I loved him as a young man but a writer with his muscular masculine writing became very dated in his own lifetime. Represents perhaps the final flourish (with half a dozen others) of male literary novel - women seem to have taken over now.
Only read one of his books, long time ago. I really ought to read the canon now. I don’t remember thinking it was amazing, but a lot of people (including on here) whose opinion on literature I respect do seem to rate him.
Him not you. He is a virtuoso but also a professional fraud in the sense that any position he takes as a writer is just a pose.
Not really his fault, can't imagine what it would be like growing up learning how to behave from (and be a success in the eyes of) the monstrous egotist who fathered him.
The first part of Guy’s sentence is true. That’s just sales numbers, and is a widely known fact within the publishing industry. It get commented on an analysed endlessly. It’s not a contentious statement.
The preferences of women is less clear, although it is true just in terms of publishing, woman authors outnumber men on literary fiction. It snaps back to broadly 50/50 when other types of fiction are included because the men outnumber women when it comes to genre fiction.
Spurius what is stupid/wrong about it? As Kaulback says the first part of of my sentence is simply true and the second part reflect my experience of friends and family. Seems to me fairly obvious that the reason women have over taken men in the literary novels sector is that women tend to relate better to books written by women and they are doing most of the reading.
I read Money while doing a vac scheme in London during a really hot summer. Great book and perfect time for me to read it.
Read his Inside Story autobiographical novel last year. First half is brilliant, and full of the types of observations that set his best stuff apart from his contemporaries IMHO.
Second half a bit long and self-indulgent.
You might say that works as a parallel for his career, but the early great stuff more than makes up for the later patchy stuff.
Is that true, about men no longer reading literary fiction? It may be, but my question would not so much be as to how many men read lit fic now, as how many ever did, at least compared to women.
My favourite novel, the Secret History, is written by a woman but with a convincingly male narrative voice
The main characters all seemed to speak like Finch from American Pie - odd thing in a lot US work that seems to think cleverness and pretentiousness are one and the same thing, or at least inseparable.
I suspect it depends a bit how you define 'literary fiction' vs 'genre fiction' (and how much you think that distinction is relevant to much of anything).
Looks like a good time for a Rof anecdata poll of do you read lit fic are you m / f to me then all conclusions for the gen pop can be most accurately drawn
I think some stuff is obviously genre, e.g. all the Mills & Boon that Clergs likes. Whereas, for example, Wolf Hall is a bit trickier to pigeon-hole as just either historical fiction or literary fiction
There have been bits and pieces in the press correlating the increasing decline in male authors getting published in lit fiction, and declining male readership in lit fiction.
The interesting thing about Inside Story - described on its face as A Novel - and that seemed to get left behind was he was reclaiming auto fiction from the tedes like Knausgarrrrrrrrddddddd and very other yawnfesting fvcker scribbling under the misapprehension they had an interesting life worth sharing. Mere decades after being dissed for introducing a character called Martin Amis into one of his novels. Amis didn’t do categories. He wasn’t pissing around. He saw himself in the tradition of his heroes Nabokov and Bellow. He was also and if anything a better critic. The greatest prose stylist of his generation.
Weird foible of the men-don't-buy-literary-fiction thing (which is true, they make up about 20% of buyers) is men buy almost 50% of translated literary fiction specifically.
IME it is generally men who prefer the sex of the authors of the books they read to be M rather than F. My favourite authors include Julian Barnes, Alan Hollinghurst, William Boyd as well as Margaret Atwood, Kate Atkinson and Annie Proulx. I liked some Martin Amis, but he's not one of my favourites. I met him once at a book signing (The Information) and he was cold and unfriendly, but I guess you can't always be in the mood for such events. He is also very small physically.
I read a lot of fiction, classics, thrillers and contemporary lit fiction but sort of stopped at about the age of 35 (except when on holiday) and now read mostly non fiction - many of my friends the same. It is weird and I cant really explain why.
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Same age as Kingsley. This will take a while.
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One of the few public figures I can say affected my life.
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I loved him as a young man but a writer with his muscular masculine writing became very dated in his own lifetime. Represents perhaps the final flourish (with half a dozen others) of male literary novel - women seem to have taken over now.
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I suspect his writing is due a massive comeback following his death.
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"Muscular masculine... male"
I think the word you are looking for is insecure.
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Eh? Me or him? I loved his writing
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The act is about as convincing as Norman Mailer.
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No idea what you are talking about tbh
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Only read one of his books, long time ago. I really ought to read the canon now. I don’t remember thinking it was amazing, but a lot of people (including on here) whose opinion on literature I respect do seem to rate him.
