Root

Should he be in the one day team?

 

Great test batsman but I am usually pleased when he gets out in one dayers to be honest and gives the bigger hitters below a chance.   

In a poor batting line up I can see he would be a ballast to build around, but do England need that at the moment?

Suggest you buy  a copy of wisden and stop talking about cricket until you have read it from cover to cover 5 times.

What qmark said - classic hank the plank.  first english player to amass 500 runs in a wc.  when you consider who that pits him against it is fckng impressive.

Yes drop no. 1 ranked Eng ODI batsman to give James Vince a chance. 

Heh, not really, just starting a discussion.   I do think he should drop down the order sometimes when we have a hefty run chase though.

or when batting first and par score is likely to be high...

 

Who the flying fvck is "hank the plank"?

Of course he should, he is our best batsmen. 

You have to last 50 overs to make big team scores and Root ensures that. His strike rate of over 90 is not much lower than Kohlis and is better than Williamson’s and Smith’s. should these players be dropped? 

Have you actually taken note of the winning scores during this competition? 

 

 

you're suggesting we drop the batsman who has made the most runs and has the second highest average in the team?

right

It's a stupid discussion. Yesterday demonstrated it. We are winning, we are invincible, get Buttler in. Yes!!! Buttler has been promoted up the order. Oh look, we've still got 20 overs left to play and Buttler is out. We had the best possible start yesterday and still ended with two bowlers batting.

There are lots of reason why players like Buttler come in towards the end of innings. If he played at 1 and hit 20 an over farming the strike, we would score 1000 runs. But that doesn't happen does it.

Players like Root anchor an innings and having different players out in the middle makes it hard for the bowlers.

And what everyone else said.

England's biggest problem in ODI and Tests IMO is they don't have a solid 3 and 4. Every great team I can think of had another batsman to come in after you got the Ponting, Younis, Dravid, Boon, Vaughan etc. to make you think this isn't over. Look at India since Dhawan got injured - get Kholi out and you feel you are into them. To me it feels like most England batsman are one place to high in the order once you are past Root. Obviously in tests completely useless openers doesn't help either!

Spuri - re your second para, that's pretty much the Windies' plan with Gayle, C. isnt it?  

Spurius, the idea of root dropping down the order in some circumstances has been mooted on quite a few occasions by respected commentators.  When a very big score is required he can slow things down too much because he is not capable of adjusting his play to the full one day slog attack when required.

It has been mooted but it's generally wrong headed for the reasons given on this thread

exciting attacking high strike rate batting is awesome, until you seek to do too much with one that wasn't there to be hit like that and you're out too early.

the real talking point in this series is whether / why conventional wisdom is being inverted and everyone is choosing to bat first with little regard to the conditions...

"England's biggest problem in ODI and Tests IMO is they don't have a solid 3 and 4. "

Another one! 

Our current number three is the second highest ODI scorer in English history. He has the highest number of centuries in ODI cricket of any English batsman ever. Three of the top 15 all time highest scores by English ODI batsmen were scored by our number 3. The only other current English player with a higher individual ODI score than our current number 3 is Moeen.  Our number 3 batsman has the record for the highest partnership for the third wicket in English ODI cricket and the third highest partnership ever overall. Joe Root is also third in the all time list of catches made by England payers in ODI cricket.

 

He is as solid a player as you could ever expect at number 3.  

 

I'm not sure some of you have ever actually even played the game.

Do you understand how the word "and" operates? I thought your lengthy rant was going to end with effusive praise of James Vince as conclusive evidence that England have a world class 3 AND 4. 

Banaman even if you are now saying the problem is that we don't have a solid fourth batsman, you're still wrong in saying we don;t have a solid 3 AND 4. 

"Do you understand how the word "and" operates? I thought your lengthy rant was going to end with effusive praise of James Vince as conclusive evidence that England have a world class 3 AND 4."

I have absolutely no issue with Morgan at 4. Yes he hasn't had the best of tournament's so far (Afghan aside) but he is a dependable batsman who is capable of either shoring up after early wickets or bashing if we need to get the run rate off. He is also a brilliant captain.

I do not think England could wish for a better top 6 in ODI cricket and would say that no other nation's is currently better.

The test side is a completely different kettle of fish and I agree with your point. Root is by far and away the best test player but is exposed too early in an innings to play at 3 given the recent record of our openers. We moved Bairstow up recently to 3 which has worked so far but I do not think that will last as I question his temperament to play that role when under pressure and he is so obsessed with holding on to the gloves that he will have to be moved down the order.

Root at 3 in 50 over is perfect - he lets everyone bat around him, rotates the strike brilliantly, runs quickly and his strike-rate is still nearly 100. 

He also needs to move up to 3 in Test Matches - we can't continue to faff around with no-hope journeymen there.

I'm not so sure about his place in 20-20 stuff - you really need 'gun' batsmen all the way down who can all clear the boundary.

Yes - I think he can be taken out of the 20-20 team. They don't have many international fixtures anyway.

often he is great at number 3 I agree, but when we have lots of wickets in hand and we are in the last phase of the game he can slow things up unnecessarily - all I am saying.

Guy, to be fair to him, Root senses that and if he is batting at say 270-3 with 8 overs left he often just slogs out, half-expecting to get caught and let the next bloke in.

Can  give an example Guy? I haven't seen that this World Cup and as MH has said he is actually self aware enough to start hitting when there is not long left and cavalry to arrive.