Some people just don't want to have kids, and that's fine
I will have kids but on my terms
A lot of people are miserable, idiots and insistent you do things on their time, they schedule, in the way they did it - by a lot of people, I mean most on here
I will have maids take care of them - excellent Asian maids. I will not be changing nappies etc. The uproar that gets on here when I sugget outsourcing those functions.
Then they say they can't afford it - and I say why. They say childcare is too expensive. I say no it's not. They say, what world are you living in. I say, Dubai.
Then they get upset and start wittering about human rights and turbans
Jelly it’s that grey area that makes it a harder call. Some of my m7s have no great passion either way but worry about regret. Not a compelling reason to do it ofc given all it requires of you if you want to do a good job.
Thing is: without kids, 40-80 years old is pretty boring and miserable. You need them to orientate yourself.
Even worse 50-70: what are you going to do in that time? Just chat to your other half for 30-40 years eating dinners out? Or worse focusing on your career or investment funds?!Pah. Ghastly.
Get some kids and have a laugh with them. Get to go on rollercoasters and everything. Keeps you young and gives you perspective.
Far more people should choose not to have kids. It’s easily the most consequential thing most of us could ever do and millions of actual morons pop out multiple kids for whom they are totally unprepared.
Dusty neat nudge to The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost.
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;
Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,
And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference
I’ll do that with my little cousins and their kids and all my friends’ kids. I’ll go sailing when I fancy. I’ll go visit friends overseas without worrying about not being able to afford it because I need three tickets instead of one. I’ll have the energy to shag more than one person so I won’t be stuck chatting to just one person over dinner.
There’s lot to keep me going without them and things I’ll be able to do sooner.
“Thing is: without kids, 40-80 years old is pretty boring and miserable. You need them to orientate yourself.”
Only a parent who cannot conceive of a life without their little darlings would write something like this. It sounds like you had children to alleviate your boredom. If that’s the extent of your creative thinking when faced with a life to fill with exciting adventures, then I feel bad for you.
You kind of do unless you're also in the same arena as womb transplants skin cell DNA extraction and such like that biological essentialists tend to struggle with.
Only a parent who cannot conceive of a life without their little darlings would write something like this. It sounds like you had children to alleviate your boredom. If that’s the extent of your creative thinking when faced with a life to fill with exciting adventures, then I feel bad for you.
nope. Defo not boredom, first kid wasn’t even deliberate. Life is so much richer with them. You don’t know until you know. They are the funniest people you’ll ever meet. You won’t love anyone more - other half / parents whatever.
I wonder how many of these female "non-regretters" actually had the opportunity to have children and passed it up?
Plenty of women, especially in law, never meet someone, in part due to focussing on their career.
Once the biological window is closed I can see need to self- justify their (non) decision
sadly true. Lots of career women (inc in law) run out of time and try to justify as an active decision. Then they get increasingly miserable especially if they’re not in a long term relationship - a lonely life and then they get so used to living “their way” they can’t tolerate a compromise in a relationship.
Bit much Celery. Many women regret having kids but won't tell people about it. Probably even more men do. Bit sad if you can imagine a fulfilling and interesting life without kids. You need them to have a laugh or love people or whatever you are babbling about.
I am in no way jealous of people with kids, where I think it might kick in is post retirement when there is no younger generation around (yes nephew nieces and god children but you will understandably not be their priority). However, I dont think you can have kids if you dont really want them just to make your old age more interesting.
My wife wants kids and I'm indifferent to having them; I would be fine not having them but if we do then I'll be the best dad I can be for them.
When we are with friends with kids, the contrast (for most of them) with how me and my siblings/cousins were raised are astounding. It's like the parents now centre their lives around kids and what the kids want to do or can/can't do - when I was a kid we were left to it and came to parents for meal times/bath times/when bleeding or hurt. But my parents did not plan our days out and give us 100% attention even when on holidays or visiting family/friends.
"we were left to it and came to parents for meal times/bath times/when bleeding or hurt. But my parents did not plan our days out and give us 100% attention even when on holidays or visiting family/friends"
I am exactly like this; other parents seem to find it very odd so I do not socialise with the school gate crowd
I have also found this Canadian, seems to be a huge change in only one generation, at least in the middle classes. The irony is there is much more for children to occupy themselves with now than there was in my day.
