Dodgy doctors continue to drive trans approach

Not only


Audrey Hale manifesto a ‘blueprint on total destruction’ say pols, who claim FBI is stalling its release…

Nashville shooter Audrey Hale’s manifesto is a “blueprint on total destruction” which the FBI are stalling releasing, according to local politicians, who describe its contents as “astronomically dangerous”.

Almost a month after Audrey Hale, who identified as transgender, killed six at the city’s Covenant elementary school before being shot by police authorities have yet to release a motive or any of the writings seized from her home, despite growing pressure.

Rep. Tim Burchett, (R-Tenn.) told The Post he knew the FBI was behind the delay, saying the news was “disappointing” and calling for documents to be released to grieving loved ones as well as members of Congress.

Former police officer-turned author and adjunct professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice Joseph Giacalone said the public “has a right to know” what’s in the manifesto “even if it’s heavily redacted,” but believes authorities are worried about the effect releasing it could have.

“I think what the FBI is really concerned here with, and I think law enforcement, is that if there is something in there that is truly damaging for the transgender community, I think they are hesitant to do it because they are afraid of a violent backlash against that protected class of people.”

a lot of ghouls are well intentioned:

”One is a senior clinician at Gids who says they are "devoted" to an affirmative approach to young people presenting with gender difficulties, and that "social justice" underpins all their work.”

””social justice” underpins all their work” : not sure if he really should be in any senior clinical medical position let alone one as open to abuse as mental health.



Thankfully, the Cass Review is going to make very clear that must end. That it was ever needed is a shocking indication of how willingly people with regular ethical training will say and do anything at all to avoid pile-ons from the Chills and Warrens.

I have every faith in the Cass Review delivering multiple changes for the good of children. They are looking into academia, too, and lots of us have submitted reports to them about the complex problems in schools and universities. We must never forget the harms caused by Chill and Warren's manifesto, that will mean children live with lifelong harm.

The report isn't released yet, nor is their review finished The Interim report is having an effect, but getting rid of this harmful manifesto will be achieved careful step by step




"Then you aren't keeping up with the latest news Dettol, and are just reacting to clickbait articles, rather than genuine news"

You turbocharged this thread with a quote from the New York Post, you delusional muppet.

From Wikipedia:

"In a 2004 survey conducted by Pace University, the Post was rated the least-credible major news outlet in New York, and the only news outlet to receive more responses calling it "not credible" than credible (44% not credible to 39% credible).[65]

The Post commonly publishes news reports based entirely on reporting from other sources without independent corroboration."

Total fvcking muppet.

The Cass Review has submitted an interim report to NHS England, which sets out our work to date, what has been learnt so far and the approach going forward. The report does not set out final recommendations at this stage.

Key points – context

  • The rapid increase in the number of children requiring support and the complex case-mix means that the current clinical model, with a single national provider, is not sustainable in the longer term. 
  • We need to know more about the population being referred and outcomes. There has not been routine and consistent data collection, which means it is not possible to accurately track the outcomes and pathways that children and young people take through the service.  
  • There is lack of consensus and open discussion about the nature of gender dysphoria and therefore about the appropriate clinical response. 
  • Because the specialist service has evolved rapidly and organically in response to demand, the clinical approach and overall service design has not been subjected to some of the normal quality controls that are typically applied when new or innovative treatments are introduced.   

Key points – moving forward

  • Children and young people with gender incongruence or dysphoria must receive the same standards of clinical care, assessment and treatment as every other child or young person accessing health services.  
  • The care of this group of children and young people is everyone’s business. Our initial work indicates that clinicians at all levels feel they have the transferable skills and commitment to support these children and young people, but there needs to be agreement and guidance about the appropriate clinical assessment process that should take place at primary, secondary and tertiary level, underpinned by better data and evidence.  
  • Addressing the challenges will require service transformation, with support offered at different levels of the health service.
  • The Review’s research programme will not just build the evidence base in the UK but will also contribute to the global evidence base, meaning that young people, their families, carers and the clinicians supporting them can make more informed decisions about the right path for them.    

