Self promoters

You know the type.

All mouth, no trousers. CVs largely fabricated. People who have met them a couple of times think they're the bee's knees, people who work closely with them fvcking loathe them. Change jobs every two to three years for the next big thing and everyone is glad to see the back of them.

What happens to these people eventually?

Does their behaviour catch up with them in the end, or do they just end up at the top of the food chain?

What happens when they are the boss though?

I can't see anyone being happy to work for this person for very long.

I reckon they do very well for themselves by and large. Job hopping to areas of high growth and low accountability then moving on before any problems with your work emerge is a great career strategy. 

Though maybe not if their teams hate them. The benefit of being in high growth areas is meant to be that the rising tide makes it hard for you to look bad or to alienate anyone. 

This is the thing. The person who has just left our team was fvcking loathed by everyone. I didn't even realise the true extent of it until now.

I have no doubt that he will bounce from one job to the next until he's managing a team of people somewhere, but I can't see how it isn't going to be carnage at that point.

I considered quitting just because he was in the team. If he was the boss I'd have been on the phone to a recruiter within a month of his arrival.

There are loads of people like this in insurance.  They end up rich and surrounded by fearful, mediocre sycophants in mediocre companies.

Difficult to say whether it's a good strategy.  Personally I'd rather be slightly poorer, surrounded by smart people and working for a decent shop, but it's horses for courses.

Oh well. I don't care as long as wherever he is working is not where I am working.

But I am curious as to how this will end.

I guess it depends on how fragmented your industry is.  Insurance is v fragmented/volatile so unless you are in a niche sector/function you can job hop for a long time before your reputation catches up with you.

They just bounce around between places, so completely unaware of how c*nty they are that their confidence remains undented, and new businesses give them a chance because even though they can smell the whiff of trouble they are greedy too and hope it’ll be outweighed by the business they bring in.

It's the MO of quite a few law firm partners, preying especially on US practices who'll give you a guaranteed draw based on a load of bollox about the size of your book. After 3 years when you've delivered the square root of fook all, it's on to the next firm with more bullshit.  Which brought to mind a conversation on email between myself and another roffer a few years back...

Know any half decent firms looking for a half decent corporate type with a shit following?

No. I may be able to find a shit firm that's looking for a aunt with a made up book though…

It's the MO of quite a few law firm partners, preying especially on US practices who'll give you a guaranteed draw based on a load of bollox about the size of your book.

Yes, I could totally understand this in private practice, but we are in house. I haven't come across anyone like this in the rest of the (very huge) organisation.

After 3 years when you've delivered the square root of fook all, it's on to the next firm with more bullshit.

When I was in private practice I did some work for a partner who is, I believe, now on his fifth firm as a partner. Having gone from some big firms with many partners, to now being one of two. Heh.

I remember being a junior associate under such a partner, he came from a big law firm to our big law firm, did absolutely nothing bar hire junior associates who had no work to do. Inevitably, he left (presumably after his guaranteed draw had ended on the 48th month) to another big law firm, the junior associates got made redundant.

He was a pretty good sales guy and had plenty of chat about the future of his industry and legal practice, he totally nailed the zeitgeist at the time. He just didn't have any clients or billings. 

Lot's in house. Noticeable by their burning envy of the business side and a failure to realise the power that middle office has. Constant preening, closed door whispered conversations, no team spirit. Never realising that this punching down is the antithesis of in house success.

Constant preening, closed door whispered conversations, no team spirit. Never realising that this punching down is the antithesis of in house success.

Ooh yes. This. 100%.

In-house the gobshites who loudly and publicly self promote get ignored and passed over and eventually leave. The ones who quietly self promote only to the people who matter go to the top and you won't even know they've used your work to do so.

And gwan is right, they typically have no idea what a client, transaction or business person looks like. It's all internal legal organising using other people's work.

He used to try to engineer fvck ups in other people's work.

Why? 

Who knows?

Maybe so he would look good by comparison?

But he even did it to a new joiner when she'd been with us for three months and he was already working out his notice?

What's the fvcking point of that?

I was hoping this would be me.

Just move every few years for guaranteed big wedge and then retire.

Alas, I've never had the guts to do it and always ended up delivering.

"On a somewhat related note - anyone here know/know of/worked with Tom O'Riordan?" 

I think you mean Dennis....not the recently departed long distance runner Tom?

It's great for one's career, even if not great morally.

As to what happens when they become a boss - people probably just suck it up. There are so many shit partners out there, and all the associates can do is suck it up or move. Many chose the former, and the latter are simply replaced by others. 

Ok, but say you're a CEO of a large company and you recruit a new legal director. And then all of a sudden, all your in house lawyers are leaving and you're constantly having to recruit to replace them? That's a hell of a cost to the business, especially if you have to use headhunters (which my company does). At what point do you fire the legal director?

As I say, unless the Legal Director is really really terrible, some will just suck it up and stay. Also these things are not instantaneous, they take a few months if not years to unravel. 

Obviously if everyone suddenly quit it wouldn't reflect well on the LD, but it's quite unlikely to happen. And these people know how to play they game, they try to get on the good side of people that matter, such that a few underlings leaving wouldn't tip the balance against them. 

I don't know, it was weird.

I stood and politely clapped as my boss gave a heartwarming leaving speech for him. Now I know that two weeks previously, when the new joiner expressed some concerns about some of the stuff he had said, that same boss said, "look, don't listen to a word he says, he's been nothing but trouble for the last three years and in two weeks he's leaving and he won't be our problem anymore."

Now he's gone, the knives are out and even the people I thought he got on well with are dancing on his metaphorical grave 

Tom O'Riordan hired me for a job way back. I thought he was alright. I know some people didn't like him but I never heard his competence questioned which shows what a crock all the academic signalling in law is.

A CEO of a large company won't spend too long thinking about Legal. The staff turnover would need to be stupendous to the extent of being a regulatory risk before it even got buried in a slide for him not to read.

In-house the gobshites who loudly and publicly self promote get ignored and passed over and eventually leave. The ones who quietly self promote only to the people who matter go to the top and you won't even know they've used your work to do so.

Not at the last bank I worked at. That was a shower of sh1t though