David Steel

Has not aged well. I wonder if it is the nagging conscience.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-47573243

he's really old! what should someone that age look like?

The whole thing is quite extraordinary - why would you not report somebody who admitted child abuse to you?  I realise with some crimes you may way up trust and friendship v wider duty but surely something like this is a no brainer?

I don't know I mean I can imagine him being like "at the time we didnt really have any sense of this sort of thing and I just didnt know what to do and ofc I had no idea how bad it was"

but instead he's all "yes I knew everything and I would DO THE SAME AGAIN"

I was shocked at how old Soames looks

Fasting was not a good idea 

Thin end of the wedge I fear m7s.  Thin used with all due irony.

His excuses are pitiful -- he wasn't an mp when he did it (but he was when he confessed to you), the police did not take action (but yeah he did tell me had done it), I didn't think he was a risk (bollocks). 

Also as I said on the other thread - DS lied about it just last year in an interview when he said all the allegations against CS were lies. 

 

I think the truth is this - in 79 he just didn't care.

I think, to the extent he gave it much thought, he didn't think the crime was that serious

There seemed to be some hint that Steele was scared of Smith as well. But I think diceman has it. 

Really disappointed by this.  Always used to like David Steel.  

That said it is hard to think yourself back into the atmosphere of the 1970s and attitudes were quite different then.  

As I would expect all Roffers to know there are only very limited duties to report crimes and DS was (I think) not obliged by law to report these crimes when he was told of them.  But he damn well should have.  

While I think it should be obvious what he should have done, I am wary of being judged by people not yet born on what I might have done and thought right now.  Fucking hell I lob coal and wood on a fire just because I like how it feels in my living room and spank a sports car because it makes me happy.  No doubt I'll be harshly judged in 50 years time if I'm not dead (which I plan to be)

"Always used to like David Steel"

 

I cant really remember him apart from the brilliant spitting image sketches of him and David Owen being madly in love

tiny david steel in david owen's jacket top pocket wasn't it?

as has been hinted at above - things were different. "this sort of thing" just wasn't talked about if at all possible, repressed, brushed under the carpet, ignored - ANYTHING except confront such stuff. unimaginable now and horrifying how we are all moulded by our time.

I mean I didn't report to the police the racist hate speech that was going on at my school in the early 80's.

There is child abuse and child abuse, I guess consensual sex with a 15 year old is of a different order (particularly in the 1970s) to full on "kiddy fiddling" not sure what the confession was exactly.

tell us about the racist hate speech. are you referring to 'jokes' like 'what do yo uthrow a drowning Ethiopian"?

As was recently admitted on here, ‘flid’ ,’joey’ etc were in common parlance, as was ‘Paki’, ‘bum chum’ etc, used by some in complete ignorance of their meanings. Enquiring minds eh?

what Segno said.

i remember in late seventies he was pin up Lib, a real hero to my late father ( true Lib, before LibDems. As a family we were discouraged against LibDems).

He sponsored the bill that legalised abortion in 1967 and was by far the most effective Liberal of his generation. If this issue ruins his reputation it will be an utter tragedy. 

Wot cookie said. Also handled the Thorpe affair well.

I think this is appears to have been a very serious misjudgement but not bad enough to trash his entire reputation.

he's suspended from the party and I doubt will return

this was also the exact thought process he will have gone through "oh such a shame to trash a chap's reputation"

learn the lesson. 

I think you misunderstand me, I agree he should be suspended from the party and the issue should be made public - I just don't think it is of an order of magnitude to negate all the good stuff he has done in his life

It doesn't negate it - he still did it. But if he was forward thinking enough to support legalising abortion in 1967 presumably he was evolved enough to know that fucking children is wrong in 1979

basically he didn't care

I don't understand why men can't separate the two (and consequently so often make decisions like he did, to brush things under the carpet).

You can do good works and still be a complete and utter cunt who should be condemned for it. Nothing comes from milkshake ducking a guy.

Not saying he was a complete and utter cunt, he was probably alright for a politician, and clearly he did good things professionally but he was also clearly part of the old boys club like the rest of them and as a consequence a lot of little boys had their lives completely ruined. 

You can hold those two facts in your head at the same time, both are valid.

 

Shocked by some comments on this. He appears to have turned a blind eye to child abuse in the past, but what is worse is him lying again and again about it since - including last year! 

He knew that CS was a paedophile and yet claimed over and over it was all horrid lies. He is a despicable man who told people that the victims were lying when he know the truth. He did this in 2018 not in the old days when being a kiddy fiddler was "ok". 