A fundamentally different service model is needed which is more in line with other paediatric provision, to provide timely and appropriate care for children and young people needing support around their gender identity. This must include support for any other clinical presentations that they may have.

It is essential that these children and young people can access the same level of psychological and social support as any other child or young person in distress, from their first encounter with the NHS and at every level within the service.

The Review team will work with NHS England, providers and the broader stakeholder community to further define the service model and workforce implications.

At this stage the Review is not able to provide advice on the use of hormone treatments due to gaps in the evidence base. Recommendations will be developed as our research programme progresses.


Update from Dr. Cass as of 28th July 2022

Here's a bit from the text, which I highlighted when I read it:

Obviously looking at pre-existing data (retrospective research) is never as good as planning research going forward (prospective research); in prospective studies it is much easier to agree the research questions, involve service users in designing the studies, obtain consent and collect the necessary data. In my letter to NHS England I have highlighted some of the questions that we need to address prospectively and have emphasised the collaborative work that will need to be undertaken to incorporate these into a comprehensive research programme.

As Edward Deming said, “scientific data are not taken for museum purposes; they are taken as a basis for doing something.” Improving the level and quality of evidence will enable young people seeking NHS support, their families and carers, and clinicians to have better information to help them determine the best support and interventions for them as individuals.

The full update can be found here:


Dr Cass wrote to NHS England in July 2022 setting out the key components of a new regional service model, as described in the Review’s interim report. The letter also provides advice on how gaps in the existing evidence base may be addressed.

Here's a bit from the letter, which I highlighted when I read it:

A further concern is that adolescent sex hormone surges may trigger the opening of a critical period for experience-dependent rewiring of neural circuits underlying executive function (i.e. maturation of the part of the brain concerned with planning, decision making and judgement). If this is the case, brain maturation may be temporarily or permanently disrupted by puberty blockers, which could have significant impact on the ability to make complex risk-laden decisions, as well as possible longer-term neuropsychological consequences. To date, there has been very limited research on the short-, medium-or longer-term impact of puberty-blockers on neurocognitive development.

In light of these critically important unanswered questions, I would suggest that consideration is given to the rapid establishment of the necessary research infrastructure to prospectively enrol young people being considered for hormone treatment into a formal research programme with adequate followup into adulthood, with a more immediate focus on the questions regarding puberty blockers.The appropriate research questions and protocols will need to be developed with input from a panel of academics, clinicians, service users and ethicists.

Without an established research strategy and infrastructure, the outstanding questions will remain unanswered and the evidence gap will continue to be filled with polarised opinion and conjecture, which does little to help the children and young people, and their families and carers, who need support and information on which to make decisions.

The full letter can be found here:


And, of course, important not to overlook the significance of the legal cases which are now piling up against the NHS for subjecting children to irreversible harm:

From The Times

Tavistock gender clinic ‘to be sued by 1,000 families’

The Tavistock gender clinic is facing mass legal action from youngsters who claim they were rushed into taking life-altering puberty blockers.

They are accusing the gender identity development service [GIDS] at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust of multiple failures in its duty of care.

This includes allegations it recklessly prescribed puberty blockers with harmful side effects and adopted an “unquestioning, affirmative approach” to children identifying as transgender.

The law firm Pogust Goodhead has since announced it is pursuing a group litigation order against the trust, which has treated 19,000 children with gender dysphoria (the feeling that one’s emotional and psychological identity differs from one’s birth sex) since 1989.

Tom Goodhead, chief executive of Pogust Goodhead, told The Times: “Children and young adolescents were rushed into treatment without the appropriate therapy and involvement of the right clinicians, meaning that they were misdiagnosed and started on a treatment pathway that was not right for them.

“These children have suffered life-changing and, in some cases, irreversible effects of the treatment they received . . . We anticipate that at least 1,000 clients will join this action.”

