Rof Diet People 16/8

So I've been doing CICO and lost a lot of weight, but it gets boring and I start eating at odd times.

I've started to do 16/8 as well really to curb my evening eating.

I start eating between 11 and 1 and don't eat after 7.30.

Issue for me is mornings... I like a real coffee with milk.  Some places suggest you can have milk provided it's under 50 calories and others say none is allowed.  

I really miss my one morning coffee and the lemon tea isn't doing it for me.  

It seems to me that all that is happening is by blending two meals I'm eating less and not scoffing in the evening.  Is there really anything more to it than that?

 

 

Doggers, if it's working for you (you've lost a lot of weight you say) then keep at it. All types of diets are effective for some people, so you have to do what works for you. This works. Have your milk in your coffee. An ounce of milk or so per cup isn't going to break you.

16/8 is just calorie restriction that's easier to follow for some people. No magic.

I agree, but there seems to be some kind of theory that any food stops your body burning fat at the same rate.  Most of the science on this stuff seems flaky anyway.

Technically, anything with calories breaks a fast (the 50 cal thing is BS).  

You seem to be doing ok anyway so don’t overthink it too much.  If I was you, I’d use a bit of double cream (not bloody elmlea though, proper cream), doesn’t cause an insulin response as mostly fat. 

I’d say if you’re avoiding refined carbs in that period (which you are, it’s milk) then you’re probably ok as already noted low insulin spike.

Some milk in your coffee in the morning is going to make fvck all difference to anything. 

All these timed eating type diets all work (to the extent they do) because you eat less overall. 

 

"It seems to me that all that is happening is by blending two meals I'm eating less and not scoffing in the evening.  Is there really anything more to it than that?"

No not really. There is some theory that you burn more calories/more effectively during the fast period than if you ate the same amount of calories over a 12 hour period, but basically it works because most people end up eating less 

Calories In Calories Out Clive.

That means I can't add double cream to anything!

Linda, I'd seen that as a theory but it seems to be just that.  For me, I definitely eat less in two meals than 3, and my downfall is evening snacking so this works (if I have enough self discipline)...

I’d say, fasting to sort your insulin out, black coffee in the morning perhaps. Try to avoid sugar and highly refined and processed carbs. Try not to smack between meals. As this will help you avoid the sugar and refined carbs. Bit of exercise. That’s probably all a person needs to be OK. 
 

CICO I’m not sure as presumably the body will adjust to change eventually and make that approach harder to maintain over time. 

Apologetic naysayer here, but my two penneth is that you shouldn't have anything remotely calorific in your fast period or it isn't a fast and you're activating different processes in your body. Sure it may only be a little milk but I personally would avoid.

I know I've banged on about this before but I do a 24 hour fast, dinner to dinner and then have a day of eating normally and then back on the 24 fast. It means I have a day where I can't have a lovely milky cup of tea in the morning, but the next day I can so it sort of averages things out for me. May not be for everyone but it's a decent compromise in my opinion. And it works for weight loss. Or maintenance if you're a greedy twat like I am, eating way too many takeaways and sweet treats.

Yes,  I can see that Meh, if there is a process going on, those calories would disrupt it.  I don't think I could do 24 hours so 16:8 works.

I'm going to look at zero calorie foods (those horrible synthetic foods) Walden Farms does that shit and this is their creamer.  I'll report back on whether it's drinkable.  Their marshmallow is lush, as is their chocolate spread but it's as far from food as it's possible to be without being a plastic bag.

https://www.dolphinfitness.co.uk/en/walden-farms-coffee-creamer-sweet-cream-355-ml/81373/?ladid=uk&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvcKp8oL_6wIVENZ3Ch3BIANzEAQYAiABEgKRKfD_BwE

Go big or go home.  72 hour fast.  Water only. The real effects only start kicking in once you've completed the first 24 hours (once you're in a state of ketosis) but you do then get the most incredible clarity of thought, regulated blood sugar and insulin levels and the most efficient fat burning for the next 48 hours.  I'd say it has resulted in fat loss of 6lbs on each occasion I've done it.  The effects can be maintained if you stick to keto afterwards but i tend just to go back to normal balanced diet and don't see any yo-yo effect back up.   

I tend not to get hunger pangs in normal times any way so don't find it too difficult so appreciate others might struggle but 3 days pain seems better than 3 weeks on a more calories controlled diet.  

That is great that this works for you, but I don't think I would be able to sustain it.  I'd be likely to binge.