I remember reading some study claiming that couples without children are consistently happier than couples with children at home, but people with grown-up/moved out children are then significantly happier in later life.
There's much more focus these days on extra curricular activities which is purely a product of how views have changed on what's needed to get into a good university, etc. It's no longer enough to just go to school and be reasonably competent and do some school organised activities.
I do get annoyed with those who think you can't have purpose without having children.
Totally on subject a friend of mine has just had her second from a donor father yesterday. She's happy but I do occasionally feel sad for her when she's posting videos of leaving hospital on Facebook and it's just her and the pram with no partner. She kind of overshares online because there's nobody at home to share the first time her son walked, etc.
I can imagine if one’s tried to have kids and failed then that might be a source of everlasting regret. But if you’re ambivalent, there’s no right answer. It is possible to be perfectly happy with kids and without, just as it is possible to be miserable with kids and without.
I think the only situation where you might think "oh shit wish I had kids" would be when you are at a level of infirmity that requires someone to keep an eye out for you
but that's a misdirect because even the most attentive kids don't have time to do that and they might not be at all attentive or live in the same country
all existential alarm could be solved with assisted suicide on demand
you could book in once you started to worry about falling in the bath
You've reminded me of someone I know who has three children two of whom live abroad and just leave their brother to look after their mother which doesn't really work as he has learning difficulties and struggles.
I never thought I wanted them. I wasn't vehemently against it or anything but I just thought I would probably be happier without them and that the world didn't really need any more kids. Mrs CC went from feeling roughly the same (or at least saying she did) to being turbo broody almost overnight about 18 months after we got married. I don't regret having them and the thought of life without them now would seem very empty. I am very, very glad we weren't a family with both of us working and living in London when we had them though. I have to say that looks really fecking sh1te but at the same time Mrs CC is paying quite a heavy price for having quit work so it's all swings and roundabouts.
What Dusty said; I too have been with Mr GHF for ten years, married for five, and he didn't want them either. I've never doubted my decision.
I made an early decision not to have children - I approached the NHS regarding preventative surgery in my late 20s but was rejected on the grounds of "you're too young, you'll change your mind" (patronising khunts).
At least five of my close friends have confided in me that they wish they had never had children, and wish they had been brave enough to make such a decision. It was just something I evaluated in terms of impact on my life/lifestyle, and wasn't something I was ever prepared to do.
yeah I think it's v common (and tbf kids literally didn't ask to be born - I don't believe they have any responsibility towards parents in that sense)
Agree wholeheartedly with this.
Although if you raise them right and they’re not psychopaths, then they’ll check in on you anyway. I mean we do check in on elderly neighbours who we know live alone so of course we’d do more for our own parents.
Having kids so there’s someone to look after you in your old age is a terrible idea. Better to save your child rearing pennies and hire 24/7 hot nurses instead when the time comes.
For me having kids is by far and away the best thing I’ve ever done but they are hard work and if ambivalent I really wouldn’t advise it. Equally I would have been ok if I hadn’t been able to have them (I think) - there are many paths through life and many ways to find happiness.
Bit much Celery. Many women regret having kids but won't tell people about it. Probably even more men do.
Barring those poor unfortunates who father or mother the likes of Wayne Couzens, any man or woman who has kids and regrets having had kids is....
either mentally unwell, stupid, or an @rsehole.
Why do I express myself in such strong terms? Simples:
Once you have had kids - that's it. You've got kids. They aren't going away. In that situation, constantly regretting something that you are stuck with for the rest of your life is just mentally ill, stupid, or the behaviour of an @rsehole.
Also, regretting the kids that you have means you have to keep nurturing and feeding those feelings of regret, rather than dismissing them out of your mind like any other intrusive stupid thought that pops into your head - if you do nurture those feelings of regret, of course, it will feed through to the way you treat your kids in subtle subconscious ways, and will negatively impact them - at which point you really are in the territory of the ocean-going pr1ck - choosing to encourage negative thoughts about an unchangeable situation, and thereby causing emotional harm to your kids.
No regrets at having no children, why regret what you can’t have? I have been lucky to be uncle to many and enjoyed them as infants, toddlers, children, teenagers, adults who produce the next generation.
I reckon Sails has a good attitude about having his own children, no desire, no regret. Possibly his own life experience of being parented plays into this. Actually I rate Sails highly anyway, his mellow humour and sense of duty both to others and himself.
