This Netflix Madeline McCann investigation/documentary

bit of an odd one right? 

Why? Is this based on the content (haven't watched it) or the whole debacle or wot?

1. I find the subject matter odd

2. it was put up on their schedule for release next week then suddenly pulled off it, is out next week or not? who knows

 

I bet there's lawyers faffing about in the background. We ruin all the fun.

or maybe they just left it in a room while they went for a quick tapas

OO what's it called I havent seen that on my list

 

There is a whole conspiracy of silence surrounding the Portuguese/ Spanish Costas concerning child kidnapping 

Might upset the tourist trade you see

Too bad the McCanns weren't warned.

I genuinely believe the parents know exactly where she is and what happened to her.

Because they accidentally killed her and disposed of the body, presumably.

Yeah, my money is on some kind of accident whilst the parents left their three toddlers unattended for the evening, and them deciding to dispose of the body and cry "kidnapper" rather than admit to what really happened and risk being struck off/going to prison/having their remaining children taken away by social services.

But I'd still shag Kate McCann.  Just so long as Gerry doesn't leave me alone with her whilst he goes out for tapas.

The whole thing is bizarre.  The options seem to be (in no particular order)

- Anna's theory

- she was kidnapped by paedos

- she was kidnapped by romany folk

Each of these seems unlikely tbh.  

 

Another possible option is that she got out of the room, got run over and dumped somewhere by whoever ran her over.

Or maybe she wandered off and roams feral along the lines of torres eating wild tortoises

I guess I must be weirdly naïve because I genuinely find it bizarre that people would do that....

Of course, none of these possible occurrences could have happened if the parents hadn't left their young children alone in a holiday let in a foreign country.

I guess I must be weirdly naïve because I genuinely find it bizarre that people would do that....

Don't you find everything about the McCanns' behaviour bizarre though?

The outcome is the crime's own punishment if anything happened.  Leaving kids alone is not cool.

I used to be of the opinion that they’d sedated their kids somehow and accidentally od’d her but as it goes on and on I actually think they’re being genuine, if incredibly distraught, and desperately trying to figure out wtf happened.

Also, wood the mum. She’s a fox.

Don't you find everything about the McCanns' behaviour bizarre though?

Haven't paid a huge amount of attention tbh...I'd have to read into it and I really am not sure I want to :(

 

 

stardust06 Mar 19 15:23

I guess I must be weirdly naïve because I genuinely find it bizarre that people would do that....

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You're not, I am on the same page

People do not accidentally kill a kid, panic and then try to hide a body in a holiday resort and pretend kidnapper, it draws massive attention whereas "our kid accidentally choked or whatever" is just a bit tragic

The problem with conspiracy nuts is that they like to live in a nice comfortable world where everything hangs together perfectly and there is always a sensible explanation even if that explanation is "oooh, an evil master mind did it!" 

The reality is that the world is maddeningly chaotic and sometimes weird bad shit just happens, you know, the way we trust the economy to work? that's how life basically works too

I agree with Sumo. It's more likely to be something nefarious than an unfortunate accident imo. That said, you would have expected there to have been a genuine lead by now, esp with all the resources being thrown at it.

SummerSails06 Mar 19 15:19

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Another possible option is that she got out of the room, got run over and dumped somewhere by whoever ran her over.

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Sailo, have you been watching series 1 of The Missing?

I have watched the Missing but was some time ago.

Sumo your theory ignores the fact that I think Mr. Mcann probably has a foul temper and may have lashed out and accidentally killed her and people then do try and cover it up.  A kid choking whilst unaccompanied is an entirely different scenario.

A different scenario is a different scenario.  fuck me sailo it's like socrates has been reincarnated.  

Fvck me there are some proper dickheads on here sometimes.

Anna, you're not talking about bumming Kate McCann or being maddeningly but consistently simple so you get a pass.

BadmanRoFer06 Mar 19 15:26

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The outcome is the crime's own punishment if anything happened.  Leaving kids alone is not cool.

 

This is the stupidest fvcking thing I've seen written on nu rof, and that is saying something

Well Wang Sumo was talking about accidentally killing a child and that encompasses a huge range of options some of which are tragic accidents and some of which are not.

What kind of accidentally killing a child doesn't count as a tragic accident, Saillo?

I'm struggling to think of one, unless you're suggesting that sometimes it's not tragic if the kid in question was a little shit.

