So what exactly is the deal with the independence group?

It's not a party but it has members but they might not run in an actual election so basically it's just a suicide squad until they get deselected.

Right?!

Stop sowing confusing damnir

it's a group! get with the programme. they're all against brexit

Why can't you be in a group AND a party?? Like in the EU!

They just can't bear to be associated with their respective parties anymore, and frankly, who can blame them?

Plus when Brexit turns into an epic clusterfuck, they will be on the right side of history (albeit probably too late to have made any real difference).

I reckon history will have it that Brexit was the patriotic right path and we will be obliged to spit on their images

their calculation is neat. If they are enough MPs they will hold the sway in this hung parliament. 

Corbyn wants an election or force a by-election and May won't allow that. 

 

Idk the EU is pretty smug I'd probably get on board (esp if I got to be a dystopic sector leader)

At least, not unless Brexit leads us to some kind of dystopian 1984 style future where the truth is what the government says it is, the past is rewritten and any dissenters are quickly and quietly disappeared.

Which of course couldn't happen because we are protected by the human righ.... oh.

 

Well my point was that history is subjective but I think also there isn't THAT much unambiguous support for the EU, which is at the end of the day quite weird.

If there was passionate support for remain we would see more traffic stopping protests and floods of letters to MPs.

The amendments to delay or withdraw art 50 got laughed out of parliament.

Well, quite.

First they came for Shamima Begum but nobody cared because she was a jihadi bride.

Then they came for EU citizens in the UK but nobody cared because they don't have the right to vote.

Then they came for remain supporters...

Etc.

If there was passionate support for remain we would see more traffic stopping protests and floods of letters to MPs.

That's the thing about the EU.

It's not easy to be passionate about it. It's easier if you consider yourself European and you are as passionate about that part of your identity as you are about being British, or if you are actually the kind of person that uses your treaty rights to live and work all over the continent, but most people aren't.

The EU is a distant, rules-based organisation concerned primarily with cross-border trade, and most people don't have the first clue about what it actually does for them personally, or for the area where they live.

It's much easier to make people passionate about being British, or having £350m a week to spend on the NHS, or being able to clamp down on foreign criminals and benefit cheats. Doesn't take much to make people froth at the mouth about all that kind of thing.

But there you go.

War poetry this time around is going to suck

What passing retweet for those who die as cattle

I think the greater likelihood is that most people don't much like the EU and never have.

Which is their prerogative. 

I think the greater likelihood is that most people don't much like the EU and never have.

Most people don't know enough about the EU for their like or dislike of it to be based on anything concrete.

Well that's democracy 

I think there's a good philosophical argument against it but you'd have to be kind of a purist

If I should lose my EU citizenship, think only this of me

that there’s some corner of a sunny Norfolk field still in favour of the harmonisation of financial promotion regimes

I have a feeling a number of this group will get back into Parliament in an election on the basis that they may not have the support of their local Labour party any more but still have plenty of support among their constituents who are not remotely interested in the internal workings of political parties.  Most people will simply think they've been a good MP for X years and will continue to be good so I'll vote for them rather than an unknown Labour party candidate.

??? there are indeed the tribal voters who won't vote for anyone else but they are I suspect a minority and there will be some floating voters who'll now vote for these people as they are no longer allied to Corbyn, etc.  It certainly isn't as simple as everyone who voted for them will vote for a one eyed two legged donkey as long as it's wearing a red rosette.

I am the ultimate floating voter. If only I voted in a marginal constituency.

It certainly isn't as simple as everyone who voted for them will vote for a one eyed two legged donkey as long as it's wearing a red rosette.

 

It pretty much is that simple in places like streatham

Diceman you haven't been to Streatham recently have you?  It's now full of privately educated middle class yummy mummies who wouldn't dream of voting for Labour.

It's not about loving the EU shurely but about pointing out the social, economic and political benefits we enjoy as a member and all that we will lose as a pointless backwater third world country full of utter utter fuckwits

 

PS there is a plan to turn it into a proper party...presume they are trying to get finance sorted

Sails those people all vote labour. 

