Obviously, if you’re actually running a pub business comprising several pubs, you’re not actually going to be directly running a pub in the sense of being the on site “landlord”.
Although, one of the advantages of the latter role is it keeps you on your feet. In mid life I’ve really started to loathe how fvcking sedentary professional desk work is (as well as everything else that’s wrong with it).
Unless you are purely a sleeping investor, it’s a mugs game.
The hours are totally mad, the staffing issues at present many and repetitive, and if you do any time in the bar you will deffo slide into alcohol dependency.
£150k profit per pub p/a seems utterly measly for all the effort, capital and risk needed.
Lovely pub near my sister’s in Sussex. Sadly hasn’t recovered post Covid. Hard to understand why. Food good too. They are sensible and good landlords and it used to be busy. Cannot fathom why it isn’t now Selling to be used as housing. A great loss. Very saddening for the landlord and those who still go.
you’ve got to make them family places to max out the weekend trade. First thing a pub should have is a fvcking massive playground, Ideally with an indoor one for winter. And then really good food.
Looking forward to the opening of the Wheel and Hamster once it’s under new management. I’m sure it will open on time, on budget and be a riotous success.
all the fasseesh on here is gonna look pretty f@ckin dumb when I’m sitting on a portfolio of 20 lucrative dining pubs in the wealthier counties (ie in about five years’ time).
almost impossible to make money from a pub relying on summer weekends- need to think how you get people there during weekday winter nights (same is true of restaurants of course)
Literally the very last thing any pub should do is to try to attract families with kids under 13.
Take up space, drive staff mad, little spend on decent food, no spend on alcohol or coffee, and generally drive away the important boomers who spend big but don’t want screaming urchins.
"Literally the very last thing any pub should do is to try to attract families with kids under 13."
Completely incorrect. Outside of town centres the only model that really works for pubs is an upmarket version of the Harvester ie a family pub oriented around food.
What they said. If it involves UK real estate someone will be there ahead of you xpecting to get rich off your efforts. Seriously Laz - go trade some crypto or just bloz some different docs in a different way.
Tbf I admire anyone that would want to run a pub and moreover would be very suspicious of someone that wouldnt want to. What sort ot boring office loving teetotaller would want to do it in theory. The financial reality though is likely to be shit.
No m88. Crypto is bollox and blozzing fox is bollox. Real merit lies in the creative endeavour that is the generation of value through entrepreneurship You’re not stupid enough to not know this.
I found several freehold pubs on the market for less than £1m even in leafy Kent. The now absolutely nuclear grade hoodoo on charge of use has taken a lot of the wind out of the rapacious speculators. In any event, a lease would do, although there’d need to be a deal on renovation capex. Such deals get done. People make money out of pubs.
Successful country pubs have to attract two groups - the local regulars to keep it busy during the week and the weekend lunch and ideally dinner crowd. The successful ones it seems to me pull this off but it needs careful interior design to make it attractive to both diners and the regulars who want a proper pub atmosphere. Normally involves organising lots of community stuff to keep the pub busy in the week and it is bloody hard work (a very good friend's family own such a pub - and it is very successful but they put in 80 hours a week each). The hard thing is not the weekend food side of the business, that will take care of itself if you have a. good location and a half decent chef but getting locals through the door every evening.
Soz but doesn’t everyone eventually resent the requirement to do something (even something as enjoyable as chatting Shiite to randoms) , as opposed to having the choice to do something on weekends ?
Got a friend who owns several well known bars around the UK. Following some strategic purchases during lockdown, he's now also UHNW as a result. Unfortunately his life sounds like a never-ending HR churn. Countless tribunals, people leaving without notice and, even as owner, mopping up puke and worse.
So not a huge difference to law, except for the $$$.
Arsehole Hall is wronger than Jimmy Saville's life plan again.
Laz there is an ace pub in walton on the hill called The Chequers. This should be your model. Always busy even on week nights and it really isn't very near anything or on the way to anywhere.
running a pub chain isnt running a pub its just running a business like any other - would probably be pretty shit. Running a successful pub sounds attractive running a pub company less so.
Laz, you should get hold of one of the old Punch Taverns securitisation prospectuses. They have a brilliant two or three page summary of the different "types" of pub in their portfolio. Ranging from the cosy country in food pub to the "inner city cruiser" - the latter being described as one on a town circuit where people would stop in for a few bottles of on-offer alcopops
Think Laz has found the pub near me that's been for sale for years. It's just outside a village that already has several decent pubs and was always on the police radar as it was where the less desirable members of the local community tended to go to do "business" followed by doughnuts in the car park.
It's not really even that Guy. Pubs have personalities so there are some places they just don't feel welcome or want to spend their time. There have always been pubs around my local area that are know for being at the seedier end of the spectrum and I suspect it's related to the landlord also having an interest in other areas of business.