Content, coverage, and controversies[edit]

The Post has been criticized since the beginning of Murdoch's ownership for sensationalism, blatant advocacy, and conservative bias. In 1980, the Columbia Journalism Review stated that the "New York Post is no longer merely a journalistic problem. It is a social problem—a force for evil."[60]

The Post has been accused of contorting its news coverage to suit Murdoch's business needs, in particular avoiding subjects which could be unflattering to the government of the People's Republic of China, where Murdoch has invested heavily in satellite television.[61]

In a 2019 article in The New YorkerKen Auletta wrote that Murdoch "doesn't hesitate to use the Post to belittle his business opponents", and went on to say that Murdoch's support for Edward I. Koch while he was running for mayor of New York "spilled over onto the news pages of the Post, with the paper regularly publishing glowing stories about Koch and sometimes savage accounts of his four primary opponents."[62]

According to The New York TimesRonald Reagan's campaign team credited Murdoch and the Post for his victory in New York in the 1980 United States presidential election.[63] Reagan later "waived a prohibition against owning a television station and a newspaper in the same market", allowing Murdoch to continue to control the New York Post and The Boston Herald while expanding into television.

In 1997, Post executive editor Steven D. Cuozzo responded to criticism by saying that the Post "broke the elitist media stranglehold on the national agenda."[64]

In a 2004 survey conducted by Pace University, the Post was rated the least-credible major news outlet in New York, and the only news outlet to receive more responses calling it "not credible" than credible (44% not credible to 39% credible).[65]

The Post commonly publishes news reports based entirely on reporting from other sources without independent corroboration. In January 2021, the paper forbade the use of CNNMSNBCThe Washington Post, and The New York Times as sole sources for such stories.[66]


"Headless body in topless bar" redirects here. For the film inspired by the story, see Headless Body in Topless Bar.


One of the paper's most famous headlines, from the edition of April 15, 1983

Murdoch imported the tabloid journalism style of many of his Australian and British newspapers, such as The Sun, which remains one of the highest selling daily newspapers in the United Kingdom. This style was typified[67] by the Post's famous headlines such as "Headless body in topless bar" (written by Vincent Musetto). In its 35th-anniversary edition, New York magazine listed this as one of the greatest headlines. It also has five other Post headlines in its "Greatest Tabloid Headlines" list.[68]

The Post has also been criticized for incendiary front-page headlines, such as one referring to the co-chairmen of the Iraq Study GroupJames Baker and Lee Hamilton—as "surrender monkeys",[69] and another on the murder of Hasidic landlord Menachem Stark reading "Slumlord found burned in dumpster. Who didn't want him dead?"[70]

Page Six[edit]

"Page Six" and "Page Six TV" redirect here. For the Atari computer magazine, see Page 6.

The gossip section Page Six was created by James Brady[71] and is currently edited by Emily Smith.[72] Columnist Richard Johnson edited Page Six for 25 years.[73] February 2006 saw the debut of Page Six Magazine, distributed free inside the paper. In September 2007, it started to be distributed weekly in the Sunday edition of the paper. In January 2009, publication of Page Six Magazine was cut to four times a year.[74]

Beginning with the 2017–18 television season, a daily syndicated series known as Page Six TV came to air, produced by 20th Television, which was part of the 21st Century Fox side of Rupert Murdoch's holdings, and Endemol Shine North America. The show was originally hosted by comedian John Fugelsang, with contributions from Page Six and Post writers (including Carlos Greer), along with regular panelists Elizabeth Wagmeister from Variety and Bevy Smith. In March 2018, Fugelsang left the show, with the expectation that a new host would be named, though by the end of the season, it was announced that Wagmeister, Greer and Smith would be retained as equal co-hosts.[75]

In April 2019, it was confirmed that the series would end after May 2019; by then, it was last in average viewership out of all U.S. syndicated newsmagazine programs, behind the similar tabloid-inspired program Daily Mail TV.[76]

Erroneous reporting and defamation cases arising from bombings[edit]

