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Parental Separation and divorce

So, it appears that the long term Cold War stand off between my parents has broken out into a hot conflict at last and, at a minimum, separation is imminent. 

I'm hearing both sides of the argument at present and to a surprisingly large degree they each have a very different view of what the other wants or what has gone on. It's like they are living in two completely different realities. 

Dad has even told me he has taken to blocking the door into his room at night with a chair under the door handle as he says he doesn't trust her not to try and kill him in the middle of the night. 

Seriously. 

Though knowing my mother the way I do, I can't exactly blame him for it either. 

The question I have is.. 

1) Do I attempt to assist them achieve an 'amicable' separation?; or 

2) Do I just stay the FVCK out of the way?

Option 1 - has the extremely likely outcome me being caught in the middle of a war of attrition and being seen by one or the other of me being not on their side..

Option 2 - would be seen as a act of betrayal on my part by both parents. 

I'm fvcked here either way right? Any points, tips or advice on handling this situation would be much appreciated..

 

 

 

 

 

2

sorry you are pretty fooked either way. 

In my experience even attempting to be the sensible one that tries to be a peacemaker/see both sides means that everyone ends up accusing you of betrayal. Be there to listen but don't try and give advice.

 

 

Rubbish, pick a side.

youre screwed if you don't pick a side, but if you choose to pick one you at least have a parental relationship.  I picked right, the other side died before any conclusion, but I was aided by the fact that my father was such a khunt he made jethro look like a nice guy.  So I chose my mum, mad as she is, based on the fact that she would be the least annoying.  I urge you to similarly make a choice.

oh god please don't use the D word

that sent me mental when my sister used it on me to criticise me for still talking to the parents she's had a five year feud with as she felt I should join her side rather than staying neutral

I am literally the only person in my entire extended family who has not fallen out with anyone (not because I am a wonderful sane and calm person, but because I keep my distance and don't get involved with any of them)

Only you know your parents well enough to decide.

Surprised so many here would just stay out of it and effectively disengage from both their parents at a time when their parents probably need them most.

Using the D word will only give them an opportunity to tell me all the many ways I have disappointed them over the years. 

Thing is.. I know my parents. 

Mother goes on a rampage but never actually does anything about stuff.  She has been deliberately trying to make my father miserable enough for him to leave for years. because she won't do it herself. 

The main reason this is happening is one of her friends recently sold their property and got megabucks for it. And its not a patch on my parents place. So she has realized she can sell and leave him. 

But... 

It's owned as joint tenants. So she can't sell without his consent. 

If she doesn't have his consent she needs to apply for a divorce and get a court order for sale in the financial agreement. 

That will take at least two years. She is incapable of sustained effort over that time period to achieve a goal. It just won't happen. 

That said. The current situation cannot go on. 

Do I even tell my dad that he has the right to simply not consent to the sale?

 

Also I know she inherited quite a substantial sum of money when her father died.  She has always kept that separate from their joint finances and refused to disclose how much she received.. and I suspect she has no idea that if she wants 50/50 split on all assets...then he gets 50/50 on her inheritance. 

Are they both happy? It doesn't sound like it if one wants out and one is afraid of being murdered in the night.

Assuming that's the case no one should waste time arguing about consenting to the sale and whether the property should be sold. Get the fook on with the separation. If he can buy her out, lovely.  If he can't, does he really want to spend the rest of his days in a house he owns, but with a chair wedged under the door handle?  It's just a house at the end of the day.

They've wasted enough of their lives, it's about time they made the most of the rest of them.

(And sorry you're stuck in the middle.)

assuming you want a relationship with both parties, 2.

i remember a m8 staying with us one christmas when his parents divorced.

 

if he went to the mother at all he'd hear nothing but how awful his father was. if he went to the father his mother would have exploded.

Nothing surer than that the greedy witch will blow her half of the money and then come crawling back 

Seen it too many times 

Tell your father to sell the whole thing and buy a place for himself which has no emotional hold

To preempt the later inevitable emotional blackmail 

Oh fvck.  This is gonna be crap.  Soz.

I doubt realistically that you will be able to stay out of it altogether.  You can probably play a useful role in explaining to both of them honestly what a realistic outcome looks like money wise so they can at least start to picture their lives post divorce and decide if that is what they want.  In your shoes I'd pay for some family law advice myself to get an accurate picture.

What Pumpkin said about it absolutely being in everyone's best interests to just get on with doing it on the basis of a fair split and moving on asap.

Everyone's time is precious. They are presumably quite old. It's even more precious then. They really shouldn't waste years fighting over money (only to see most of it eaten by lawyers fees anyways).

 

 

 

Neither my father, myself or my brother want the property sold. 

I got a phone call from my brother this afternoon pretty much to that effect. 

Depending on how much it is valued at.. I probably have enough cash on hand to pay out her half. I'm debating doing that and then either getting the whole property put in my name, or getting father to grant a life estate with me as the remainderman. 