Tbf the handful of women I know who have confessed to regretting their kids are without exception married to men who simply do not pull their weight with said kids, leaving the women the choice between sacrificing themselves for their kids wellbeing / marriage or putting themselves first and it all goes up in smoke. I think it’s less regretting the children and more regretting being married to an arsehole. Marry carefully if you want kids…
I’m pretty sure my Mum regretted having us, she’s not actually said outright but near enough.
i never felt broody and mr m was ambivalent so that’s how we’ve been, celebrated 20 happy years of marriage this year.
i do wonder what will happen to us in old age but I doubt having children would alleviate that anxiety and ofc it is not a good reason to regret not having children and anyway I don’t.
Love my kids. Often envy folk who don’t just because they get to do the stuff they want a lot more. Would never change it though. That’s my full analysis.
No regrets at having no children, why regret what you can’t have? I have been lucky to be uncle to many and enjoyed them as infants, toddlers, children, teenagers, adults who produce the next generation.
Very wise. Whether you have kids or don't have kids, regretting the situation you are in is self-defeating, pointless and counterproductive. Change your situation or accept it wholeheartedly. Anything else is madness.
This is the single most important piece of advice one can give on this subject.
150% hard agree.
And not just for the happiness of your family but for wider society. The only way to reduce the percentage of khunts in the world is to outbreed them. Marry and procreate with decent, kind, loving, human beings. Leave the self1sh khunts out of the gene pool.
What Hotblack said about moaning about a situation you can’t change, there’s something to be said for just getting on with it.
Lots of people seem to get kids out of boredom, peer pressure or their own thwarted ambition. That’s not to say having children doesn’t then go on to be great for them but the reasoning for entering into the endeavour is not always noble.
I dont think nobility comes into it. Given current demographics and state of the world having kids is a selfish thing to do. I dont blame people for doing it, but it is a selfish decision. People with kids are also far more selfish in their world outlook in my experience, albeit for understandable reasons.
Maybe regret is not the right word. If they could choose again, they would not choose to have kids.
Not just useless partners either. People who feel like they gave up too much, people who have kids with severe disabilities, people who were super obsessed with being parents and found out it was not what they expected. I've heard of quite a few people in those categories.
My parents have been great and I guess that part of my fear is that I wouldn't be able to do for my kids what my parents have done for me for various reasons. I've learned that doing things half heartedly rarely ends well and that's going to be a disaster when other lives are involved.
It is obviously selfish to have kids and people (mostly but all) become more selfish if when they have kids, that does not mean I blame them for having kids or for putting their kids ahead of other people, its just what happens.
Laz - plenty of other people might find your kids annoying though. I mean, I haven't met them, but it could happen. Weren't you complaining about shouting at one of them the other day?
There seems to be a certain sense of "entitlement" that parents tend to develop i.e. by asking to take their children to events where children are not welcome, or being annoyed if other people complain about them on account of their behaviour. Again, it is just what happens - the parents never think that they are behaving in such a way..
Mumsnet is full of stories posted by "outraged women" complaining about Little Johnny not being allowed to attend a wedding. Some of my friends insist on bringing their child to dinner with other friends (i.e. where it is intended to be just adults) at a restaurant and shoving them in a corner with an ipad (to avoid paying for baby sitters), and then the parents not actually engaging in dinner, but focussing on the child - or, worse, not telling them off when they misbehave and are disrupting the dinner.
Yesterday, I was out for lunch at a local pub and there were two boys (I'd say around 10/11) who were running around the restaurant, getting in the way of staff who were trying to take orders and serve everyone's food. The parents didn't say or do a thing.
I spotted some predictable BS regarding how having children is selfish. People who take this view are, by extension admitting that existence is selfish - they could always altruistically remove themselves from the population if they feel that way.
children are brilliant. Hard hard agree with necessity of marrying well though. It’s a two person job (at least)
As an only kid my parents snuck me into all kinds of events but they would ask first and only do it if they were told it was fine. To be fair I was a super shy little kid so you barely noticed I was there beyond me clinging to my mum's hand.
I am glad I have my 5 and that I have my grandchildren too. I would prefer it if all 5 children have children but at least having 5 there is always going to be a good chance of grandchildren.
