so probably narrowly edges that
but 4 cheap delicious food imo italy is a com4table winner. tapas can b excellent, but can really b variable in quality and a bit same-y. whereas italian food is invariably sensational and u needn’t go spenny
so if it were food that would b easy but u say that isn’t the game changer. probably based on merriment and spiritual elevation u should go spain. madrid u shouldn’t stay in too long tho - enough 2 spend a whole day in the prado, then i would either do day trips 2 the likes of toledo and salamanca or get properly in2 the spiritual elevation and go in2 andalusia. the train’s r excellent from madrid
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train’s? trains
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Plans are either
San Sebastian, Madrid, Seville
Or
Sorrento, Rome, Florence
Decisions r hard
Feel Spain might have fewer tourists tho (those fannies)
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yeah san sebastian, madrid, seville if u want spiritual elevation, merriment and 2 avoid tourists (insofar as is reasonable, it’s still v touristy…)
seville is amazing imo
4 food, wine and feeling like a proper holiday i would do the italy trip tho admittedly i don’t kno sorrento
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For some reason spain is excluded from my european yewrly insurance. I don't onow why.
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Spain. No contest.
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bin sorrento and go to naples instead. sprrento overrun with vulgar tourists.
naples one of the best cities (to visit as a tourist) in the world.
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I am intrigued by Naples but it sounds a bit aggro?
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Wang appaz it's because British tourists get fooked up comparatively often in Spain
Which i suppose in itself is a deciding factor
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no aggro - obvious areas to avoid at night - you might get whistled at but any more unlikely.
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fantastic museums, great food, death cult churches and caves, fascinating place just to wander
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I think it comes down to how fussy you are about hotels and how much money you want to spend.
Spain has some excellent value really nice hotels at pretty much all price points. Italy has some great very spenny hotels and loads of sh1t quite expensive ones.
In pretty much all other respects though for me Italy is better.
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Maybe a quiet Spanish hotel and explore this coast from here.
Gran Hotel Sardinero, Santander
Food will be good in Santander
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You've basically covered by two hols this year. Italy if you want to go Cray Cray on seeing cool old shit. Spain if you wanna chill and eat, drink.
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Italy; it shits on Spain in all areas except violence against bulls and mediocre english breakfasts. But instead of sorrento and Florence go to Bologna and Lecce.
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Northern Spain is not bull fighting territory at all. Very different to the South. Bologna is conférence territory.
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Italy. Better food, better wine, better spiritual elevation.
Spain is nearer tho.
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Florence is a horrible holiday destination especially in summer, the huge crowds and heat are not conducive to actually enjoying what it has to offer - it is like a renaissance theme park.
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I'd choose Italy but I wouldn't do all three of those in one trip, it's a bit Saga tour, or American.
Florence, Siena, Bologna would be a better trio. Rome is a lovely weekend on its own some time.
There are better choices near Sorrento. Stay along the coast, somewhere like Amalfi, Maiori and combine it with trips to Naples, Pompeii etc, or just take lovely walks through the lemon groves.
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The next time I go to Italy it would likely be Bologna--will take a day trip to Ravenna to revisit the Byzantine mosaics.
I have yet to go to Milan.
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Florence is only an issue if you stick to the very centre and go to the Uffizi to see the largest collection of creepy baby jesus paintings in the world. So much more to experience. Verona is charming too.
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Naples is awesome but when we went in December when there were very few tourists it was still SO CROWDED. I cannot begin to imagine what it's like in the summer heat with loads of fat braying Americans etc, and unless compelled to go there will never find out.
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I’m never going to either of those countries ever again because of the way they dealt with covid.
And that’s not just something I announce to demonstrate my principled stand for freedom and have no intention of following up.
Wouldn’t you agree clergs?
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I am Italy bias. I second Naples with a bit of Pompeii/Amalfi/Ravello/Herculaneum action. I also advocate taking the overnight ferry from Naples to Palermo. It is a hell of a coastline and the cheap way of getting in on the megayacht action with good restos and bars onboard. Leave about 8pm and get in about 7. Dawn breaking at sea is a joyous thing.
If going this coming weekend there is a weirdly cool festival on the slopes of Etna.
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Oooh. Take the train to/from Sicily. It goes on the ferry which is awesome and v 1930s. And if you do you MUST take a picnic and wine as no buffet car.
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I went to Ravenna striaight after the floods so it was about as quiet as it could be, and I imagine it would be horrendous in anywhere near peak season. The buildings containing the mosaics are very small and there were massive (unused) queueing systems outside them.
Bologna is amazing even when it's rammed.
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I prefer Italy to Spain (mainly the food) but for some reason I find 35C heat in Italy worse than in Spain. Maybe Italy is more humid?
