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How much does private schooling really cost?

Obviously I can see what the annual fees are, but once you add on extracurricular trips etc, what is the typical % uplift on top of fees? Am only looking at secondary schooling.

FYI not asking what the wider societal cost is.

Thanks in advance,

TT

Why would you pay loads of money to have your child turned into a tosser with a vastly inflated sense of self worth and a fixation with material wealth, specifically overpriced watches. 

around £9k a term for fees, trips are about £1100 a year.  Branded school kit - assuming no roffer would buy from the second-hand sale!!!!! is about £600 to start and then £200 a year to top-up.  School transport - if it's a private hire bus service that's £600 to £1000 a term. If you're sticking music lessons in that, add another £60/week.

Secondary fees from 5 grand a term for day schools to 12 grand + for boarding 

extras obviously depend on what the extracurricular activity is

a trip to durdle door might set you back £100

assuming no roffer would buy from the second-hand sale!!!!! 

In my day just about everyone bought their uniform from the school's own second hand shop but it wasn't really a uniform as it was just grey trousers, a shirt and a sports jacket or blazer.  Most of my Sunday suits for chapel were hand me down from a friend's older brother.

"Secondary fees from 5 grand a term for day schools" - do you live in Scotland or something?

London is £7-8k/term at the lower end and it goes up from there.  Transport can also be quite pricey, as Jelly says above

I don’t really think that type of schooling represents value. But if I were the kind of person who liked that kind of thing then I guess it would be the kind of thing I’d like.

£80k is too high

boarding school fees are about £50k. Extras vary wildly between schools, but would be nowhere near £30k, probably more like an average of £5k 

London day school fees are £25-30k, again extras will vary significantly but probably a bit less than my figs above for boarding

you have to factor in usually slightly above inflation increases

Nobody's answered his question. He's asked what the % uplift on the advertised fee is (clearly he can see something on a website), not about boarding schools/ "top" public schools. 

Would be interesting to hear some answers in relation to prep schools as well. If a school is advertising at £6k/ term then what is the actual cost going to be "all in"?

Fees will be closer to GBP60k at the top places by this time next year. A few very successful academic places with less reserves/foundation behind them (e.g. Brighton college) are already there.

GBP20k for extras plus a bit of keeping up with the Jones's is fairly conservative I reckon. 

Extracurricular stuff is either pretty trivial in cost (Geography field trip to a youth hostel in Wales or similar) or totally optional (ski trip, cricket tour to Barbados or something equally ridiculous).

I don't think I went on any expensive school trips to be honest.  There's uniform and sports kit and the like but depends on how sporting your kids are and if they need anything over and above the basic compulsory football kit and PE kit.

Better to spend the money on buying a prime property in a top state school's catchment area? That way you have an enduring mega asset for your future, get the taxpayers to fund your kids' education, have plenty of money left to fund their extra curricular trips and activities as well as private tuition in certain subjects. What's more your kids will probably benefit from 'positive' discrimination in favour of state schools when it come to university entrance.

But above all you won't need to take a whole load of 'anti-elitist' flak from RoFs usual suspects! 

theRealist - that's not how secondary education in London works. Where I live, there are no good non-faith state options for secondary school (at least for boys).

For primary, that's a great option. The independent secondary schools take vast proportions of their 11+ intake from state primaries. Wealthy parents in £1-2m houses that educate their kids for free until 11, and then pay. There just aren't anything like the same options in secondary.

Kent has grammar schools. That is very different.

I also have no desire to move to Kent.

As I said, there are no good state secondaries for boys where I live. None.

For our children’s prep school the extra curricular stuff is £15 per club if they do a club after school. They go on school trips to castles and the beach and often it is free or they will add £5-10 or so on to the bill. I wouldn’t say the uplift is huge. Things like swimming is included so you can avoid lessons etc. this is so far with children in year 1 and year 3. 

Also I get most of my kids clothes from the second hand shop or people just hand them down. The biggest uniform spend was initially arriving and not knowing what was really needed etc 

what cakers said

also, as I said above, extras really do vary massively

some schools make a point of making fees inclusive

others will charge for extra for loads of things (eg books and food)

It depends on what your kid does as extras. 

One of mine does a ton of school clubs / sports which are all free. The other one has violin lessons / drama lessons / a sport that's charged for. 

