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Chancellor crucified

On the Today programme, cant see how he is surviving this.

Haven’t heard Nick R on better form. KK would have to quit if he admitted error and will probably have to quit anyway. Ugly. 

So:

1. They didn’t tell the Caninet about abolishing the 45% rate.

2. They didn’t run it past the OBR. 
 

They look totally green. 

They are running on ideaology rather than any political or economic sense.    One slight consolation is that it seems there is some limit to government idiocy Tory MPs and the electorate will put up with, as it was starting to look like there was no limit.

He did fine, very calm. Normal people really aren’t interested in this kind of ‘gotcha’ stuff. Only on rof…..

guy, was having a top rate of 40%  in 12 out of the 13 years of new labour "ideological"?  or is that just how you describe it when it's proposed under a Conservative government?

And there we are.

Move along, nothing to see here, screeching u turns that cost 65bn are really not that important.

Diceman its all about timing you seem to be as hard of understanding as Truss and the chancellor.

So the BoE didn’t spend 65bn to dig your boy out of a hole of his own making?

Do tell us again how we have always been at war with Eastasia.

I was going to say absolutely murdered him. But he didn't. He asked some straight questions, waited until he had stopped bullshitting and evading, asked them again and then let the answers speak for themselves, underscored the conclusion of those responses for the hard of learning, then moved on to broader contextual ones. Bloody good interview.  One area he could have put the boot in further was about how he put the PM in the position of having to commit to Laura K that she was totally behind it and not giving it up yesterday.  How can they credibly continue this duohehsome. 

I’m sure hanners will be along in a moment to explain how this was actually what they had planned all along mutters

OK. that will bring a note of comedy into an otherwise bloody disgraceful period of our nation's history. 

I got a text from a client in Toronto last week saying what's going on, what have you done to the GBP? FFS. 

I think its just naivety and inexperience showing - the 45 rate is not necessarily something i like (given i have to pay more tax) but now was not the time to do - you do it when you have achevied your growth, everyone is celebrating a larger pie, so you can get "relaxed" about high earners as mandelson put it.

We have to share the pain in the teeth of inflation at this level and the impending recession - focus on the supply side reforms and try and get growth firing - if that actually does occur then start handing out the boons. 

Borrowing for a higher rate tax cut is like borrowing to pay for nurses - the direct impact on productivity either way is negligenable - if it was borrowing to improve transport infra or digital assets to to subsidise growth technologies i would get it - we cant just borrow and kick the problem to the next generation. 

Embarrassing late U-turns after the damage is done? Now THAT is the BoJo continuity government we have been waiting for.

Healthcare is the largest bottleneck in the British economy right now, borrowing to pay for nurses is about the most productivity-impactful step the government could take and the markets want us to do it. 

I HAVEN'T LISTENED TO IT MYSELF BUT I AM SURE HE DID VERY WELL AND IN ANY CASE ORDINARY PEOPLE AREN'T INTERESTED IN THE FINANCIAL MARKETS AND "MORTGAGE RATES" AND SO ON

naivety and inexperience showing, also unbelievable arrogance. The Chancellor is an intelligent guy, but he is not as intelligent as he thinks he is and has a political tin ear it seems (the naivety yes).

Its interesting he took so long to get to cabinet, whereas Rishi's rise was stellar and much quicker.

The BoE is only going to spend up to £65bn to rescue the economy from the disastrous policies of Truss and KamiKwasi. That's ok then.
 

Have you got any proof of how much has been spent so far risky? You claim £5bn... 

Pancake - the NHS needs a fundamental reform to be able to cope with the demographic challenges it currently faces - you have an ever smaller tax base paying more tax on worse benefits for a growing proportion of pensioners "who have paid their tax" but get much better benefits and perks than the current work force will ever see.

The borrowing should go towards healthcare, but 30,000 extra nurses wouldnt see an uptick in productivity, it would just be more money into the money pit that is the NHS - it wouldnt address GP access, the early retirement of skilled doctors, social care gaps (both for the elderly, but also mental health where the police often have to pick up the slack).

I wasnt saying dont spend it on healthcare, but simply giving existing nurses a pay rise or hiring a bunch more wouldnt have the productivity boost we need to fund the borrowing.  