No I'm just thinking about where you get into the realms of being criminally liable and it moves from accident to something which might be construed as a deliberate act.  If a kid trips up and smacks its head and dies that's a tragic accident but if you give the kid a hefty shove and it dies that's not so much of an accident.

You literally said that accidentally killing a child can encompass a huge range of options, some of which are tragic accidents and others are not.

Are you saying that some accidental killings of children are not accidental, or that some accidental killings of children are not tragic?

the idea that they "did it" is ridic

what and then managed to hide all forensics in an unfamiliar landscape without being caught?

and if they had done it they wouldn't still be making a fuss now would they, they would have let it go after a few months

I think the fact that they are quite cold people (as many doctors are) has played against them. If you're not rending your clothes and wetting yourself at the slightest misfortune the masses think you're fucking jeffrey dahmer.

with apols for that cookiesque ref to "the masses" there

this sort of thing happens really fucking often, just not usually to parents with the means to command this sort of profile

What I meant, ZG, was that if the McCanns did - in fact - leave the kids alone and Maddie either died in a freak accident or got kidnapped, then they do not need to be punished further, as the terrible consequences of their negligence is something they'll have to live with until the day they die.  I can't understand the lynch mob mentality.  They've suffered enough. 

~Babel fish translation begins~

 

THEY SHOULD HAVE PUT THEIR "COMPO FACES" ON IN THE DAILY HEIL, THEN NOBODY WOULD HAVE SUSPECTED THEM!

 

~Babel fish translation ends~

I stand by my statement about blowing my beans up Kate McCann's arsehole though.

I suppose the difference between the McCanns being unfit parents and a homeless junkie being an unfit parent is that they can now definitely be trusted to learn from their mistakes enough to take proper care of their remaining kids, so probably no need for social services to intervene on that front.

To lose one child due to your own negligence may be regarded as unfortunate... (to paraphrase Lady Bracknell)

I reckon they could have disposed of her body. They'd both have been smart enough to avoid making basic mistakes to trip them up on forensics, and I guess being nice middle class doctors (and Kate apparently being considered a MILF by most men) the police probably didn't scrutinise them that closely but focused all their efforts on chasing down a non-existent kidnapper instead.

the police scrutinised them endlessly

they found some DNA in the boot of their car (bit unsurprising given it's a bloody beach holiday etc) but nothing more

they wouldn't have had access to sterile clothing, they wouldn't have known the terrain or tide patterns or bin collection dates

there is NO reason to suspect them

when they were kids it was really common to leave kids unattended so I don't even agree that they were negligent

they were fucking unlucky and paid a hideous price and all the judging is just witchhunts for the noughties (shall I examine myself or some other random... which would be less uncomfortable)

and if they had done it they would not have put all that effort into a bloody international awareness campaign

they would have cried a bit on tv then slunk off

I just think all of this is a bit like the "sandy hook never happened" stuff

yknow, ANYthing is possible but probably best to err on the side of not being mean to the parents of the dead small child

and if they had done it they wouldn't still be making a fuss now would they, they would have let it go after a few months

I think that the guilt and regret of leaving the kids alone (whether or not they "did it") has driven much of their actions since.   That alone must be horrific. 

 

 

But when their kids were kids it was not common to leave kids unattended, and they fucking well knew that.

I was born nearly 20 years earlier than Madeleine McCann and my parents were like, "What the fuck were they thinking, leaving their kids alone like that?"

In fact, I remember having a row with my parents because they wouldn't leave me alone in a holiday apartment while they went to the supermarket in the middle of the day. I was about 10.

They might have been unlucky, but that doesn't make them any less negligent.

well yes it is very probable that she died horribly at the hands of a child trafficking ring so they probably are a bit deranged about it all

and if they had done it they would not have put all that effort into a bloody international awareness campaign

Why not? Classic deflection. Hiding in plain sight. If we make a massive deal about this then no one will ever suspect we had anything to do with it.

yes but it's very easy for your parents to judge

I doubt you were in their eyeline for your entire childhood

the righteous indignation is just a bit "burn her"

I don’t think it was common but they took a chance, knowing their kids and knowing that they weren’t far away (c 300m). Iirc there was another family as well who did the same and they all took it in turns. Not sure how old the oldest kid there was. 

 

I just think judging them says more about the judgers than anyone else

and the tv idea is gross

but then I hate all true crime

my friend is really into true crime about fred and rose west at the mo and I keep wanting to be like LALALALA NO NO SHH

I doubt you were in their eyeline for your entire childhood

No but they never went out drinking and left me unattended. Not once.