I don't do Keto (I am a veg girl and it's far too restrictive).

I'm trying to lose weight so I'd have to keep doing this?  I think I have (when I was young) fasted for 3 days once on a cleanse thing.  It was awful.  I had the worst headache and it triggered a migraine.

I'll stick at being a tortoise and leave you hares to enjoy yourself wink

One point on the CICO thing. While it's obviously true calories absorbed versus calories burned is the key consideration - some food takes more calories to digest and be absorbed than others. Generally the more highly processed a food is the more readily absorbed, your body doesn't need to do work to get the calories. 

So if you eat 150 calories of raw veg, your body does a lot of work to get those calories and burns a ton off trying to absorb. But if you eat 150 calories of processed white bread, you burn no calories to absorb those, not to mention impacts to blood sugar, fatigue, general metabolism etc.

Source:

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/calories-in-calories-out#beyond-th…

My point is that if it was so simple that calories in calories out for everyone, the obesity crisis wouldn't be where it is. Generally I love simplifying things, but it doesn't help to ignore important caveats to this generalization.

 

I don’t know about the science but I’ve lost 17kg from intermittent fasting. Have been doing 16:8 for the most part but more recently started OMAD. I love it. 

I realise that Canadian.  I would say however that notional "negative calorie foods" aren't proven to exist (and everyone hates celery).

I am not a finely tuned machine however and I suspect the benefit to me is marginal on a "long haul" basis compared to someone else.  I eat a balanced diet of between 900 and 1400 calories a day (depending on what I fancy eating).  a lot of that is veg (massive allotment) and fruit, naturally on a diet I don't really do complex carbs. I eat for health and not the calorie burning prospects.  

I've a tendency to be obsessive and when i concentrate too much on calories,  i restrict my eating too much and end up falling off the wagon..

 

I'm on day 3 of the Fast800 diet and I'm 3lb down already (I know will mostly be water but is still encouraging). You do a 16/8 fast for the first 12 weeks and also only eat 800 cals a day - which sounded like a really small amount at first but it's not been too bad. Although maybe ask me again next week when the initial enthusiasm has waned. 

heh at 6lbs worth of fat loss in 72 hours. FFS.  Think about it for gods sake. How many calories are in there 6 whole pounds of fat?  Its going to be north of 20,000.  How on earth would your body burn 20,000 calories in 72 hours.  Unless you ultra run all day every day while you are doing it then it ain't happening. 

 

I had to look it up Betty, but I couldn't really cope long term on one meal a day! 

I'd end up starving and binge.

I got busy this morning so have only just had lunch. I had a plate of fruit but I had to have a hard boiled egg with it to fill me up.

I ate last at 7.30 last night, if I had to wait for that again, I'd be eating the sofa!

 

Fibre slows carb absorption and blood sugar and insulin levels stay lower for longer. Unrefined carbs usually contain fibre before it’s all stripped away. 
 

GI load also doesn’t always mean blood sugar and insulin go up. It might mean it’s something that just goes straight into your body and f*cks it up. Like fructose and sucrose.

Donny, rather than be snide, and accuse me of lying, why not do some research.  It’s not that hard. 
 

The whole point of ketosis is to go straight to fat as an energy store rather than glycogen.  
 

I have now done it three times with the same result. 
 

 

900 - 1400 calories / day is already quite limited. I also imagine that, depsite being a professional deskjockey, you are quite active daily in lugging hay bales and shovelling shit and walking dogs? I really wouldn't restrict further than where you are. If your intake is genuinely that low and your activity is reasonable, have a chat with a doc rather than cutting down more in case it's sthing like thyroid (or are you judo carter and actually weigh less than8 stone already?)

I've been doing IF since the end of May and while I've come to terms with black coffee, I buy flavored beans and once a week I "allow" myself to add cream. lol... okay sometimes twice a week if I'm having a particularly difficult week. I'd definitely prefer to have it that way every day, but it's an easy way for me to cut quite a few calories, so... until I get closer to a goal weight I'm going to keep this up.

I’m very much ok with black coffee. Strictly having milk means it’s not a proper fast, yes, but then again the impact on insulin and the “spike” will not be for especially long so blood sugars will lower again. If it means you enjoy it and keep at it, probably not the end of the world. 

DW I lost the first 10-12kg doing 16:8 (occasionally 18:6) only.  I ramped it up to OMAD to get over a plateau that I’d hit. I think 16:8 is still great if it will work for you longer term and if you’re happy with slow and steady results. Kicking the evening snack habit is a massive win however you achieve it. 
 

