The victims of Mr Woodford's funds

So Mr Woodford is still coining it in with £100k a day fees

When Dennis Deane and his wife Janet chose the Woodford Equity Income Fund, they wanted a 'safe and steady' investment option for their £40,000 nest egg

Even if Woodford hadn't lost the plot and fucked it up spectaculalry, an equity fund of any description is not safe and steady.

"Dennis, a father-of-two, says: 'The bottom fell out of my stomach when I realised I couldn't get my money out. "

How long can he keep them locked out? As soon as he opens the funds to release funds he will have to close it again.

What a bunch of twats.

"after sustaining losses over the past few years, he decided to opt for Neil Woodford, who they believed was reliable" - roll up for the Woodford guaranteed return fund. Presumably there will be a Heil article on the funds that sustained the other losses soon. Who puts all their money in a single fund?

What has been interesting about this all is how bloody clueless some people that invest in equities are. I assume they are all crying for the desperate individuals losing hand over fist down their local bookies and want a comprehensive system that ensures only gains for all on all "investments"? Presumably they missed the fact that Henderson shut its real estate fund a couple of years ago? 

Buzz what about infra funds? They're fairly safe and steady. 

They're infra funds though aren't they. Not equity funds as such.

 

For the uninitiated what's the difference? They take equity stakes in infra related companies.

I think most infrastructure funds do a combination of ordinary equity, preferred equity and debt investments with a tendency more to the fixed interest/fixed divi side of things rather than the more ordinary equity skewed portfolio of what would be regarded as a normal equity income fund. And of course the underlying businesses themselves infrastructure funds tend to have much more predictable revenues.

The truth is that apart from interest rate sensitive stocks, and Facebook etc, there has been a bear market in equities and the real economy ever since the New York bankers fraud of 2008

So the likes of Woodford have to speculate on wild eyed AIM stocks 

This is why I've historically invested through an intermediary with enough clout to go and question the people running the funds they invest in to find out exactly what's going on rather than relying on a tip in the Sunday Times.

Infra funds are good because they are negotiating against governments, purveyors of such successes as the East Coast Main Line, Brexit emergency ferries, and procurement of destroyers that don't work in hot water. 

Prob not the time to go in for UK ones though as I doubt Corbyn is planning on paying market rate for the assets he is "taking back control" over. 

I have put all my money into pork bellies and frozen orange juice

"I was shocked to learn that the magic beans i bought were not magic. The man selling the magic beans was awfully nice"

You mean like St James's Place and Hargreaves Lansdown did with Woodford Investment Management sailerz?

I've always invested through an intermediary as I like the way they take extra money off me, keep Next in business with their suits, and leave their entire portfolio of recommendations to some OpenWork software. 

No slightly more discerning than either of those Buzz.  People who have decent analysts who do some research and pick holes in strategies.  There are some good SJP franchises but some spectacularly awful ones too.

The awesome Mark Carney joining in the kicking yesterday. Judging from his comments Woodford is not the only manager in town exploiting retail investor ignorance of liquidity risk to pile into low liquidity securities to massage returns. Interesting to see how his proposed crackdown pans out. 

Looks like it will be another month before investors can cash their money. I wonder how much their investments will be worth

Thankfully no one would have placed more than 10-20% of their total investments in Mr Woodfood's fund.

Another month? It'll be more than that. He'll need a hell of a lot of cash to meet the redemptions and he's already sold off anything with any level of liquidity and is down to his third liners of toxic garbage which will take forever to flog at anything like book value.

short term money, long term investments?
 

didn't we learn anything from the global financial crisis?

Spoiler: No

 

(if you want to make long term "patient" investments then I know of just the sort of fund for you)

 

I think you're right Clubbers. There are so many funds of funds now that are invested in others funds of funds "trading" bags and bags of ETFs. Who knows what the actual underlying investment classes are . It's  reminscent of CDOs 

I see on reviewing the detailed holdings report for a charity that IT MADE MONEY ON WOODFORD PATIENT CAPITAL holdings.

 

obviously the sleepy stockbrokers from somewhere up north made inspired market timing calls. trading in and out.

(possibly; but I can't help but feel they've bunged a load of other client's money in it

If they'd bought into the IPO then IIRC it almost immediately went up to a double digit premium to NAV based purely on NFs track record at Invesco.  Clobbered again yesterday when Muddy Waters had a crack at Burford which is WPCT's second biggest holdings.  That said, Burford fucked up royally by releasing an RNS about the report before they even knew it was about them....

"Burford believes that yesterday's share price movement relates to a rumour of a potential "short attack" or "bear raid", a tactic where short sellers take on a short position in a company's stock and then engage in claims about the company in an effort to alarm investors, depress a company's stock and profit from the decline.  Burford also believes that some of its prior recent share price volatility is related to such activity.     

There is a clear line between appropriate commentary and market manipulation, and Burford is investigating, with the assistance of market experts and experienced outside litigation counsel, the market activities here and will take appropriate legal action should we discover actionable misconduct.  We are strongly suspicious that yesterday's significant fall in the share price was based on such actionable misconduct.

Short sellers of this ilk are not long-term investors.  Rather, their goal is to panic investors into selling their holdings and thereby to drive down the share price.  If investors oblige them, then the attack succeeds, long-term investors are harmed and the short sellers pocket a quick payday.

Companies are largely powerless to intervene in this dynamic other than by continuing to perform, just as Burford has been; the way to thwart the attacks is for investors to recognize manipulation for what it is and not behave as the short sellers hope."

 

 

So, does this mean everyone has lost their money except for Mr Woodford?

They're not all OAPs.  They are, however, all fuckwits.

He's still getting his management fee for managing the gated EIF. Greedy ladypart.  You think he'd fucking waive it.  

Sorry chaps, lost most of your money and you can't get out what's left.  I'm still going to charge you the normal (mis)management fee though. Lol" 

Only they haven't "lost" their money.  They have made a loss on their investment and now can't access it.  The FCA should intervene.  But they won't, because they're too fucking thick to understand it.

fca should go "you know that reg cap you've got to manage a wind down? fvcking use it and waive the management fee"