However plenty of people choose not to have them. My grandfather was one of 10. None of he 3 women one of whom was a nurse all her life in Wapping had children and only 2 of the 7 boys - my grandfather and the oldest by married or had children. So seven of them never married nor had children, The youngest was born in the 1880s so this is not just a modern thing.
@Glasserz I agree re selfish parents' behaviour in not having their children behave in public, which I've witnessed many times in the UK. However, I would say that the poor behaviour is a function of the low expectations and poor socialisation in the first place.
In southern European cultures it's very usual to have children at group dinners at a restaurant, certainly for family occasions but also for occasions with good friends also. It's one of the cultural distinctions between northern and southern Europe that I notice most (Irish, married to a Maltese). Children would not be running around at all during dinner. Indeed, I've been at more than one restaurant in southern Europe in summer where the proprietors' children/grandchildren are bussing the tables at ages of 10/11.
I remember taking my daughters (6.5 and almost 5) to a concert at the Barbican. The concert was billed as family friendly and we got reduced family tickets, so it was definitely something that children were allowed to attend although in fact there were hardly any children there. When we seated ourselves I witnessed many wary and disapproving faces . At the end of the concert multiple people came up to me saying how well-behaved the girls were and how they had enjoyed watching their faces react to the music. My daughters were at church for an hour almost every week from when they were born so I had a fairly good idea that they could sit still and behave themselves.
The selfishness of parents isnt really about the disruption children cause, there are good and bad parents in that regard. It seems to me, the selfishness is more fundamental than that. It is the fact that the welfare of one's kids becomes paramount and used to justify all sorts of stuff the pre-kids person would not do, the moral compass changes with the welfare of one's own kids is completely paramount to exclusion of all else, including previously held beliefs and regard for society as a whole - I believe this is the real reason people become more conservative as they get older. I DONT blame any parent for this, it is entirely natural, and I am sure I would be the same, it is nonetheless a fact.
it IS quite weird to contemplate that, when you are with a parent and their kids, they would 100% sacrifice you to a passing dinosaur to save their offspring
normally when you socialise with a group it's more equal than that
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Some people just don't want to have kids, and that's fine
I will have kids but on my terms
A lot of people are miserable, idiots and insistent you do things on their time, they schedule, in the way they did it - by a lot of people, I mean most on here
I will have maids take care of them - excellent Asian maids. I will not be changing nappies etc. The uproar that gets on here when I sugget outsourcing those functions.
Then they say they can't afford it - and I say why. They say childcare is too expensive. I say no it's not. They say, what world are you living in. I say, Dubai.
Then they get upset and start wittering about human rights and turbans
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I reckon more people regret having kids than regret not having them by choice
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I think it’s just the road I’m not going to travel. And that’s ok.
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I'm completely fine with not having kids. I've never regretted it.
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It sits more comfortably as I get older.
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If you want them, have them. If you don't, don't.
FOMO isn't a reason for either decision.
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If I were butler rich I would have probably wanted one just to see what it's like
But I ain't
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Jelly it’s that grey area that makes it a harder call. Some of my m7s have no great passion either way but worry about regret. Not a compelling reason to do it ofc given all it requires of you if you want to do a good job.
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My concern has always been the ability to do the job as well as I feel I should.
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Thing is: without kids, 40-80 years old is pretty boring and miserable. You need them to orientate yourself.
Even worse 50-70: what are you going to do in that time? Just chat to your other half for 30-40 years eating dinners out? Or worse focusing on your career or investment funds?!Pah. Ghastly.
Get some kids and have a laugh with them. Get to go on rollercoasters and everything. Keeps you young and gives you perspective.
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Far more people should choose not to have kids. It’s easily the most consequential thing most of us could ever do and millions of actual morons pop out multiple kids for whom they are totally unprepared.
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I hope not clergs.
Dusty neat nudge to The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost.
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;
Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,
And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference
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I’ll do that with my little cousins and their kids and all my friends’ kids. I’ll go sailing when I fancy. I’ll go visit friends overseas without worrying about not being able to afford it because I need three tickets instead of one. I’ll have the energy to shag more than one person so I won’t be stuck chatting to just one person over dinner.
There’s lot to keep me going without them and things I’ll be able to do sooner.
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Not only that Asimov but if you have your own they have to hang out with everybody else’s *shudder*
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Celery - I didn't like kids when I was one and I don't like them now. I think old age will be scary but having kids won't change that.
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I chose not to have kids. It is, without a doubt, the right decision for me. I would have been a terrible parent.