 

Er, yes  I don't disagree with anything you say - think you are setting up something of a straw man here....

there are some men who cover for other men by instinct, wibble

because losing your reputation is worse than dozens of orphans being horrigically abused

you seem concerned about his reputation, guy

his reputation is as a child abuse facilitator

which is depressing, it feels as though not only is now in chaos but all the old certainties of then are being dismantled

that was to Clergs, but wibble I admit I had not focussed on the lying about it -that is less forgivable.

Do we know if child abuse was on-going or historic when admitted?  If historic, I don't think you can term him a facilitator.

It happened before steel knew about it, and then happened again in the 80s

if he had reported him then the subsequent abuse would not have happened

 

he isn't a moron, he cannot genuinely have thought "phew well it's over and will never happen again!"

Ok then yes in that case, his poor judgment did facilitate abuse-  cant argue with a that.

 

In fact, I am going to drop this - you have convinced me comment was not justified. .

Peado's do not just stop being peados. 

by ignoring it at the time he enabled him to take positions of power and could abuse more. 

Throughout the 70s and 80s there were lots of rumours and stories and he did nothing again. He clearly had serious suspicions but did nothing and carried on saying the allegations were lies.

 

Yeah he did some good political stuff. So what? M Jackson wrote some good songs. 

 

wtf someone has changed their mind on rof!

*balloons fall from ceiling*

*music plays*

I think he gets a reasonableness trophy too

*fetches the industrial duster* 

heh make the most of it...

 

In my rather simple moral world I tend to distinguish between errors of judgment which may deserve criticism, even serious criticism with serious consequences  and being "bad", which is involves an overall moral judgment on a persons life.   I think I viewed this originally as an error of judgment but now accept it is actually "bad".

it's baffling - looking at the detail - the revolting bucket of lard admitted his crimes directly to steel. how on earth did he (even in a very different cultural climate) decide to do nothing? why would he effectively hang himself by admitting to it now? unless it's his conscience's revenge. 

Guy fair enough you’ve changed your mind but if you’d just read the fvcking article in the first place we could have saved ourselves 20 posts of wibbling. 

Also not sure I agree the lying about facilitating is worse than actually facilitating 

Guy - do you have strong views on how the course treat those who accidentally kill whilst driving?

Predictable comments here from those who presumably would be happy for their own poor decisions to be rubbed in their face for the rest of their lives.

"poor decisions" 

I dread to think what your view on the line between poor decisions and being a shit person might be. 

 

 

 

Lol like women being excoriated on this board for "poor" decisions isn't already a thing that happens. 

cookie - do you immediately black out after you post or what? you are constantly gloating and rubbing other people's perceived flaws in their faces as though you think it detracts from, rather tha highlights, your own. Everyone makes mistakes but you don't have to be so ceaselessly nasty all the time, that's not a mistake it's a policy.

 

Zero - I do not udnerstand the car thing.

I think zero is suggesting Guy is laz. It was one of his tedious pet things 

I don't remember that!

wait did he think that it was fine to do the bird box challenge while on spice and with one hand tied behind your back and if an entire family happened to die as a consequence it was wrong to criticise you?

It is interesting how you can fully admit you were wrong on rof and yet somehow people still manage to keep the argument going...

No but laz thought that in all regards criminal intention should only attach to intention so there should be no such thing as negligent manslaughter etc. Particularly in relation to driving offences. 

Guy it is Cookie who always seems terribly keen that people are not too harsh on poor little sexual predators who made a bad decison or two, or some reason. 

Oh it’s you

Whereas people who repeatedly take advantage of public services at the expense of those less able, they’re ok presumably?

No I was suggesting he was hank who also used to talk about the car thing a lot but on reflection what does it matter what we call ourselves?

cookie, nobody on this board uses public services except, demonstrably, you

 

go private for all our sakes

"people who repeatedly take advantage of public services at the expense of those less able"

 

wtf are you talking about? 

Have you been stealing library books and drawing cocks on them again? 

Very disappointing news about Steel.

Guy is way to reasonable to be Laz.

That’s demonstrably absurd clergs, have another go. Show your working. 

Speaking for myself, which is all I can do, I tend to go private wherever possible. I also contribute a few hundred pounds a year supporting charities that help people who need privately funded amenities but can't afford it themselves, including those from overseas.

I am probably among the least affluent of rof so I expect my input is paltry in comparison to the average.

I am sure you can tell us all about your amazing and world changing approach in the morning. 

I would be very surprised if there was a single roffer who didnt use public services.

Personally, there's trains and buses, NHS, bin collection, libraries, schools etc.  

It’s gone way off topic wango. The point is that Clergs and hoolie took objection at me pointing out DS’ role in a major piece of equality legislation from which millions like them have benefited, because as ever it’s inconvenient to their boo hurrah ethics for there to be both good and bad, widely defined, in one person. 

DS, ghastly, ghastly creature

Typical 60's manchild mouthing liberal platitudes to plaudits 

No surprise that when he had to act like an adult he flaked