"Compulsory" extras like trips / books aren't significant.

overall I'd say less than 10%

Thanks everyone for the responses.

To summarise, the answer to how much the “extras” cost over and above the headlines fees is that it varies quite a lot between schools, but you are probably looking at low-to-mid single digit thousands for extracurricular activities per year, with big foreign trips blowing that budget.

Context is that I don’t want to go private, but my wife does, and I don’t want to “do a Corbyn” and for it to cause a huge bust up. Part of decision making process/persuasion process involves looking at the actual financial costs involved.

Other context is that my old boss told me yesterday that it cost the best part of £1 million to put both of this kids through private day schools in Surrey. Even for ‘top’ schools fees, that sounded high, and there is no way it justifies that cost in my view, so was wondering how much  the extras are in practice, so I can add those on to the various fees published by each school.

I pay 7k per term, day.  Extras maybe 10%.  Stuff about needing a grand house or 4x4 = bullshit.  Stuff about "may be better to live near a really good state school" = v fair point if it's an option.

"For a top public school (boarding) you need to budget GBP80k per child per year I reckon."

Seriously, Donny - what world do you live in???

Assuming we are talking about the UK:-

"Name" Girls' schools fees per term (boarding - day school looks like it's about 20% cheaper)

Wycombe Abbey - 15k per term

Roedean - 15k

Cheltenham - 17k

Benenden - 15k

 

"Name" boys' schools

Eton - 17k

Harrow - 17k

Rugby - 15k

Unless you are a complete grandstanding fool of a parent (in which case, you deserve whatever penury you end up in), there is no way you can spend another 30k or so on extras.

I believe that Le Rosey in Switzerland is the most expensive school, and they charge around 85k a year, but if you are sending your child to Le Rosey, I'm going to assume that the cost of extras is not an issue for you.

 

Also worth factoring in the cost of an EU or US uni education as an extra as the Russell Group are now following Oxbridge down the route of representative demographics at entrance.

Which means that soon only 12% of their in take will come from private schools.

And they've cottoned on to state-school-washing at A level.

as I’ve said, what surprises me is that there aren’t more entrants into the private education market, introducing price competition 

sailo’s old explanation “nobody can afford to buy all the playing fields” is transparent BS if you look at all the private schools that don’t have massive playing fields 

"Other context is that my old boss told me yesterday that it cost the best part of £1 million to put both of this kids through private day schools in Surrey."

The "name" schools seem to be on another level of cost. Query how much value add they provide compared to a good academic private school without private yachting classes or whatever else they provide.

To summarise, the answer to how much the “extras” cost over and above the headlines fees is that it varies quite a lot between schools, but you are probably looking at low-to-mid single digit thousands for extracurricular activities per year, with big foreign trips blowing that budget.

It doesn't vary that much between schools, in my view. Full boarding is 2-2.5x day school. The "extras" in terms of compulsory stuff are no more than 10%. Ski trips, cricket tours etc are optional. You may feel a bit of a twot being the "poor kid" at Eton, but even they have scholarships and bursaries and many of the English upper classes take great delight in acting povvo in terms of cars, holidays etc, so not a hard and fast rule.

Context is that I don’t want to go private, but my wife does, and I don’t want to “do a Corbyn” and for it to cause a huge bust up. Part of decision making process/persuasion process involves looking at the actual financial costs involved.

There is some sense on this thread in places, interspersed with a lot of the usual grandstanding BS. I am sure you can tell the difference.

Other context is that my old boss told me yesterday that it cost the best part of £1 million to put both of this kids through private day schools in Surrey. Even for ‘top’ schools fees, that sounded high, and there is no way it justifies that cost in my view, so was wondering how much  the extras are in practice, so I can add those on to the various fees published by each school.

