Is there a difference between an unwanted advance and harassment?

I was having this conversation with a date last night - her view was that there was a difference between an unwanted advance and actual harassment - I thought these days, post #metoo there isn't any difference, assuming the person making the pass is in a more senior position?

I think there is a difference, and once you're past adolescence you should be able to work it out for yourself.

 

but I may be out of touch.  Isn't metoo just about not being an arse

I think she's right.  Harassment is persisting once it is clear the advance is unwanted, or making an advance when you are in a position of power and influence in relation to the other person. 

 

But it is possible to mis-read the signals and go for an unwanted kiss without it constituting harassment.  Despite what the snowflake brigade would have you believe.

 

Is someone trying to steal your precious seed again, LA?

if you're in the workplace, assume it's always unwanted.  People go to work to work and get money, rather than a middle-guy showing he's a catch to a 24 year old intern.

If you not in the work place, proceed carefully and subtly and take no for an answer, not a setback.

I think technically harassment is supposed to be a repeat pattern of behaviour, so what Badman said about persisting with an unwanted advance once it should be clear that it isn't wanted.

But I'm not sure I agree with that principle. There are some situations in which it should not be necessary to actually make an unwanted advance to know that it is unwanted. You should just know. In those situations even a one off occurrence should be enough to constitute harassment IMO.

Harassment is, as I understand it, a clearly defined statutory thing.

It can occur, relatively uniquely, by virtue of its effect on the object rather than the intention of the subject.

So whether it is in fact harassment is up the harassee.

Obviously there is a difference, otherwise how would anyone initiate any kind of physical contact. 

Is this thread going to descend into "I get consent in writing before touching a woman" by any chance?

"post #metoo there isn't any difference, assuming the person making the pass is in a more senior position?"

 

dont try it on with staff fgs 

It's going to descend into "if you're a qualified lawyer in your 40s with 3 kids, a wife who doesn't understand you, and a lot less hair/more gut than when you were 25 - then perhaps wait for the 24 year old trainee to make the first move."

I think that's a fair assessment, JM.  Both of the destination of this thread, and the reality of things.

and, while you wait, dial-down the thirst stares. 

You should never shit where you eat.

Making a pass at a coworker, more senior, less senior or whatever is always a completely fucking stupid idea, unless its a summer job at a pub.

Obviously there is a difference, otherwise how would anyone initiate any kind of physical contact. 

I suggest the answer is that the kind of people who aren't sure of the difference should err on the side of caution and not engage in any kind of physical contact, thus removing themselves from the gene pool.

"if you're a qualified lawyer in your 40s with 3 kids, a wife who doesn't understand you, and a lot less hair/more gut than when you were 25 - then perhaps wait for the 24 year old trainee to make the first move"

Or, you know, wait until you're divorced rather than cheating on your wife.

"You should never shit where you eat."

probably a good principle but probably a lot of us didn't apply it in our 20s

I’m going out on a limb here, but I think that was sarcasm, Anna.

I've worked in offices where there were tons of people in relationships. As far as I'm aware, nearly all of them are still married now. I wouldn't do it personally but some people seem to manage fine.

He already has a beard, I mean, girlfriend, Badders.

People will be pleased to hear I work in an almost exclusively male work environment anyway so none of this is an issue for me.