Look at Battersea, Clapham,Dulwich, Ealing, Greenwich,  Hampstead and Kilburn, Holborn, Hammersmith, Islington, Kensington, Tooting, Walthamstow, Westminster , etc.

All over flowign with middle class young families and all very strong Labour seats

Streatham is one of the last of those areas to have gentrified and don't think we've seen the influence of that in an election yet.  You also ignore Wandsworth which is staunchly conservative but has been leaking voters to surrounding areas as it's got too expensive.

So you're talking about affluent, educated people of working age then, Saillaw?

The kind of people most likely to support remain?

The idea, surely, is to form a group of sensible people who, together with the Lib Dems, hold the balance of power in parliament. It’s a shame they didn’t do this before we exercised Article 50! Because of how many of you idiots inexplicably still voted tory in 2017, they still need a few more conservatives, but I dare say they’ll get them.

Wandsworth has 3 MPs, Marsha De Cordova, Justine Greening and Rosena Allin-Khan. 

Its is rabidly left wing.

Any bets on who will be the next Tory to jump ship?

Dominic Grieve would be a massive feather in their cap.

Justine Greening is a Tory (but she might not be one tomorrow).

All the london tories are dead in the water at the next GE so they may as well all hop

possibly one of the more vocal ones like Philip Lee. 

I don't think Grieve will jump, although that would make me heart him even more

If anything comes of this long term, which is doubtful, it may well be the establishment - at last! - of a proper middle-class reform party that has a hand on the balance of power most of the time. The Lib Dems once tried to be this, but the problem is that almost all Lib Dems are unspeakable c@nts.

People mock this move as electoral suicide, but any london MP joining the independent group has a fair chance of re-election on their own ticket on the basis of the Remain vote alone.

You think including "Let's remain in the EU" will be in anyone's manifesto in 3 years' time ?

“punish the big parties for brexit” will certainly be in these guys’

 

(and anyway, probably yes, as I don’t think we’ll leave)

I imagine the gang of four had this level of scepticism back in '81

I really hope this works

You think including "Let's remain in the EU" will be in anyone's manifesto in 3 years' time ?

No.

If we leave it will be "let's rejoin the EU because this is, objectively speaking, a fucking disaster" or if something spectacular happens between now and March and we end up remaining after all it will be "let's make everything better and never speak of that Brexit debacle ever again".

Next week will be the big test won't it?  eg if the Cooper-Letwin amendment fails the likes of Boles will surely jump ship.  He's only not ready to leave 'yet'. 

The guy with the surname I can’t soell, begins with G, Tory - his answer when asked if he’d jump, decoded, was basically “maybe, so long as I’m not the first tory”.

Sam Gyimah.

I once did some work for him and wasn't particularly impressed, but have since revised my opinion of him.

I scoff at the idea that we’ll leave the EU to be honest. The only short term workable solution is postponement and the only workable long term solution is a second referendum putting remain up against a specific model for exit. Everyone knows this; we are just having to go through this stupid dance before it is accepted.

I hope you're right but parliament is full of utter fucknuggets.

if the remain vote in London is so important, explain Vauxhall.

80% voted remain. But Hoey (brexit campaigner) got a massive increase in her vote in 2017.  the lib dem managed 10,000 votes and campaigned exclusively on a stop brexit ticket.

 

It is not my job to explain Vauxhall

Heh. Guardian reporting 

"Hearing Labour party staff have had their access to membership and voter contact databases removed today - does party fear more MPs could leave, and take data with them....?"

Who's next?

Didnt Anna Soubry go against the wishes of her constituents to promote Remain? Not that she couldnt stand anywhere else of course.

soubry soft pedalled in her 2017 election address saying she'd voted to trigger article 50 and it was time to move on. together with a big picture of her and Theresa may

Didnt Anna Soubry go against the wishes of her constituents to promote Remain?

That doesn't mean she's not acting in their best interests.

sure but my wider point was that she prob wouldnt get reelected in her existing constituency, as someone up there suggested earlier.

Anna Soubry will no doubt stand (and probably win) in a remain area where there is a hard left Labour candidate and a brexiteer Tory candidate.