A question for Tory voters

Let's ignore the fact that the prime minister is an overprivileged, racist, lying clown and an embarrassment on the world stage and concentrate on purely economic policies. So the questions are:

1. How much economic damage would you accept as a result of Brexit before you stop believing that the Tories are the ones who can be trusted with the economy and that this is a good reason to vote for them?

2. How much damage would you accept to public services as a result of chronic underfunding by the Tories before you decide that actually it's better to raise enough tax revenue to be able to fund schools and hospitals?

3. How many children, nurses, hospital patients, homeless people, disabled people or people whose jobs are at risk from Brexit are you happy to make financially worse off as long as you are alright Jack, before you take a long hard look at yourself?

For the purposes of answering these questions, assume that economic conditions in the UK and the rest of the world are as they are now.

Mutatis mutandis cripes jings anyone know how many children I've got?

At least I suspect that's how BJ would answer the answer

Here's a single question.

Given the tories are refusing to extend transition beyond 12/2020, and a future trade deal will take approx. 5-9 years to negotiation, a No Deal exit is the most likely outcome.  Are you happy to vote for No Deal because that's what a vote for the Tories actually means.

"a question"

most misleading title of a boring monolgoue about how miffed you still are about brexit ever

most misleading title of a boring monolgoue about how miffed you still are about brexit ever

It's a prolif you dumbfuck.

1. A couple of percentage points of GDP. Beyond 11,000 $ per capita of GDP, increases in GDP don't make people healthier or happier.

2. I don't accept that schools and hospitals are "chronically" underfunded. I do accept that an increase in funding is required, which the Tories are promising in their manifesto. Unfortunately, given the ageing population demand is always going to outstrip supply, and crises in hospitals will continue to occur.

3. I pay about £40,000 a year in direct taxation. Plus probably about a similar amount in beer duty (waheey! the Lads!), which is to say nothing of VAT and council tax. I privately educate my children so don't take up the school place to which they are legally entitled in local state primaries, which makes that place available for others. I place literally no burden whatsoever on the state, while providing massive amounts of money to be paid out in benefits, public sector salaries. I do not object to the current level of taxation. I merely object to increases being targeted at higher rate tax payers. I say this because in the UK the top 5% of earners pay a larger share of direct taxation than almost anywhere else on earth. So higher taxation countries spread the taxation burden more evenly.

I say this because in the UK the top 5% of earners pay a larger share of direct taxation than almost anywhere else on earth.

"Highes share of direct taxation" does not equal "higher taxes".

So higher taxation countries spread the taxation burden more evenly.

Higher taxation countries have less wealth inequality.

1. Yawn

2. Eye roll

3. Lol

 

We will now get to model this country in accordance our own image/ideals. Suggest you do the same with your socialist utopia (that doesn't exist).

We will now get to model this country in accordance our own image/ideals.

The fucking state of any country modelled on you.

I'm just looking forward to the unleashing of the rumoured pent up demand for high end London properties.

Lol, the Tories don't give a fuck about any of those things. They'd turn the poor into soylent green if they thought they could get away with it.

if everyone in the country was well off, nobody would want to do shit jobs, which would destroy the country.....so really it is better for the country to keep a decent amount of people poor as fuck, im talking like Rottweiler, couch on the lawn, tank top and domestic abuse poor

Lady Penelope 28 Nov 19 13:46

I reject your questions.  They are framed within the idea that only politicians of the left are or can be virtuous or even morally adequate because they give more to the sick, the disabled, the uneducated, the underprivileged and/or the poor.  
 

This idea is a constant trope of British politics and it is simply mistaken.   All politicians will promise the moon on a stick to get votes but once they get into office they find resources are scarce and allocating them to one group means denying them to another.  There is no side of this which is uniformly and always virtuous or morally correct.  
 

Your questions are wrong.  

It's a good point. If you chose to allocate the state's resources to the poor, you are thus denying them to hedge fund managers, outsourcing company directors, and all of your old university friends. Who are we to judge that the poor are more deserving?