If you can't cope with small humans restricting your ability to go out and eat tapas like carefree twenty-somethings then don't have kids.

I think that is a pretty miserable and unrealistic perspective.

And probably quite common (well I didn't have a fun time raising my kids so why should those bastards)

 

How often was 5 year old clergs left alone whilst her parents cavorted?  this may explain all your mum issues and why you hate your sister so much?

It's only for a few years, while your kids really do depend on you for everything. And even during that time you can do it once in a while if you've got a babysitter you trust.

Come on. Your kids being safe and well cared for is a bigger priority than you having fun, which, if I'm not mistaken, is part of the reason why you don't want any.

And it's a good reason for not having them, FAOD. Maybe Kate and Gerry should have made the same choice.

my parents did not once cavort how DURR you 

but I travelled witout them a lot (I went to Canada with a group when I was 10 and Argetina when I was 13)

when I was a baby the mums  used to leave our prams outside the shop or cafe they were in, with us inside, just lined up in the street in a capital city

I am sure loads of kids were kidnapped and abused and killed, actually, we just didn't hear about it

But I still do not think those parents were negligent. I think life is a balance and the idea that you should be doomed forever for popping along the road for dinner is arse talk

well they did and no doubt their twins are very loved and healthy and I hope that their parents have managed some sort of equilibrium

So at what age do you think it is not negligent to leave a child alone for a prolonged period of time? 

that seems a weird tand disproportionate take, wang

do you think the only natural response is to demand their destruction? would that be good for their remaining children? and you have literally never done anything less than 100% in caring for all of your children? children can be kidnapped while you are asleep ffs (see eg alesha macphail)

But when their kids were kids it was not common to leave kids unattended, and they fucking well knew that.

They might have been unlucky, but that doesn't make them any less negligent.

Completely agree and I'm not suggesting otherwise.  They could have hired a babysitter if they wanted to go out sans kids. 

I know they could, kimmy. I am not saying they did a grade A job that night. I just think let he who is without shit balldropping cast the first stone

children can be kidnapped while you are asleep ffs (see eg alesha macphail)

But they weren't asleep, they were out drinking sangria and eating tapas.

They did not "drop the ball", which could happen to anyone. They completely failed in their most basic duty as parents. 

I havent given an opinion on the mcann case other than saying it's odd.  

I've given an opinion on your fckd up childhood as presented by you.  

I don't agree and evidently nor do any of the services that have been involved with them since it happened.

Anna all killings of children are tragic.  Some times the death of a child is a genuine accident for which nobody is responsible but clearly there is a scale and as you become more reckless as to the danger you put your child in the less accidental the death is up to the point where clearly someone becomes responsible for that death.  If a supervised child trips and bangs their head and dies despite the best efforts of the people present and medical staff that is a genuine accident.  If a child is playing up and standing on a chair and you give it a smack and knock it off the chair and it bangs its head and dies then you start to get to the point where the death was foreseeable and into the territory of manslaughter although there was no intention to cause death.  Some people would argue both deaths were accidents.

I was certainly left asleep in an unlocked building while my parents had dinner outside every night for two weeks in August every year for 10 years or so.  They were only just outside the bedroom window but anyone who tried taking me would have had a head start by the time my parents had run round the house to the front door.  That assumes that they even heard anything over the noise of their own boozed up conversation with half a dozen friends.

So all accidental killings of children are tragic but some accidental killings of children are not accidents. Right-oh.

re the prams thing that was entirely normal BUT when my mum ocne visited the midlands her friend said they couldn't do it there

so I accept England is a horrible place for babyeating ogres etc

I really liked the independence my parents gave me, I was grateful for it. I don't suppose it would work for every kind of child but I think kids are much more likely to rebel properly if you, say, won't let them stay in the house on their own for a night at 14 (thinking of someone in particular who said this earlier today and I thought huh? maybe the kid is a party kid tho)

Yes Anna you appreciate there can be a range of views on whether something is an accident and whether someone is in fact liable?  After all that's what keeps our ambulance chasing brethren in business.

You appreciate the independence given to you when you were abandoned in a pram?  

fckng stop it, you're trying to be laz

We were always left on our own as kids where we lived - hell I used to have to walk home from primary school alone and wait outside for my dad to show up after he finished work - but never on holiday and I would hazard a guess that in general my dad gave rather less fucks about us than Gerry and The MILF do about their spawn.  So yeah it was stupidly negligent IMO and I reckon they know it and must feel horror guilty.