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Celery that’s pretty extreme, it is possible to have a full life without children. Provided you aren’t an insufferable bore.
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“Thing is: without kids, 40-80 years old is pretty boring and miserable. You need them to orientate yourself.”
Only a parent who cannot conceive of a life without their little darlings would write something like this. It sounds like you had children to alleviate your boredom. If that’s the extent of your creative thinking when faced with a life to fill with exciting adventures, then I feel bad for you.
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No one wants to spread the Gagaseed so it's not something I'm going to have to worry about
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As usual, what stardust said
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Fuxache what an escape for the potential neglect case... Have a word with yourself Myra hindley
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I wonder how many of these female "non-regretters" actually had the opportunity to have children and passed it up?
Plenty of women, especially in law, never meet someone, in part due to focussing on their career.
Once the biological window is closed I can see need to self- justify their (non) decision.
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You don't need a man to have a baby if you really want one
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You kind of do unless you're also in the same arena as womb transplants skin cell DNA extraction and such like that biological essentialists tend to struggle with.
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BS2020, you forgot to log in as ironside mate.
I like having children but wouldn’t particularly urge others to do so.
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Mr Smith you can have a baby without a male sexual partner.
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nope. Defo not boredom, first kid wasn’t even deliberate. Life is so much richer with them. You don’t know until you know. They are the funniest people you’ll ever meet. You won’t love anyone more - other half / parents whatever.
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sadly true. Lots of career women (inc in law) run out of time and try to justify as an active decision. Then they get increasingly miserable especially if they’re not in a long term relationship - a lonely life and then they get so used to living “their way” they can’t tolerate a compromise in a relationship.
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Well, I’m married and me and Mr D been together a long time. So is Orwell, actually and similarly they’ve been together ages.
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"a lonely life and then they get so used to living “their way” they can’t tolerate a compromise in a relationship"
Unclear why it's so important to trash other people's decisions to justify your own
I have children and am very happy I do, but I'd never push it on anyone ambivalent about it
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I’ve got a few friends who’ve gladly gone down the donor route. Two of them have even had a second but I’ve never asked if both have the same father.
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Bit much Celery. Many women regret having kids but won't tell people about it. Probably even more men do. Bit sad if you can imagine a fulfilling and interesting life without kids. You need them to have a laugh or love people or whatever you are babbling about.
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Life is far better with kids. Life is also far harder with kids - especially for career minded people.
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I think modern life makes it harder too
I was doing my own thing pretty young
Kids now seem to be "supervised" at 16+
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I am in no way jealous of people with kids, where I think it might kick in is post retirement when there is no younger generation around (yes nephew nieces and god children but you will understandably not be their priority). However, I dont think you can have kids if you dont really want them just to make your old age more interesting.
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My wife wants kids and I'm indifferent to having them; I would be fine not having them but if we do then I'll be the best dad I can be for them.
When we are with friends with kids, the contrast (for most of them) with how me and my siblings/cousins were raised are astounding. It's like the parents now centre their lives around kids and what the kids want to do or can/can't do - when I was a kid we were left to it and came to parents for meal times/bath times/when bleeding or hurt. But my parents did not plan our days out and give us 100% attention even when on holidays or visiting family/friends.
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"we were left to it and came to parents for meal times/bath times/when bleeding or hurt. But my parents did not plan our days out and give us 100% attention even when on holidays or visiting family/friends"
I am exactly like this; other parents seem to find it very odd so I do not socialise with the school gate crowd
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I have also found this Canadian, seems to be a huge change in only one generation, at least in the middle classes. The irony is there is much more for children to occupy themselves with now than there was in my day.
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I remember reading some study claiming that couples without children are consistently happier than couples with children at home, but people with grown-up/moved out children are then significantly happier in later life.
I can completely believe that's true.
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There's much more focus these days on extra curricular activities which is purely a product of how views have changed on what's needed to get into a good university, etc. It's no longer enough to just go to school and be reasonably competent and do some school organised activities.
I do get annoyed with those who think you can't have purpose without having children.
Totally on subject a friend of mine has just had her second from a donor father yesterday. She's happy but I do occasionally feel sad for her when she's posting videos of leaving hospital on Facebook and it's just her and the pram with no partner. She kind of overshares online because there's nobody at home to share the first time her son walked, etc.