Richard Jewell, a security guard wrongly suspected of being the Centennial Olympic Park bomber, sued the Post in 1998, alleging that the newspaper had libeled him in several articles, headlines, photographs, and editorial cartoons. U.S. District Judge Loretta Preska largely denied the Post's motion to dismiss, allowing the suit to proceed.[77] The Post subsequently settled the case for an undisclosed sum.[78]

In several stories on the day of the 2013 Boston Marathon bombing, the Post inaccurately reported that twelve people had died, and that a Saudi national had been taken into custody as a suspect, which was denied by Boston Police.[79][80] Three days later, on April 18, the Post featured a full-page cover photo of two young men at the Boston marathon with the headline "Bag Men" (a term that implies criminality) and erroneously claimed they were being sought by police.[80][81][82] The men, Salaheddin Barhoum and Yassine Zaimi, were not considered suspects, and the Post was heavily criticized for the apparent accusation.[81][83] Then-editor Col Allan defended the story, saying they had not referred to the men as "suspects".[81][84] The two men later sued the Post for libel,[85][86][87] and the suit was settled in 2014 on undisclosed terms.[88][89][90]

Accusations of racism[edit]

In 1989, the Post described the five black and Latino teenagers arrested following the rape and assault of a white woman in Central Park as coming "from a world of crack, welfare, guns, knives, indifference, and ignorance [...] a land of no fathers", and having set out "to smash, hurt, rob, stomp, rape" people who were "rich" and "white".[91][92][93] The teenagers' convictions were later overturned after the confession of a serial rapist, which was confirmed with DNA evidence.

In 2006, several Asian-American advocacy groups protested the use of the headline "Wok This Way" for a Post article about U.S. president George W. Bush's meeting with Hu Jintao, President of the People's Republic of China.[94]

In 2009, the Post ran a cartoon by Sean Delonas of a white police officer saying to another white police officer who has just shot a chimpanzee on the street: "They'll have to find someone else to write the next stimulus bill." The cartoon dually referred to U.S. president Obama and to the recent rampage of Travis, a former chimpanzee actor. It was criticized as racist,[95] with civil rights activist Al Sharpton calling the cartoon "troubling at best given the historic racist attacks of African-Americans as being synonymous with monkeys."[96] The Post defended itself by stating that the cartoon was deliberately misinterpreted by its critics.[97]

The Public Enemy song "A Letter to the New York Post" from their album Apocalypse '91...The Enemy Strikes Black is a complaint about what they believed to be negative and inaccurate coverage blacks received from the paper.[98]

In 2019, the Post displayed an image of the World Trade Center in flames targeting Rep. Ilhan Omar, one of the first two Muslim women to serve in Congress. The image had been displayed due to Ms. Omar's widely criticized quote "Some people did something" which was viewed by many as insensitive and minimizing the 9/11 World Trade Center attacks.[99] The Yemeni American Merchant Association announced a formal boycott of the paper and ten of the most prominent Yemeni bodega owners in New York agreed to stop selling the paper. As of June 2019, the boycott had extended to over 900 individual stores.[100] Yemeni-Americans own about half of the 10,000 bodegas in New York City.[101]

In 2020, the Post published an article with the headline "Suspected teen gunman Kyle Rittenhouse spotted cleaning Kenosha graffiti before shooting". In response, actress Viola Davis posted a photo on Instagram comparing the headline with the Post's 2012 headline about Trayvon Martin, which read: "Trayvon Martin had traces of marijuana in system at time of death, autopsy reveals." The caption stated: "We need to boycott publications that continue to criminalize innocent [people of color] after they have been murdered by the law!!!"[102]

Hunter Biden laptop story[edit]