This would avoid all sorts of agent commissions/ and reduce the stamp duty and capital gains tax payable. 

It would also allow my father to claim his pension which he hasn't been able to do for the last 10 years because mother refused to disclose her assets for the financial assessment. 

But it means any plans for building my own house will go on hold for at least a few years and retirement will be delayed. 

I'm planning on preparing a memo on the various options available with the pros and cons for everyone involved and then sending it to a family lawyer type to review.

Once they have reviewed it I would then propose to distributed to the concerned parties to form the basis of a sensible discussion on the basis of the available information and options.

 

  

 

 

"I'm planning on preparing a memo on the various options available with the pros and cons for everyone involved and then sending it to a family lawyer type to review.

Once they have reviewed it I would then propose to distributed to the concerned parties to form the basis of a sensible discussion on the basis of the available information and options."

this is a very sensible thing to do, if everybody involved remains rational.

if they aren't rational this is only going to end in anguish

 

 

Why do you want to keep the house: sentimental reasons, as an investment, practical reasons?

 

If it was my parents I'd try and speak to them individually and try and find out what it is that they want: do they still love each other and want to resolve it or do they want to divorce - it may not yet be the forgone conclusion you fear. I'd ask them what they would advise me to do if I was in their shoes.

I'd then tell them that I loved them both but wasn't going to take sides and I didn't want to hear any more about their arguments or what was wrong with my father/mother and that whenever they started complaining about the other one I will just hang up/walk away from that conversation but that otherwise I would always be there for them.

It probably wouldn't work but at least I could feel like I'd tried.

Hope it works out for you.

Glad you approve of my approach clubbers... I was concerned I was being too much of a rational lawyer and dealing with this as another contract negotiation. 

Coracle - divorce is the BEST THING that could happen to them. Everyone who knows them agrees with this. My brother and I both told them years ago that if they were that unhappy with each other then they should just end it and get on with their own lives.

I want the property because I have always wanted the property, ever since I was a kid I have imagined the house I would build there.

It is quite genuinely one of the most spectacular properties anywhere in the world and I say that without exaggeration or hyperbole and having seen quite a bit of the world.

If I get my hands on it though it will never be sold.. so not really an investment. 

 

 

 

 

 

Fair enough. If that's the outcome I'd still approach it the same to firstly try and bring the matter to a head so they can both move on and secondly to get them to think less about who did/said what and instead more about what practically they should do.

I'm not sure buying your mother out is a good idea though. Forget family dynamics: you'll be tying up all your cash for decades with no return and no way out (unless you are going to evict your father). That doesn't seem like a good idea.

Scylla, it's not surprising that it's come to this, just that it took so long. I can only imagine the  emotional turmoil for you and all your family. Feel free to email me if you need a few legal pointers.

Scylla at least you have a brother to help.  As an only child any kind of appearance of side taking gets you grief.  If it was my parents I'd say something to light the blue touch paper and once they're swearing at each other I'd quietly slip out of the house and not come back for some time.

Scy aren't you in the middle of building your own dream house in a beautiful location?  If you have the cash to buy your ma out then fine but not if it stops you finishing your amazing home with the orchards.  And even if you do buy it leaves you needing to buy out your bro's 1/4 when your old man pops it (hopefully not for many years obv).

 

It does seem like you've already picked sides from what is said above.

this may be totally unfair, but it sounds like you are prioritising this house over family 

either that or making the house into some proxy for the happy family you wish you had had which you think you can deliver where others have failed

it can't be so amazing it is worth pulling the family apart even further

let it be sold, let everyone get on with their lives without it hanging over your heads

find your own dream house which has nothing to do with your parents and move on

 

It is that amazing Heffa. 

What I am currently looking at doing is paying mother out her half in cash.. and transferring my current property to dad for his half. This leaves me zero savings in the bank but full outright ownership. 

it also saves a whole bunch of real estate fees and commissions all round.

I then own the whole property with no potential for future claims from either mother, if father kicks it before any final settlement of their divorce, and or brother or his missus if they split (which isn't that unlikely either)

Wang. Dream house is still in design stage.. though orchard and other things are moving along. 

My land stays in the family anyway and my dad will be well pleased with owning it and can build his own little house on it.  Brother can have his 1/2 out of that if he wants it when the time comes. 

I actually think this will be best solution for all and do less harm to the family in the long run than if mother forces a sale as that is going to become very acrimonious very fast. 

Girkl that is very kind of you I may very well take you up on that offer.

 

 

Also Heff..

I'm well aware of how fvcked up my family is.. I'm not trying to replace anything or delude myself about creating some kind of fantasy family perfection in my head. 

Anyone who knows me IRL knows I've never, ever portrayed my family background as in any way functional whatsoever.

FWIW your plan sounds pretty fully formed, but it absolutely will end up with your mum thinking you've fvcked her over on it, if you get it that far. It sounds like you might appreciate that already.

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