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I can imagine if one’s tried to have kids and failed then that might be a source of everlasting regret. But if you’re ambivalent, there’s no right answer. It is possible to be perfectly happy with kids and without, just as it is possible to be miserable with kids and without.
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I think the only situation where you might think "oh shit wish I had kids" would be when you are at a level of infirmity that requires someone to keep an eye out for you
but that's a misdirect because even the most attentive kids don't have time to do that and they might not be at all attentive or live in the same country
all existential alarm could be solved with assisted suicide on demand
you could book in once you started to worry about falling in the bath
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You've reminded me of someone I know who has three children two of whom live abroad and just leave their brother to look after their mother which doesn't really work as he has learning difficulties and struggles.
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yeah I think it's v common (and tbf kids literally didn't ask to be born - I don't believe they have any responsibility towards parents in that sense)
also, I think older people are often really "proud" of their kids and I am not really a person who feels pride so I doubt there would be any pay off
"oh you are a high court judge? ok whatever I wish I had more nice things"
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I never thought I wanted them. I wasn't vehemently against it or anything but I just thought I would probably be happier without them and that the world didn't really need any more kids. Mrs CC went from feeling roughly the same (or at least saying she did) to being turbo broody almost overnight about 18 months after we got married. I don't regret having them and the thought of life without them now would seem very empty. I am very, very glad we weren't a family with both of us working and living in London when we had them though. I have to say that looks really fecking sh1te but at the same time Mrs CC is paying quite a heavy price for having quit work so it's all swings and roundabouts.
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What Dusty said; I too have been with Mr GHF for ten years, married for five, and he didn't want them either. I've never doubted my decision.
I made an early decision not to have children - I approached the NHS regarding preventative surgery in my late 20s but was rejected on the grounds of "you're too young, you'll change your mind" (patronising khunts).
At least five of my close friends have confided in me that they wish they had never had children, and wish they had been brave enough to make such a decision. It was just something I evaluated in terms of impact on my life/lifestyle, and wasn't something I was ever prepared to do.
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Tbh, whether you want kids or you want freedom and nice things, it's all futile and ultimately unsatisfying. That's just the human condition innit.
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absolutely
you cannot win
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"But if you have no children you have left no mark on the world"
Everyone will forget I ever existed within 100 years of my death anyway
Who cares
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In my case probably more like 20 years tops
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most people are forgotten within days of their death
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some before they are even dead
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basically, go Shakespeare or go home
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Agree wholeheartedly with this.
Although if you raise them right and they’re not psychopaths, then they’ll check in on you anyway. I mean we do check in on elderly neighbours who we know live alone so of course we’d do more for our own parents.
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Having kids so there’s someone to look after you in your old age is a terrible idea. Better to save your child rearing pennies and hire 24/7 hot nurses instead when the time comes.
For me having kids is by far and away the best thing I’ve ever done but they are hard work and if ambivalent I really wouldn’t advise it. Equally I would have been ok if I hadn’t been able to have them (I think) - there are many paths through life and many ways to find happiness.
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Wot T'chick said...
...apart form the having kids bit
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Bit much Celery. Many women regret having kids but won't tell people about it. Probably even more men do.
Barring those poor unfortunates who father or mother the likes of Wayne Couzens, any man or woman who has kids and regrets having had kids is....
either mentally unwell, stupid, or an @rsehole.
Why do I express myself in such strong terms? Simples:
Once you have had kids - that's it. You've got kids. They aren't going away. In that situation, constantly regretting something that you are stuck with for the rest of your life is just mentally ill, stupid, or the behaviour of an @rsehole.
Also, regretting the kids that you have means you have to keep nurturing and feeding those feelings of regret, rather than dismissing them out of your mind like any other intrusive stupid thought that pops into your head - if you do nurture those feelings of regret, of course, it will feed through to the way you treat your kids in subtle subconscious ways, and will negatively impact them - at which point you really are in the territory of the ocean-going pr1ck - choosing to encourage negative thoughts about an unchangeable situation, and thereby causing emotional harm to your kids.
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No regrets at having no children, why regret what you can’t have? I have been lucky to be uncle to many and enjoyed them as infants, toddlers, children, teenagers, adults who produce the next generation.
I reckon Sails has a good attitude about having his own children, no desire, no regret. Possibly his own life experience of being parented plays into this. Actually I rate Sails highly anyway, his mellow humour and sense of duty both to others and himself.