Further information: Hunter Biden laptop controversy

On October 14, 2020, three weeks before the 2020 United States presidential election, the Post published a front-page story purporting to reveal "smoking gun" emails recovered from a laptop abandoned by Hunter Biden at a computer repair store in Wilmington, Delaware.[103] The only sources named in the story were Trump personal attorney Rudy Giuliani and strategy advisor Steve Bannon.[103] The story came under heavy criticism from other news sources and anonymous reporters at the Post itself for "flimsy" reporting, including questions about the reliability of its sourcing and the lack of outreach to either Hunter Biden or the Joe Biden campaign for pre-publication comment.[104][105] More than fifty former U.S. intelligence officials signed an open letter stating that they were "deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role" in the story, but emphasized that "we do not know if the emails ... are genuine or not and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement."[106][107] The Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe said during a Fox News interview that "the intelligence community doesn't believe that [the emails originated from Russian disinformation] because there is no intelligence that supports that." Ratcliffe, a Trump loyalist, had previously made public assertions that contradicted professional intelligence assessments.[108][109]

The FBI took possession of the laptop in late 2019 and reported that they had "nothing to add" to Ratcliffe's remarks concerning Russian disinformation.[110] The New York Times reported days after the Post story that "no concrete evidence has emerged that the laptop contains Russian disinformation." Amid mounting pressure, the FBI wrote to Senator Ron Johnson and suggested it had not found any Russian disinformation on the laptop. It was unclear what the Justice Department officials knew about the FBI investigation at the time.[110] Fox News reported that the laptop was seized as part of an investigation into money laundering, but did not make clear if the investigation involved Hunter Biden.[111] The New York Times reported in December 2020 that investigators had initially examined possible money laundering by Hunter Biden but did not find evidence to justify further investigation.[112]

As of 2022, Vox reported that no evidence had emerged "that the laptop's leak was a Russian plot."[113] In March 2022, The New York Times and The Washington Post confirmed that some of the emails were authentic.[114][113][115] In April 2022, the editorial board of The Washington Post wrote the Biden laptop story provided "an opportunity for a reckoning" by American media to ensure "accurate and relevant" stories are covered. They noted that:

"The investigation adds new details and confirms old ones about the ways in which Joe Biden's family has profited from trading overseas on his name — something for which the president deserves criticism for tacitly condoning. What it does not do, despite some conservatives' insistence otherwise, is prove that President Biden acted corruptly."[116]

Joan Donovan, the research director of the Shorenstein Center on Media, Politics, and Public Policy at Harvard University, said that "This is arguably the most well-known story the New York Post has ever published and it endures as a story because it was initially suppressed by social media companies and jeered by politicians and pundits alike".[117]

After the 2016 election, social media companies were criticized for allowing false political information to proliferate on their platforms, including from Russian intelligence, suggesting it may have assisted Trump's election.[118] Twitter and Facebook initially limited the spread of the Post story on their platforms, citing supposed policies restricting the sharing of hacked material and personal information; Twitter also temporarily suspended the Post's account. This decision proved controversial, with many critics, including Republican senator Ted Cruz, deriding it as censorship.[119][120] NPR reported that Twitter initially declined to comment how it reached this decision or what evidence it had supporting this.[120] The New York Times initially reported that the story had been pitched to other outlets, including Fox News, which declined to publish it due to concerns over its reliability.[121]

The Times also reported that two writers at the Post declined to have their names attached to the story, and ultimately the story only listed two bylines: Gabrielle Fonrouge, who "had little to do with the reporting or writing of the article" and was unaware of her byline prior to the story's publication, and Emma-Jo Morris, a former producer for Fox News's Hannity who had no prior bylines with the Post. In response to the concerns about the veracity of the article, former Post editor-in-chief and current advisor Colin Allan responded in an email to the Times that "the senior editors at The Post made the decision to publish the Biden files after several days' hard work established its merit." Giuliani said he gave the story to the Post because "either nobody else would take it, or if they took it, they would spend all the time they could to try to contradict it before they put it out."[121] The accuracy of the Hunter Biden laptop story resulted in increased scrutiny of Twitter and Facebook limiting the spread of the story by conservatives, who argued that their actions "proves Big Tech's bias".[117][122]