I don't accept that schools and hospitals are "chronically" underfunded

 I privately educate my children

ok boomer

I'm not going to vote Tory this time, but I thought I'd answer anyway.

1. How much economic damage would you accept as a result of Brexit before you stop believing that the Tories are the ones who can be trusted with the economy and that this is a good reason to vote for them?  I want Brexit to happen, and I'd take the 8% GDP being discussed.

2. How much damage would you accept to public services as a result of chronic underfunding by the Tories before you decide that actually it's better to raise enough tax revenue to be able to fund schools and hospitals?  As said above, I support an increase in tax to improve public services.  However I think it is dishonest to say that the NHS and social care crises can be solved by taxing only the higher earner income tax band.  Everyone has to pay more - everyone.  I'd support taxing everyone a bit more, and I already pay my fair share.  I paid £100k in income tax alone last year, never mind indirect taxes.  I think unearned wealth should be targeted.

3. How many children, nurses, hospital patients, homeless people, disabled people or people whose jobs are at risk from Brexit are you happy to make financially worse off as long as you are alright Jack, before you take a long hard look at yourself?  These people voted for Brexit the same as everyone else.  Actions ------->>>  Consequences.  If you want a direct answer, however many would be affected by an 8% GDP shock.  This is the nature of large political decisions.  The opposite side of the coin would be the shock of implementing a semi-marxist theft programme to steal into public ownership currently privately owned companies.  "How many more commuters will you be happy making miserable by doing something which will obviously be a complete disaster?" is the question in reverse.  "How many pensioners' pension pots are you willing to screw?"  "When did you stop beating your wife".

ps - I'm aware it's a prolif before this is mansplained.

tldr pinko, but just fyi it’s a fucking prolif 

and let’s be honest, there’s probably enough voter support to tax increase taxes for u alone

1. How much economic damage would you accept as a result of Brexit before you stop believing that the Tories are the ones who can be trusted with the economy and that this is a good reason to vote for them?

 

as long as it's less than the venezualan type economy the labour party seem to be aiming for

2. How much damage would you accept to public services as a result of chronic underfunding by the Tories before you decide that actually it's better to raise enough tax revenue to be able to fund schools and hospitals?

as long as it's less than the venezualan type economy the labour party seem to be aiming for

 

3. How many children, nurses, hospital patients, homeless people, disabled people or people whose jobs are at risk from Brexit are you happy to make financially worse off as long as you are alright Jack, before you take a long hard look at yourself?

 

as long as it's less than the venezualan type economy the labour party seem to be aiming for

ps - I'm aware it's a prolif before this is mansplained.

The Oracle of Delphi28 Nov 19 16:36

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tldr pinko, but just fyi it’s a fucking prolif 

 

Lol you fucking moron

I want Brexit to happen, and I'd take the 8% GDP being discussed.

That's fucking huge.

Everyone has to pay more - everyone.

Even the people who have less than £100 in savings? What about those who use food banks?

These people voted for Brexit the same as everyone else.

Actually, three quarters of them (on average) didn't. And 100% of the children didn't.

as long as it's less than the venezualan type economy the labour party seem to be aiming for

Lol, it won't be though. There are still some moderates in the Labour party. The Tories are wall to wall chumps.

Yes this was a goppingly stupid comment by pink 

im very happy with the implied suggestion only pro Brexit voters should bear the cost tho 

Alan Partridge28 Nov 19 16:39 ReplyReport | DM

ps - I'm aware it's a prolif before this is mansplained.

The Oracle of Delphi28 Nov 19 16:36 Reply | Report 
tldr pinko, but just fyi it’s a fucking prolif 

 

Lol you fucking moron

lol u fucking moron not realising a pisstake when it flaps its schlong all over ur chops

Lady P clubman is going to Tory as hard and Tory like as he can until his dying breath regardless of the consequences for himself, his family, his country and anything else. He is the red trousered Owen Jones, he is infinitely partisan 

 I pay about £40,000 a year in direct taxation

I privately educate my children

How may children do you have?