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What Dusty, Hools and Glasserz said.
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Tbf the handful of women I know who have confessed to regretting their kids are without exception married to men who simply do not pull their weight with said kids, leaving the women the choice between sacrificing themselves for their kids wellbeing / marriage or putting themselves first and it all goes up in smoke. I think it’s less regretting the children and more regretting being married to an arsehole. Marry carefully if you want kids…
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Or leave quickly
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I think it’s less regretting the children and more regretting being married to an arsehole.
I think this is very insightful, and in fairness to mothers or fathers in such situations I would amend my original statement to:
Barring those poor unfortunates who father or mother the likes of Wayne Couzens, any man or woman who has kids and regrets having had kids is....
either mentally unwell, stupid, or an @rsehole (or married to an @rsehole, and really regretting the marriage not the kids).
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I’ve never met anyone who says they regret having kids but their might be an omertà around that.
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I’m pretty sure my Mum regretted having us, she’s not actually said outright but near enough.
i never felt broody and mr m was ambivalent so that’s how we’ve been, celebrated 20 happy years of marriage this year.
i do wonder what will happen to us in old age but I doubt having children would alleviate that anxiety and ofc it is not a good reason to regret not having children and anyway I don’t.
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Marry carefully if you want kids…
This is the single most important piece of advice one can give on this subject.
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Love my kids. Often envy folk who don’t just because they get to do the stuff they want a lot more. Would never change it though. That’s my full analysis.
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Kids do make life better.
Don’t get offended now. I’m not telling you you should have, or should have had, kids.
But they do.
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No regrets at having no children, why regret what you can’t have? I have been lucky to be uncle to many and enjoyed them as infants, toddlers, children, teenagers, adults who produce the next generation.
Very wise. Whether you have kids or don't have kids, regretting the situation you are in is self-defeating, pointless and counterproductive. Change your situation or accept it wholeheartedly. Anything else is madness.
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*there.
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Marry carefully if you want kids…
This is the single most important piece of advice one can give on this subject.
150% hard agree.
And not just for the happiness of your family but for wider society. The only way to reduce the percentage of khunts in the world is to outbreed them. Marry and procreate with decent, kind, loving, human beings. Leave the self1sh khunts out of the gene pool.
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What Hotblack said about moaning about a situation you can’t change, there’s something to be said for just getting on with it.
Lots of people seem to get kids out of boredom, peer pressure or their own thwarted ambition. That’s not to say having children doesn’t then go on to be great for them but the reasoning for entering into the endeavour is not always noble.
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Hotblack
I don’t mean this unkindly mate, but nobody reads even one word of what you post on here.
HTH
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I dont think nobility comes into it. Given current demographics and state of the world having kids is a selfish thing to do. I dont blame people for doing it, but it is a selfish decision. People with kids are also far more selfish in their world outlook in my experience, albeit for understandable reasons.
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Bit offensive, Guy.
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Well of course having kids is selfish. So is going on living. Doesn’t mean either is wrong.
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re making life better, it depends on what you like and what your resources are
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having kids isn’t selfish
hooe this simple clarification assists u now fook off tx
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We became much more selfish with children, your focus becomes so narrow it’s hard not to be.
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that’s not selfishness
it’s common sense
nobody outside your family matters, so why treat them as ir they do? Do you imagine you will get karma points for it?
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what if your kid were boring or annoying, though (I mean as a person, not in the innate basic level way)
I don't accept that one's family is always the most important thing
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Make society function better so your kids can be adults in a well adjusted community.
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Maybe regret is not the right word. If they could choose again, they would not choose to have kids.
Not just useless partners either. People who feel like they gave up too much, people who have kids with severe disabilities, people who were super obsessed with being parents and found out it was not what they expected. I've heard of quite a few people in those categories.
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Thanks Fofro.
My parents have been great and I guess that part of my fear is that I wouldn't be able to do for my kids what my parents have done for me for various reasons. I've learned that doing things half heartedly rarely ends well and that's going to be a disaster when other lives are involved.
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“what if your kid were boring or annoying, though (I mean as a person, not in the innate basic level way)”
nobody with a normal brain finds their own kid boring or annoying
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It is obviously selfish to have kids and people (mostly but all) become more selfish if when they have kids, that does not mean I blame them for having kids or for putting their kids ahead of other people, its just what happens.