NBC News reported on November 1 that "no evidence has emerged that the documents are the product of Russian disinformation, as some experts initially suggested, but many questions remain about how the materials got into the hands of Trump's lawyer Rudy Giuliani, who has met with Russian agents in his effort to dig up dirt on Biden."[123] CNN reported that Giuliani and other Trump allies met with Ukrainian lawmaker Andrii Derkach, whom the U.S. government later assessed was a longtime Russian intelligence agent, sanctioning him for distributing disinformation about Joe Biden.[124] Earlier in September 2020, the New York Post itself reported that Derkach was a "pro-Russian member of Kiev's parliament" and stated "Derkach also met with former New York Mayor Giuliani in Kiev in December last year to dig up dirt on Biden."[125]

Other controversies[edit]

In 1997, a national news story concerning Rebecca Sealfon's victory in the Scripps National Spelling Bee circulated. Sealfon was sponsored by the Daily News, a direct in-market competitor. The Post published a picture of her but altered the photograph to remove the name of the Daily News as printed on a placard she was wearing.[126]

In 2004, the Post ran a full-page cover photo of 19-year-old New York University student Diana Chien jumping to her death from the twenty-fourth story of a building.[127][128]

In 2012, the Post was criticized for running a photograph of a man struggling to climb back up onto a subway platform as a train approached, along with the headline "DOOMED."[129][130][131] Facing questions over why he didn't help the man, the photographer claimed he was not strong enough and had been attempting to use the flash on his camera to alert the driver of the oncoming train.[132]

In December 2020,[133] the Post published a story outing an emergency medical technician who made additional income from posting explicit photographs of herself to the subscription website OnlyFans.[134][135] The publication was widely criticized on social media as "doxxing someone simply for trying to earn a living."[134]

In April 2021, Facebook blocked users from sharing a Post story about home real estate purchases by Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors, saying that it violated its privacy and personal information policy.[136][137] In response, the Post argued that it was an arbitrary decision since other newspapers, magazines and websites highlight the real estate purchases of high status individuals.[138] News Media Alliance CEO David Chavern also voiced criticism of the decision, saying in a prepared statement: "There is no balance of power between 'media' and 'Big Tech.'"[139]

In April 2021, the Post published a false front-page story asserting that copies of a book by vice president Kamala Harris were being distributed to migrant children at an intake facility in Long Beach, California.[140] Fox News then published a story about the matter, followed by numerous Republican politicians and pundits commenting on it, in some cases speculating that taxpayers were funding the supposed book handouts for Harris's personal profit.[140][141] Responding to questions from Fox News correspondent Peter Doocy, White House press secretary Jen Psaki expressed no knowledge of the matter; the Post then published a new story headlined "Psaki has no answers when asked about Harris' book being given to child migrants."[142] Four days after the original publication, the Post replaced the story with a new version clarifying that just one Harris book had been donated by a community member but maintained that it was an "open-arms gesture by the Biden administration", though there was no evidence of the administration's involvement.[142] Laura Italiano, the author of the story, resigned that day, asserting she had been "ordered" to write it.[59][142]

In October 2022, a rogue employee of the Post published a series of racist, violent and sexually explicit headlines on its Twitter account. Shortly after these headlines released, a spokesperson for the Post stated that the "vile and reprehensible" headlines were the result of a hack and were immediately removed, and that the incident was under investigation. The spokesperson later stated that "the unauthorized conduct was committed by an employee, and the employee has been terminated."[143]

In February 2023, the newspaper published an article entitled "OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder) is increasingly a commonality among extremist behaviors: researchers".[144] The article was condemned by charities such as OCD-UK.[145] The article was criticised as being insensitive and inappropriate, with OCD-UK stating that it "perpetuates stigma"

i have no idea what rumpole thinks that copy paste proves, but to your question clive - no they didn’t recommend restrictions on puberty blockers, they just said there should be a documented consent process in place when prescribing them (which there should be anyway tbf)

Totally false from Chill, as per usual


From the interim report

3.22. Regardless of the nature of the assessment process, some children and young people will remain fluid in their gender identity up to early to mid-20s, so there is a limit as to how much certainty one can achieve in late teens. This is a risk that needs to be understood during the shared decision making process with the young person.