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I love both Italy and Spain - Italy for the food architecture and countryside - Spain (to a lesser extent) for the food, for the people and general good time vibe but would not go to either in the summer months - too crowded and/or too hot. April - May and October -November are favourite.
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everything @Obadiah Hakeswill said. fook the spanish and their setting bulls horns on fire for fun and throwing donkeys off bell towers for kicks. fook their over reliance on paprika.
ITalian art, food, film and wine beats spain into a cocked hat. But I much prefer baroque to ruins so I like OH's Bologna / Lecce suggestion instead of ruins (maybe I don't have enough imagination for ruins? the only ancient stuff that gets me going is the Domus Aurea because it's all there. The forum and broken columns not so much.)
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Too big a subject for a post but for me
*drum roll *
Spain and Italy both rock but for different stuff
The Ancient history in Italy is so so plentiful that they have mosaic floors in reception areas to walk over a goggle at that would be guarded behind flexi glass and burly security in the UK. Massive plus for Sicily and a shed load of northern cities like Bologna for accessible wonder. Naples and Venice are shoiteholes and Rome (for all its treasures) takes at least a week to get round. Wot Cat said about having to pay through the nose for lux
Spain (where I’m currently working from) is basically affordable middle class heaven if you’re ok avoiding Brits. Very decent 3/4 star (but not lux/5 star) hotels are much much cheaper in northern places like Galicia, Pais Vasco or Asturias and good food is basically a fifth of what you d pay for the equivalent in the UK. I would not wipe my arse on anything on the mainstream Med coast but that’s just me. No one but no one should go to Madrid in August (March or October tho…)
a hidden gem I discovered this year was the natural hot springs around Ourense (super cheap spa resorts and a lovely area I hadn’t explored before)
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What practically everyone else said - Italy is better in all (or materially all) respects, but Spain is cheaper
And I say this as someone who has a holiday home in Spain
But Valencia is actually a very good compromise, I think. Beautiful architecture etc. and lots of great food and culture. It's the most Italian place I have been to in Spain, but I am no expert
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Bologna is the best place I have ever been. It's amazing.
Went to Parma this Easter. Also very nice. Restaurant choice a bit more limited. Hardly any tourists. The drive there was horrific though. Awful scenes at the Gotthard tunnel. Not doing that again.
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Asti serious Q is oviedo worth an early autumn minibreak?
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What's so good about bologna?
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Love Florence, once stayed next to Dante Alighieri's house, which was divine (boom boom).
Anyway... there's loads of great places to eat and music to listen to . Hard to not be inspired and taken in by the city. Even more so when the tourists begin to evaporate in the evenings.
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Bologna:
Probably the best food in Italy
Historic university - buzzy
Great architecture and history
Observatory museum is probably the best museum of any subject I've visited.
And for its size/quality not that touristy although unfortunately it's not quite the hidden gem it once was.
Just outside Bologna there's a great little tourist-free town called Carpi (not Capri!) with a Lambrusco producer who has an epic collection of old racing cars/bikes.
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Oviedo? Sure if you’re after Romanesque architecture and good food aplenty. Alternatively, try Gijon or Luanco more picturesque seaside walks and good food :)
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An absolute must for Oviedo
https://maps.app.goo.gl/E2xT4nqfpKdoX3YQ7?g_st=ic
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Voting with my feet. Sardinia this week, Panarea next week.
I liked Valencia much more than I thought I would too. I don’t think I’ve ever had a bad time in Spain. Cordoba and Seville in particular. It’s not like there’s a bad call providing you avoid the obvious places in Spain.
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Gracias Asti. Thats exactly what i'm after. I see i can get to Gijon on the cercanias from there and that i need to fly vueling. Highs & lows. Cheers!
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Yeah never use the train in northern Spain unless you have a spare day or two ….coaches are the only public transport here
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kaulbach - what are "the obvious places in Spain"? Strikes me that Cordoba is a pretty mainstream tourist destination....
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What Vertigo said, plus:
Garisenda
Asinelli
Ragu
Also that entire street of cocktail bars that gets the perfect evening light.
Best city ever.
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suggesting sweltering crowded Florence in August is beyond me. Ferry with no restaurant like being on a yacht!
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Train (which crosses from the mainland on a ferry) no resto. Ferry Naples/Palermo nice resto and bar. Va bene?
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Americans are mad with their multi city destination...I got chatting to a couple in a London boozer last week they were doing Devon, London, Cotswolds, Liverpool, Lakes, Scotland....in 10 days! Madness. BTW - aside, the top of St Pauls at 9 in the morning was amazing.
Florence - went there in Feb - really nice but I'd agree August must be horrendous. I saw Florence Nightingale's stone in St Pauls and learnt she was was born in Florence hence the name.
Random ramblings. Have a good day.
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