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my mum once said that
what is a normal brain, though?
I bet loads of people don't have one
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Laz on what basis is having kids not selfish? I prefer your patter on architecture in the city of London.
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Laz - plenty of other people might find your kids annoying though. I mean, I haven't met them, but it could happen. Weren't you complaining about shouting at one of them the other day?
There seems to be a certain sense of "entitlement" that parents tend to develop i.e. by asking to take their children to events where children are not welcome, or being annoyed if other people complain about them on account of their behaviour. Again, it is just what happens - the parents never think that they are behaving in such a way..
Mumsnet is full of stories posted by "outraged women" complaining about Little Johnny not being allowed to attend a wedding. Some of my friends insist on bringing their child to dinner with other friends (i.e. where it is intended to be just adults) at a restaurant and shoving them in a corner with an ipad (to avoid paying for baby sitters), and then the parents not actually engaging in dinner, but focussing on the child - or, worse, not telling them off when they misbehave and are disrupting the dinner.
Yesterday, I was out for lunch at a local pub and there were two boys (I'd say around 10/11) who were running around the restaurant, getting in the way of staff who were trying to take orders and serve everyone's food. The parents didn't say or do a thing.
That sort of behaviour is selfish.
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What Glasserz said. Parents have v weird blinkers on a lot of the time.
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I spotted some predictable BS regarding how having children is selfish. People who take this view are, by extension admitting that existence is selfish - they could always altruistically remove themselves from the population if they feel that way.
children are brilliant. Hard hard agree with necessity of marrying well though. It’s a two person job (at least)
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As an only kid my parents snuck me into all kinds of events but they would ask first and only do it if they were told it was fine. To be fair I was a super shy little kid so you barely noticed I was there beyond me clinging to my mum's hand.
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I am glad I have my 5 and that I have my grandchildren too. I would prefer it if all 5 children have children but at least having 5 there is always going to be a good chance of grandchildren.
However plenty of people choose not to have them. My grandfather was one of 10. None of he 3 women one of whom was a nurse all her life in Wapping had children and only 2 of the 7 boys - my grandfather and the oldest by married or had children. So seven of them never married nor had children, The youngest was born in the 1880s so this is not just a modern thing.
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@Glasserz I agree re selfish parents' behaviour in not having their children behave in public, which I've witnessed many times in the UK. However, I would say that the poor behaviour is a function of the low expectations and poor socialisation in the first place.
In southern European cultures it's very usual to have children at group dinners at a restaurant, certainly for family occasions but also for occasions with good friends also. It's one of the cultural distinctions between northern and southern Europe that I notice most (Irish, married to a Maltese). Children would not be running around at all during dinner. Indeed, I've been at more than one restaurant in southern Europe in summer where the proprietors' children/grandchildren are bussing the tables at ages of 10/11.
I remember taking my daughters (6.5 and almost 5) to a concert at the Barbican. The concert was billed as family friendly and we got reduced family tickets, so it was definitely something that children were allowed to attend although in fact there were hardly any children there. When we seated ourselves I witnessed many wary and disapproving faces . At the end of the concert multiple people came up to me saying how well-behaved the girls were and how they had enjoyed watching their faces react to the music. My daughters were at church for an hour almost every week from when they were born so I had a fairly good idea that they could sit still and behave themselves.
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The selfishness of parents isnt really about the disruption children cause, there are good and bad parents in that regard. It seems to me, the selfishness is more fundamental than that. It is the fact that the welfare of one's kids becomes paramount and used to justify all sorts of stuff the pre-kids person would not do, the moral compass changes with the welfare of one's own kids is completely paramount to exclusion of all else, including previously held beliefs and regard for society as a whole - I believe this is the real reason people become more conservative as they get older. I DONT blame any parent for this, it is entirely natural, and I am sure I would be the same, it is nonetheless a fact.
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How do you explain the long term labour types with kids then?
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Like the ones who quietly pay for private schools lol.
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it IS quite weird to contemplate that, when you are with a parent and their kids, they would 100% sacrifice you to a passing dinosaur to save their offspring
normally when you socialise with a group it's more equal than that
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yes, I have thought that Clergs, especially with old friends who you knew pre their kids. I am always on my guard...
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labour would benefit most families with kids Rue Rue.
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totally! it's one of the sadnesses of others having children
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