3.23. It is also important to note that any data that are available do not relate to the current predominant cohort of later-presenting birth-registered female teenagers. This is because the rapid increase in this subgroup only began from around 2014-15. Since young people may not reach a settled gender expression until their mid-20s, it is too early to assess the longer-term outcomes of this group.

4.21. GPs have expressed concern about being pressurised to prescribe puberty blockers or feminising/masculinising hormones after these have been initiated by private providers

4.5. We have heard that some young people learn through peers and social media what they should and should not say to therapy staff in order to access hormone treatment; for example, that they are advised not to admit to previous abuse or trauma, or uncertainty about their sexual orientation. We have also heard that many of those seeking NHS support identify as non-binary, gender non-conforming, or gender fluid. We understand that some young people who identify as non-binary feel their needs are not met by clinical services unless they give a binary narrative about their gender preferences.

5.15.The formal criteria for diagnosing gender dysphoria (DSM-5) are listed in Appendix 3. However, there are two problems associated with the use of these criteria:
Firstly, several of the criteria are based on gender stereotyping which may not be deemed relevant in current society, although the core criteria remain valid.
Secondly, and more importantly, these criteria give a basis on which to make a diagnosis that a young person is clinically distressed by the incongruence between their birth-registered and their experienced gender, but they do not help in determining which factors may have led to this distress and how they might best be resolved

5.17.The challenges are similar to the early difficulties in diagnosing autism, as set out in Appendix 4. As with autism, the framework for assessment needs to become formalised so there are clearer criteria for diagnosis and treatment pathways which are shared more widely. These should incorporate not just whether the child or young person meets DSM-5 criteria for gender dysphoria, but how a broader psychosocial assessment should be conducted and evaluated, and what other factors need to be considered to gain a holistic understanding of the child or young person’s experience. Professional judgement and experience will still be important, but if the frameworks and criteria for assessment and diagnosis were more consistent and reproducible, there would be a greater likelihood that two different people seeing the same child or young person would come to the same conclusion. This would also mean that any research on interventions or long-term outcomes would be more reliable because the criteria on which a diagnosis was made, and hence the patients within the sample, would have the same characteristics.

Totally false from Chill, as per usual

rumpole pick and choosing random paragraphs from the report, none of which recommend restrictions on puberty blockers

rumpole - can you confirm what the cass report’s recommendations were regarding puberty blockers?

i mean i can copy paste as well as you but i’m giving you a chance to retract your nonsense above

i have no idea why rumpole jumped from para 3.23 to 4.21 back to 4.5 tbh

i don’t think rumpole’s actually read the report, just whatever abbreviated version fair play for women or some other anti-trans org has posted on their website

I think Rumpole just assumes that the recommended research and studies are going to confirm their own  position and understanding of the issues and effects. 

Rather than understanding that all medical procedures and treatments should be studied for long term impacts and efficacy. 


Anyone who genuine cares about trans kids should be happy that Cass has recommended that the money, means and time should be dedicated to research which ensures that the care they are receiving is appropriate and best practice. 


I have every faith in the Cass Review delivering multiple changes for the good of children.’

 Why? All the recommendations say is that further study and research is needed. 

Why do you have such ‘faith’ in what is essentially another taxpayer funded review. Other than being so self convinced (without any scientific evidence) of your own underlying assumptions.

Remind me how much good has come out of any other similar exercise?  How many of those buildings with cladding have been fixed after Grenville? 


"fair play for women or some other anti-trans org"

What evidence do you have that Fair Play for Women is an anti-trans org?


"4.21 back to 4.5"

Maybe an additional subject for you to study would be basic maths.

""4.21 back to 4.5"

Maybe an additional subject for you to study would be basic maths."