If you’re on Facebook then I highly recommend the “delay, don’t deny intermittent fasting” group for inspiration and tips. 
 

Also, if you want to try something else you could do a green keto smoothie for late lunch followed by earlyish dinner. 100-150g Baby spinach, Half an avocado, 500ml coconut water, 1-2 TBSp of the most nutritious and tasty protein powder you can get your hands on. Blended really well (I do 90 seconds on speed ten in the thermomix). You won’t believe how much like a milkshake it is till you try it....

Donny is right though. To burn 6lbs of fat you're going to need to burn through 21,000 kcal of pure fat. Depending on your size and activity levels you're going to have a BMR of say 1800-2800 a day. So even if you're a tall muscular man, you're still going to take a week of burning pure fat and nothing else to lose 6lbs of flab. 

 

If you drink nothing but water for 3 days you're going to burn through all your stored glycogen. For each gramme of glycogen you store 3 grammes of water. So that's a lot of water gone there. If you do nothing but drink water you're probably also going to be well hydrated, which counterintuitively means you're less likely to retain water.  Something to do with salt and osmosis or something. You will piss a lot. 

 

During this period you might also burn through a few lbs of fat, but probably not more than 2. If you keep the weight off it's probably because the initial success of water weight loss gave you a morale boost and helped encourage you to not reverse the progress. 

 

Sorry to piss on your chips but the maths doesn't lie. 

Agree with Escaped, work out your basal metabolic rate (calories needed in a coma) and do not go under it or you’ll f*ck your metabolism. 

Indeed.  Have no idea what you weigh doggers but 900-1400 calories is pretty shit.  BMR is likely to be higher than that.. add in some moving around during the day and the thermic property of the food and it sounds like you may not be eating enough.

Cue small increases in calories.. until you get to a stage where you are still losing a bit each week but eating a little more.  If you are mainly eating veggies I am struggling to understand why you are struggling with weight... unless it is gingerbread carrots and marzipan fruit.

My basal metabolic rate is apparently 1581.  On that basis, being around 1200 seems fine surely?

If your BMR is that, I would not be going under 1500 personally as it doesn’t take any movement into account so depending how active you are, that’s 300 or so more minimum to cover basic activity.  I’d bet you are actually underrating quite a bit at 1200 and you can totally stall not eating enough.  
 

I lost 2 1/2 stone on keto then increased my intake to stop losing when I wanted to maintain.  I started losing again quite fast (another 7lb) when I upped my intake for a while (upped it more again and now stable), so I figured it out, I wasn’t eating enough.

Thank you bon bon. I'll up it to 1500 and actually start counting properly.  I do a lot of stuff on the land when I'm not working, but work is so busy I've ended up sedentary these last few weeks!

Key for me was logging and counting everything.  When I stopped doing that I stalled and stuff crept in.  It’s a pain in the arse admittedly, but it’s temporary, I don’t log anything now in maintenance as I just know what to have/avoid.  I still fast 18/6 mostly because it just suits me.

Every single persons body is soo different, no one size fits all.  I spent years screwing up my metabolism with 800/900/1000 calorie diets that were low fat, high carb etc.  It took me nearly two months of keto to lose anything at all and 6 months to lose 2 1/2 st, not quick but sensible.  I honestly believe that is due to that.  

I lost about 1.5 stone on keto (or whatever 20lbs works out to) over 2 months, and then had to come off because I was getting too thin for a 6'1" bloke. But damn my abs showed up which was nice to see.

Problem with me and being in ketosis is that it removes my hunger pangs, and I am usually very active, so without hunger I am not very incentivised to eat, which lends itself to OMAD, which isn't giving me enough calories to maintain and I just drop too low, so I come off it.

But I prefer how my brain and gut feels in ketosis. Maintenance is a bitch on keto, I am not a big fan of eating fat rich foods when I'm not hungry, but you need to keep that up.

Early days for me Canadian so have to see how I go really.  Seems to be working ok for me atm.  I did OMAD for a bit, but had to stop as I just wasn’t getting enough in and left feeling a bit sick.  I also feel like I stopped losing in OMAD.  I like the focus and gut health of nutritional ketosis.  I don’t really get hungry so food has become more of a requirement than a pleasure, but probably not a bad thing for someone that used to emotionally eat. 

I can’t really afford to lose too much more so if the scales start moving again, I’ll need to have a think.