What Linda said

clubman and minkie types see being a Tory as 'their ethnic group' rather than a political credo.

It's funny if these types ever face hardship in their life they are the first to pick up a copy of Das Kapital

Tbf to Minkie, she has at least considered not voting Tory.

hotnow28 Nov 19 15:21

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I don't accept that schools and hospitals are "chronically" underfunded

 I privately educate my children

ok boomer

Lady Penelope28 Nov 19 15:24

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Heh.

Okay so let's strip this down shall we:

 

1. I am not a Baby Boomer. I am 41?

2. Even if I was, so what? Only a child thinks "OK Boomer" i.e. an ad hominem attack, is an answer

not when it comes to u tho hot black, because u r an entirely dishonest deb7er. u have no intention of accepting anyone’s argument save ur own, so don’t be surprised when ppl stop responding

Why bring me into this? I haVe not posted on this thread.

I am well old and have voted in many many GEs.,over the years I hVe voted for all the main parties at different times, although I cannot possibly remember the issues and reasons on every occasion.

I consider myself centrist. Left of or right of on various issues, bleeding heart liberal would be a good analogy.

my biggest issue this time round is the hate and division preached by Corbyn. My second biggest issue is the vaulting ambition of Johnson. I have come to terms with brexit and another ref would just ramp the whole sorry issue up another level for a great many more years, whatever the outcome.

Finally, I get much more excited by local elections than GEs, as experience has shown me that local issues and government have a far bigger impact on my life than national issues, and I say that having lived through successive governments from Wilson onwards. I expect this might also be a result of my Liberal Party upbringing - indeed until the age of 15 I was under the impression that proportional representation was the biggest and only political issue in the country. Lol.

“Lady P clubman is going to Tory as hard and Tory like as he can until his dying breath regardless of the consequences for himself, his family, his country and anything else. He is the red trousered Owen Jones, he is infinitely partisan”

I suspect I’m the only person on this board whose efforts have ended up in the labour manifesto. 

Ok sorry minkie you sometimes post like an oblivious rich person but I'm sorry if I have got that wrong x

Sorry to say this Anna - your questions are nothing but empty rhetoric. 

 

If there was ever, and I mean ever, any iota in Labour to rise above their personal greed and save the country from the cusp of disaster, they would have asked Corbyn to step aside, bring in a moderate, proposed sensible alternative policies and won the election.

They simply are enablers of this charade that is JOhnson and they are neck deep in this shit. 

there's pretty much the same poison in both parties Coffers, weird that a Corbyn labour and Johnson Tory party are so alike

Momentum and ERG have definite similarities - both are blinded to realities by ideology.

There is a difference between Corbyn and Johnson though.  Corbyn, however misguided you think he is, wants to transform society for the better - he wants power as a means to an end.   Johnson wants power as an end in itself - he couldn't give a shyte about the country.   

 

to listen to you piss and moan for the next 5 years? priceless

Leaving aside the fact that this is a prolif, Coffers, you plum, my questions are for Tory voters, not Labour voters.

The original thread was for Labour voters, basically asking how much they were prepared to pay in taxes before they'd consider not voting Labour.

My questions are better though because you get some benefit from paying taxes, whereas there is no benefit to Brexit.

hah! didn't check the prolif bit lassie.

that said...asking a bunch why you are voting a certain way because of the threat of a possible outcome is turning a blind eye to the folly that pervades across the spectrum. The benefits of further taxation by a labour government are suspect, at best. 

Agree with sumo's. 

 

Hotblack is smug (like most Tory voters), boasting about how much tax they pay. That sneering sense of entitlement.

With the state of the country as it is, most Tory are simply racists who don't care about the state of the nation or the economy, as long as a racist clown is elected. The Tories will probably win, too, because Brexit has shown what a racist country Britain (or England at least) is, just like in the 1970s (or 1950s).