If your old boss has been schooling his two kids privately in day schools from 4 to 18, then that's 14 years each. 28 years' education works out at £35k per year, per child. Anything close to £1m is unmitigated bullshit. Considering the fee inflation of the last 20 years (about 7% pa against a background of chronic low inflation), I would be astounded if the true number were even half that, even if they have been on every ski trip, orchestra tour and cricket jolly going.

as I’ve said, what surprises me is that there aren’t more entrants into the private education market, introducing price competition 

sailo’s old explanation “nobody can afford to buy all the playing fields” is transparent BS if you look at all the private schools that don’t have massive playing fields 

This is what happens to schools that try to compete in the "mid market":

Website_Social-Media-Statement-Letter_3.pdf (oldpalace.croydon.sch.uk)

 

But that's just a BS way of inflating the figures to make them seem bigger, Buzz. What relevance does this have? Do people say "my Porsche 911 cost me £200k in pre-tax income", or "my house was £2m, but more like £3.5m in pre-tax income".

@Buzz - that is probably where the £1 million figure comes from.

Even then, looking at fees for the places near me, seriously nice secondary schools are between £20-28k per year, starting at lower end and increasing through school. Fees would be £200k per child, but as someone who went to my local small town comp, I have no feel for how much realistically goes on top on fees.

This is what happens to schools that try to compete in the "mid market":

Website_Social-Media-Statement-Letter_3.pdf (oldpalace.croydon.sch.uk)

My goddaughter has just started at Old Palace. Gutted for her.  Another blow that Croydon surely did not need.  I know the egalitarians among you wonder why I say that about the closure of an independent school but a very very large proportion of those at the three (soon to be two) Whitgift Foundation schools (Whitgift, Trinity and Old Palace) are on full or partial bursaries. Lots of children from relatively deprived backgrounds. Our next door neighbours' son goes to Whitgift.

The problem for Old Palace is that the school is bang in the middle of Croydon town centre. Would you send your 11 year old daughter through that to and from school every day? That's the question I heard parents ask about it. There's it also has the problem that south London is replete with GDST schools offering independent school education to girls (eight of them including Old Palace's direct competitor). It's nothing to do with price competition.

 

My goddaughter has just started at Old Palace. Gutted for her.  Another blow that Croydon surely did not need.  I know the egalitarians among you wonder why I say that about the closure of an independent school but a very very large proportion of those at the three (soon to be two) Whitgift Foundation schools (Whitgift, Trinity and Old Palace) are on full or partial bursaries. Lots of children from relatively deprived backgrounds. Our next door neighbours' son goes to Whitgift.

The problem for Old Palace is that the school is bang in the middle of Croydon town centre. Would you send your 11 year old daughter through that to and from school every day? That's the question I heard parents ask about it. There's it also has the problem that south London is replete with GDST schools offering independent school education to girls (eight of them including Old Palace's direct competitor). It's nothing to do with price competition.

Girls who started at Old Palace this year have been treated v badly. Of that there is no doubt.

I agree with your diagnosis of the problem Old Palace faced. It has suffered for years with its location and lack of grounds. As a result, it has not been a "destination" school (I hate writing that down, but I can't think of a better way to say it). Whitgift and (to a lesser extent) Trinity have been drawing kids from all over S and SW London (Wandsworth, Clapham, Balham, Wimbledon, Putney). Those kids, both in terms of their numbers (Whitgift and Trinity are both much bigger schools than OP) and their parents' pockets (more affluent areas) mean that economically OP is in a very different place.

Old Palace has been catering to a local market of Croydon families as a result. It has no space to offer sports and other facilities to girls. It is in the shittiest part of Croydon (which is a shitty place in general).

It simply hasn't been able to justify the fee increases that have gone on generally in its peers, and has become a mid-market offering. Its formerly stellar academics have suffered as a result.

It has suffered through being under capacity and unable to raise fees as a result of all the above. Very sad that a school with such a long and proud history is going under. I don't know where it went wrong, but there has been a failure of leadership over the last 20 years or so.

About £18k a year in fees (goes up slightly in sixth form).

School uniform another £200-300 per year.

School day trips - minimal.

School clubs - included in fees ideally.

Optional away trips (Iceland, Rome, Somme, Galapagos etc) - variable but potentially £££

All in and finishing after sixth form, somewhere between £150k and £200k per child.

so, every term when I'd go back to school, I would get me another pair or "free" rugby boots from the school sports shop... it was years later when my father told me how the school used to charge him every term for sports equipment and it added an extra grand a year to the fees and he thought they were absolute thieves... I didn't have the nerve to tell him

Yes - victim reported to be an Old Palace pupil.

The M**l is reporting that the victim was heard saying she 'didn't want to go out with him any more'. 

Just awful.

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