I take your point Sails, but I know of various rough pubs that get taken over by a new landlord who promises a fresh start that never really happens - it is tricky because alienating old regulars is not good for business and even if you do decide to alienate the old customers away attracting new custom to a pub with a reputation is extremely difficult.
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You need to be very efficient and very busy to break even.
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You may as well cut to the chase and set fire pile of cash in the back garden m7
save yourself a lot of time, stress and blocked urinals
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classic wrong lawyerbelief about business
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m88 of mine owns 10 dining pubs, upmarket offerings ofc. 150k a year pre tax profit per site
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buying one just as a property investment makes a fair bit of sense if it’s good a good tenant in with a decent term remainjng
8%+ income yield
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I'd be getting paid to be in the pub...
What would you call it
The Swan and Paedo ?
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Obviously, if you’re actually running a pub business comprising several pubs, you’re not actually going to be directly running a pub in the sense of being the on site “landlord”.
Although, one of the advantages of the latter role is it keeps you on your feet. In mid life I’ve really started to loathe how fvcking sedentary professional desk work is (as well as everything else that’s wrong with it).
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No, I think calling a pub the something and paedo would deter customers and be seen as odd
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Unless you are purely a sleeping investor, it’s a mugs game.
The hours are totally mad, the staffing issues at present many and repetitive, and if you do any time in the bar you will deffo slide into alcohol dependency.
£150k profit per pub p/a seems utterly measly for all the effort, capital and risk needed.
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You won't be opening a pub with Super Hans then...
That was his compromise name
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The Pedlar’s Arms.
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Obvs it’s a mug’s game but lax can add it to his list of things he hasn’t done and will curse at everyone pointing that out again.
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the ferret and pederast
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it is well known among people who actually do business (so, none of u guys) not to be a mug’s game at all
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What a bunch of naysayers.
I say laz should go for it, and I fully expect to read about what an amazing success The Cock and Ringpiece is in five years' time.
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I would open a pub with superhans, but I wouldn’t make him compromise on branding
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The Hoops
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A provincial Gentleman’s Outfitters seems a more likely gig for Laz’s talents.
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What the fook's a washing machine in a pub? Jesus, I need a drink.
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Lovely pub near my sister’s in Sussex. Sadly hasn’t recovered post Covid. Hard to understand why. Food good too. They are sensible and good landlords and it used to be busy. Cannot fathom why it isn’t now Selling to be used as housing. A great loss. Very saddening for the landlord and those who still go.
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probably just lack of imagination in how it was run and marketed
round here, literally every pub that survived covid has come back harder faster bigger better more
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you’ve got to make them family places to max out the weekend trade. First thing a pub should have is a fvcking massive playground, Ideally with an indoor one for winter. And then really good food.
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Looking forward to the opening of the Wheel and Hamster once it’s under new management. I’m sure it will open on time, on budget and be a riotous success.
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all the fasseesh on here is gonna look pretty f@ckin dumb when I’m sitting on a portfolio of 20 lucrative dining pubs in the wealthier counties (ie in about five years’ time).
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almost impossible to make money from a pub relying on summer weekends- need to think how you get people there during weekday winter nights (same is true of restaurants of course)
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Literally the very last thing any pub should do is to try to attract families with kids under 13.
Take up space, drive staff mad, little spend on decent food, no spend on alcohol or coffee, and generally drive away the important boomers who spend big but don’t want screaming urchins.
Chez Laz seems destined for Carey Street.
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The only way to make this work is to bring ebitda in as a consultant. He will turn your flat roof failure into a 3 rosette unicorn in 6 months.
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he can certainly get you an overpayed chef pretty easily if you’re in the market for one
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Happy to have a pint there
Let us know when it's open laz
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My local only opens Wednesday to Sunday because of finding staff.
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Please keep kids separate from adults in pubs. By all means have a playground but segregate it
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What sort of pubs are you frequenting?
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I like a pub with proper space for the kids
Means I can generally get away with another couple of rounds and don't have to resort to the iPads
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The very best pubs accommodate kids until the mid evening.
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The Perfect Tun?
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"Literally the very last thing any pub should do is to try to attract families with kids under 13."
Completely incorrect. Outside of town centres the only model that really works for pubs is an upmarket version of the Harvester ie a family pub oriented around food.
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You're allowed to type hungry horse btw lad.
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Good luck finding any freehold pub for less than £1m
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Good luck but there is literally a mini industry in fleecing many many people out of their pensions every year.
They don’t intend to get fleeced obviously, but they have made their money in other non pub ways and they frankly easy marks
The last time I was involved a few years ago situation was so ridiculous one of the big chains had an SPV to benefit from the fleecing
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What they said. If it involves UK real estate someone will be there ahead of you xpecting to get rich off your efforts. Seriously Laz - go trade some crypto or just bloz some different docs in a different way.
Tbf I admire anyone that would want to run a pub and moreover would be very suspicious of someone that wouldnt want to. What sort ot boring office loving teetotaller would want to do it in theory. The financial reality though is likely to be shit.