If you think para 4.21 comes before para 4.5 you (i) need to take your own advice about basic maths (ii) haven't actually looked at the interim report. 

ah well i see rumpole decided against answering my question - disappointing!

clive - to save you having to read the whole bloody thing, this is the report’s recommendations re: puberty blockers:

6.16. Given the uncertainties regarding puberty blockers, it is particularly important to demonstrate that consent under this circumstance has been fully informed
and to follow GMC guidance by keeping an accurate record of the exchange
of information leading to a decision in order to inform their future care and to help explain and justify the clinician’s decisions and actions.

13: Within clinical notes, the stated purpose of puberty blockers as explained to the child or young person and parent should be
made clear. There should be clear documentation of what information has been provided to each child or young person on likely outcomes and side effects of all hormone treatment, as well as uncertainties about longer-term outcomes.


Total nonsense from Chill


1.5. The Review is not able to provide definitive advice on the use of puberty blockers and feminising/masculinising hormones at this stage, due to gaps in the evidence base; however, recommendations will be developed as our research programme progresses.

What Chill and Warren's manifesto subjects children in the peak of development to:


3.30. In the short-term, puberty blockers may have a range of side effects such as headaches, hot flushes, weight gain, tiredness, low mood and anxiety, all of which may make day-to-day functioning more difficult for a child or young person who is already experiencing distress. Short‑term reduction in bone density is a well-recognised side effect, but data is weak and inconclusive regarding the long‑term musculoskeletal impact.

Ah, good morning Rumpole. Couple of questions:

- were you wrong to accuse another poster of "just reacting to clickbait articles" when your first contribution to this thread was a paste job from one of the least trusted and most sensationalist US media outlets ?

- does paragraph 4.21 come before paragraph 4.5 in the interim Cass report ?

Total nonsense from Chill

um everything i’ve said on this thread has been accurate rumpole

do you normally try to win arguments by copy-pasting irrelevant stuff and just hope people give up?

It is not Chill. You've lied multiple times. There is nothing you won't claim, in order to further your manifesto, despite irreversible harm being caused to children.


Just 1 example of your lies:

"this is the report’s recommendations re: puberty blockers"

The report states:

"1.5. The Review is not able to provide definitive advice on the use of puberty blockers and feminising/masculinising hormones at this stage, due to gaps in the evidence base; however, recommendations will be developed as our research programme progresses."

rumpole i literally quoted the report’s recommendations on puberty blockers in this thread

your quote is from the summary at the beginning (and still doesn’t recommend any restrictions on puberty blockers!)

question - have you actually read the report?

and is your quote from 3.30 meant to evidence the “irreversible harm” caused? 

as a scientist you must be aware that those side effects could be caused by many many medications that are prescribed to children (tbh they could be caused by the process of going through puberty itself, which is presumably your favored course of action)

How can you still be this ignorant after we've been through this so many times? The first step is a decade plus of research. Do you not wonder why I keep going on about the need for research, and why you see that then also stated in the Cass Report? For obvious reasons. Do you imagine we  go with whatever we feel on any given day? We are an evidence-based discipline. We gather research over a decade+, then inform on what we've observed (which is never tabloid-esque headlines that you're prone to stating). We don't just pull opinions out of the air. We don't just advocate when we have 1 research report. The first step is to establish the research base.


"(tbh they could be caused by the process of going through puberty itself, which is presumably your favored course of action)"

Again nonsense. A child going through puberty isn't an intervention. It is part of their biological development.

Because Rumtroll has zero capacity for independent thought. 

They copy pasta anti trans propaganda from wherever.. but are then incapable of defending it because they never actually properly understood it.. or the weakness in its arguments before posting it.

so they run and hide. 


In the absence of Anna to step up to the plate to do the ‘thinking’ for them Rumtroll can do nothing more. 

Oh a lot of Anna’s stuff was copy and paste too, Scy. One only needs to spend 5 mins on anti-trans twitter and see how often the exact same phrases are used.