The thing is, if the McCanns had taken the most basic care of their own children, their daughter wouldn't have disappeared, and if she hadn't disappeared then there wouldn't have been millions of £/€ and years of police resources wasted on trying to find this one child, which could have been spent investigating other crimes. Perhaps it could have been spent looking for other missing children whose parents weren't negligent, but being less middle class and media savvy than the McCanns, didn't get the same attention. 

Probably those parents look far less like utter filf than Kate tho.

Ha no tbf I perpetrated a small digression BUT I think the freedom I enjoyed when older stemmed from a generally relaxed approach re Constant Vigilance.

I feel sort of contempt for those parents now.

I don't claim any specific knowledge on this. 

But I don't think the parents had anything to do with it, and I don't think that leaving your kids in a locked apartment 300m away from having dinner is negligent. 

If it is.. then my parents should be spending a lifetime in jail for the way they raised my brother and I. 

We were left alone to our own devices for the whole of the school holidays while my parents were at work on a remote farm property with no phone. 

I do believe she was taken by a third party. I do think there is a very limited chance she is still alive.  There are a lot of people who disappear and turn up years later or never at all.

We all watch far too much TV and think that the police solve every murder or disappearance but the cold case rate is actually quite high with many murders where they have a body, let alone missing persons, never solved.  In fact, a further 30 children under the age of 17 have disappeared in Portugal  since Maddy disappeared its not like she is a significant crime outlier. 

I don't think the parents would have had the time, opportunity or knowledge to dispose of her corpse in a manner that has been so effective that she has never been found.

I feel nothing but empathy for them I can't imagine what they have been through in the years since. 

Sensible stuff Scylla. The simple fact is that no one knows what happened, it’s a tragedy whatever happened, and a typical chance to pile on for the hell of it. 

Also what Clergs said

 

I think the fact that they are quite cold people (as many doctors are) has played against them. If you're not rending your clothes and wetting yourself at the slightest misfortune the masses think you're fucking jeffrey Dahmer.

Frankly if I'm ever accused of anything I'm going to be completely fvcked because my go to emotion when under stress is total shutdown. 

 

 

 

In fact, a further 30 children under the age of 17 have disappeared in Portugal since Maddy disappeared its not like she is a significant crime outlier.

So why aren't they getting the same attention and resources? What is so special about Madeleine McCann? 

Thing for me is, as a parent, if it had happened to me and raised 5mil from the public to fund a search, I would not use large chunks of that money for legal fees to defend my own reputation. 

My view would be "Think I'm khunt? Yeah well no more than I do mate, so get on and say what you have to say and let me keep looking".

 

This is the bit that really does not sit well with me re the McCanns reaction to the whole sorry episode.

Frankly it’s the fact they are photogenic and middle class and won’t let it lie

To keep getting funds, they must have a lead of some kind. Surely.

Yeah, they haven't exactly been very humble about the whole thing, have they? 

It's all, "SOMEBODY entered our apartment and STOLE our innocent daughter" outrage. I would have more time for them if they said, "We never should have done what we did and we will regret it for the rest of our lives but please help us find our daughter." 

The fact remains that, but for their negligence, Maddie would almost certainly be a normal 15 year old girl getting ready to take her GCSEs. 

Gerry and Kate were very poor parents IMHO.

Went on holiday with 3 kids and packed them off to ‘kids club’ no sooner than Gerry could get his tennis whites out.

Left 3 precious children alone in a Villa whilst they were gobbling down Tapas.

Their actions speak very loudly.

 

Lady Penelope06 Mar 19 19:07

Yeah, they haven't exactly been very humble about the whole thing, have they? 

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FFS Anna

have a word with yourself 

Parents who have had a kid stolen shouldn't need to crawl on their hands and knees over broken glass wailing "we made a stupid mistake" to get your bluddy acceptance

You sound like Alex Jones here

Tbf “humble” and “Anna” are words not often seen near to each other on rof. 

People who claim they had a kid stolen during an evening where they negligently left their children completely unsupervised definitely do need to be more humble than this to get any sympathy from me.

Even if they are telling the truth and she was taken by a mystery kidnapper, it's still at least 50% their fault, because the bogey man could not have taken her if they had been doing their most basic fucking job as a parent and taking care of their children. 

"even if", you absolute nut bar

I suppose it's the fault of a rape victim for wearing a short skirt in your world too, not the criminal? 

 

I wonder how many other crimes have gone unsolved and how many other victims have not got the justice they deserved due to the enormous amount of police resources devoted to this one, entirely preventable, crime?