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No m88. Crypto is bollox and blozzing fox is bollox. Real merit lies in the creative endeavour that is the generation of value through entrepreneurship You’re not stupid enough to not know this.
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I found several freehold pubs on the market for less than £1m even in leafy Kent. The now absolutely nuclear grade hoodoo on charge of use has taken a lot of the wind out of the rapacious speculators. In any event, a lease would do, although there’d need to be a deal on renovation capex. Such deals get done. People make money out of pubs.
hope these truth bombs are clarificatory
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pps Harvester is comfortably upmarket of Hungry Horse. Indeed, there’s an entire tier of the market (Toby Carvery) between them.
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Send links for freeholds where cost + refurb is less than £1m
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what happens at the lion mark m88 do u turn into a pump kin?
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https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/133104641#/?channel=COM_BUY
JV for Laz and Tom, close to City's ground
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Lovely. Lots of potential. Bit on the small side tho
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Think I'd go for somewhere that would attract the walking crowd and family weekend lunchers myself. This place looks ideal
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/132988457#/?channel=COM_BUY
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Successful country pubs have to attract two groups - the local regulars to keep it busy during the week and the weekend lunch and ideally dinner crowd. The successful ones it seems to me pull this off but it needs careful interior design to make it attractive to both diners and the regulars who want a proper pub atmosphere. Normally involves organising lots of community stuff to keep the pub busy in the week and it is bloody hard work (a very good friend's family own such a pub - and it is very successful but they put in 80 hours a week each). The hard thing is not the weekend food side of the business, that will take care of itself if you have a. good location and a half decent chef but getting locals through the door every evening.
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Sounds great. I work 80h a week anyway, many weeks, but sitting down and only ever talking to anyone about law.
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Try a standing desk ? 🙂
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Talking about the law beats standing behind a bar and talking to desperate pub bores for hours on end.
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How the fook are you working 80 hours a week? Sounds mental.
I know what you mean though, 80 hours a week running a pub feels less like "work" than lawyering.
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talking to pub regulars about sport and their dogs etc sounds infinitely preferable to talking about law to me.
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Soz but doesn’t everyone eventually resent the requirement to do something (even something as enjoyable as chatting Shiite to randoms) , as opposed to having the choice to do something on weekends ?
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Got a friend who owns several well known bars around the UK. Following some strategic purchases during lockdown, he's now also UHNW as a result. Unfortunately his life sounds like a never-ending HR churn. Countless tribunals, people leaving without notice and, even as owner, mopping up puke and worse.
So not a huge difference to law, except for the $$$.
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“Talking about the law beats standing behind a bar and talking to desperate pub bores for hours on end.”
No, definitely not sorry. Although running a busy and profitable pub chain won’t leave me much time for chat
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I know two people who’ve been successful at this actually, one of them at scale, and tbh, neither of their IQs breaks the meter
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Arsehole Hall is wronger than Jimmy Saville's life plan again.
Laz there is an ace pub in walton on the hill called The Chequers. This should be your model. Always busy even on week nights and it really isn't very near anything or on the way to anywhere.
used to be george best's fave so I'm told
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running a pub chain isnt running a pub its just running a business like any other - would probably be pretty shit. Running a successful pub sounds attractive running a pub company less so.
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you’re right except for the “probably be pretty shit” part
probably be pretty good is what u mean
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the chequers does look good
every other pub in Kent is called the chequers, including the best one in 7okz
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Laz, you should get hold of one of the old Punch Taverns securitisation prospectuses. They have a brilliant two or three page summary of the different "types" of pub in their portfolio. Ranging from the cosy country in food pub to the "inner city cruiser" - the latter being described as one on a town circuit where people would stop in for a few bottles of on-offer alcopops
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Think Laz has found the pub near me that's been for sale for years. It's just outside a village that already has several decent pubs and was always on the police radar as it was where the less desirable members of the local community tended to go to do "business" followed by doughnuts in the car park.
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sounds good, probably cheap due to reputations issues and will have a good car park for the sunday family trade
ideal raw material
email me the deets
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we are in acquisition mode
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Asti makes a subtle and thoughtful point.
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Laz, do you like doughnuts ?
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no. don’t really have a sweet tooth.
starter guy not a dessert guy
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how do you keep the undesirable crowd out of a rural pub? Just by keeping prices punchy?
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It's not really even that Guy. Pubs have personalities so there are some places they just don't feel welcome or want to spend their time. There have always been pubs around my local area that are know for being at the seedier end of the spectrum and I suspect it's related to the landlord also having an interest in other areas of business.
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It has to make a political statement.
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I take your point Sails, but I know of various rough pubs that get taken over by a new landlord who promises a fresh start that never really happens - it is tricky because alienating old regulars is not good for business and even if you do decide to alienate the old customers away attracting new custom to a pub with a reputation is extremely difficult.
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