BBB we dont spend enough on health care, thats the problem, not the NHS which is widely acknowledged to be the most cost efficient system available, if we change the system it will become even more expensive.   NHS has huge efficiencies built into the system such as near monopoly status leading to cheaper medicine and equipment procurement and labour, very little paper pushing with invoices/insurance; no incentive to over treat.  These are MAJOR efficiencies.

They obviously are absolute pillocks, but I don’t actually understand why they feel obliged to now retain the forty fiver.

Does anyone have a link to the interview, I missed it and am keen to watch i. I've looked on YouTube but couldn't find it there...thank you!

Don’t underestimate how inept this makes us all look to people overseas btw. There’s a point where if you can’t put your house in order by voting out the awfuls you’re deemed to approve of them. And no amount of whataboutery gets you out of that.

Perhaps I am being overoptimistic but is this the moment the lunatics start to lose their grip of the asylum?

Feels like we are all just collectively sick of all this “I’m focused on…” “we’re determined to…” stuff in lieu of answering the question

That’s the problem with both sides cookie. Many o f them are just reliving their student politics ‘fun’

Bigbadbillybob03 Oct 22 09:18

the NHS needs a fundamental reform to be able to cope with the demographic challenges it currently faces - you have an ever smaller tax base paying more tax on worse benefits for a growing proportion of pensioners "who have paid their tax" but get much better benefits and perks than the current work force will ever see.

_____________________________________________________________________________

the country needs a fundamental reform and debateable how many of those pensioners have truly 'paid their tax' 

but anyway, the UK has far too many couch potato pensioners who get thrown on the scrap heap and then basically just sit in their houses rotting. It is well established that mobility and social interaction are some of the best ways of keeping people healthy. 

We need either some sort of expansion of hiking clubs or, given the general contempt for proactive health measures that the UK has, some sort of national service to get these black holes of nhs funding out and about and active. 

the basic problem is this,  many perfectly fit people spend decades sitting around doing nothing.   The retirement model is broken,   state pensions should be replaced with universal income that incentivises everybody regardless of age to work if they can

National Services for OAPs. We need workhouses fit for the 21st Century. Treadmills with wheelchair access.  

Kwarteng was surprisingly useless during the interview wasn't he? You could have made a better defence than he did (not that I think his mini budget was anything other than a complete crock). Instead had his ass handed to him on a plate repeatedly and then got weakly shirty and tried to distort the facts. Unable to close down lines of questioning. Couldn't even make his own future plans sound even barely OK - vague waffle about had a growth plan, got a fiscal plan, then a budget. You don't like these rabbits? I got others! Hopeless.

Interesting example of how someone can be bright in abstract but not in application. 

Good to see Nick R on song, doing his job as a journo. 

In a country where forming/reforming political parties was feasible, these would surely be the death throes of the Tory party?

Once the brexiteers took over the Conservative party, they were no longer the Conservative party and by almost definition they were people who lacked all wisdom.    I now think they will be thrashed in the next election there will be electoral reform and the party will split.

I mean if the criteria for rising in the party is that you signed up for something deeply deeply stupid, it stands to reason you going to end up with less then requisite quality in charge.

"some sort of national service"

sending your granny to fight in Ukraine would be one of this government's more moderate policies tbf

I agree with you Sumo - i was air quoting the "paid their tax" for that very reason (most pensioners except those earning a pretty sizable salary most of their working life, have been a net minus on the paid in versus paid out, yet that argument seems always be trotted out whenever there is a debate about removing universal benfits for pensioners versus crapp - both your and Guys suggestions are pretty sensible and things i wouldnt mind a bit of borrowing to prime the pump for (as you can see the argument for increased productivity).

 

KK sounded like what he is - an autistic overpromoted overentitled inexperienced arrogant cock.

It was a great interview. Robinson was brilliant, not Humphrey levels of pushy gotcha but held his line, calm, but also showed kk up as completely out of his depth and not fit for role 

This is super basic - the problem for the economy is the cost of living, ie, the cost of energy and inflation.

To counteract that you have to pursue a monetary policy, ie, the Bank of England puts up the interest rates but the aim is the sweet spot of countering inflation whilst at the same time not crippling mortgage holders.

You don't then pursue an aggressive fiscal policy based on unfunded borrowing that is completely counter-productive to the carefully balanced monetary policy. Totally UKIP, ideologically driven idiots.

How are really old people or people who are retired who  have chronic health problems supposed to cope?