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Him not you. He is a virtuoso but also a professional fraud in the sense that any position he takes as a writer is just a pose.
Not really his fault, can't imagine what it would be like growing up learning how to behave from (and be a success in the eyes of) the monstrous egotist who fathered him.
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the problem male novelists have is that men have by and large stopped reading literary fiction and women generally prefer to read other women.
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Never in my life before have I heard such a stupid comment about literature.
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The first part of Guy’s sentence is true. That’s just sales numbers, and is a widely known fact within the publishing industry. It get commented on an analysed endlessly. It’s not a contentious statement.
The preferences of women is less clear, although it is true just in terms of publishing, woman authors outnumber men on literary fiction. It snaps back to broadly 50/50 when other types of fiction are included because the men outnumber women when it comes to genre fiction.
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Spurius what is stupid/wrong about it? As Kaulback says the first part of of my sentence is simply true and the second part reflect my experience of friends and family. Seems to me fairly obvious that the reason women have over taken men in the literary novels sector is that women tend to relate better to books written by women and they are doing most of the reading.
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Ok I'm probably completely wrong. I haven't seen the evidence for this though.
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I personally don’t have a preference for male or female authors or female male leads in the fiction I read.
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I read Money while doing a vac scheme in London during a really hot summer. Great book and perfect time for me to read it.
Read his Inside Story autobiographical novel last year. First half is brilliant, and full of the types of observations that set his best stuff apart from his contemporaries IMHO.
Second half a bit long and self-indulgent.
You might say that works as a parallel for his career, but the early great stuff more than makes up for the later patchy stuff.
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Is that true, about men no longer reading literary fiction? It may be, but my question would not so much be as to how many men read lit fic now, as how many ever did, at least compared to women.
My favourite novel, the Secret History, is written by a woman but with a convincingly male narrative voice
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Never got the appeal of secret history.
The main characters all seemed to speak like Finch from American Pie - odd thing in a lot US work that seems to think cleverness and pretentiousness are one and the same thing, or at least inseparable.
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I think it’s always been true that men read less literary fiction than women. Dunno if the difference has become more pronounced in recent times.
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I suspect it depends a bit how you define 'literary fiction' vs 'genre fiction' (and how much you think that distinction is relevant to much of anything).
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I think it’s always been true that men read less literary fiction than women. Dunno if the difference has become more pronounced in recent times.
I do. It has
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Looks like a good time for a Rof anecdata poll of do you read lit fic are you m / f to me then all conclusions for the gen pop can be most accurately drawn
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Also define lit fic
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And maybe your other genres of choice really get it going
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I think some stuff is obviously genre, e.g. all the Mills & Boon that Clergs likes. Whereas, for example, Wolf Hall is a bit trickier to pigeon-hole as just either historical fiction or literary fiction
There have been bits and pieces in the press correlating the increasing decline in male authors getting published in lit fiction, and declining male readership in lit fiction.
Correlation doesn’t equal causation, obvs.
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The interesting thing about Inside Story - described on its face as A Novel - and that seemed to get left behind was he was reclaiming auto fiction from the tedes like Knausgarrrrrrrrddddddd and very other yawnfesting fvcker scribbling under the misapprehension they had an interesting life worth sharing. Mere decades after being dissed for introducing a character called Martin Amis into one of his novels. Amis didn’t do categories. He wasn’t pissing around. He saw himself in the tradition of his heroes Nabokov and Bellow. He was also and if anything a better critic. The greatest prose stylist of his generation.
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I do wish Darcey would leave.
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Weird foible of the men-don't-buy-literary-fiction thing (which is true, they make up about 20% of buyers) is men buy almost 50% of translated literary fiction specifically.
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IME it is generally men who prefer the sex of the authors of the books they read to be M rather than F. My favourite authors include Julian Barnes, Alan Hollinghurst, William Boyd as well as Margaret Atwood, Kate Atkinson and Annie Proulx. I liked some Martin Amis, but he's not one of my favourites. I met him once at a book signing (The Information) and he was cold and unfriendly, but I guess you can't always be in the mood for such events. He is also very small physically.
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the only fiction I read is lit fic but tbh I don’t read much of it - five novels a year maybe - I am more of a non fiction guy
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I read a lot of fiction, classics, thrillers and contemporary lit fiction but sort of stopped at about the age of 35 (except when on holiday) and now read mostly non fiction - many of my friends the same. It is weird and I cant really explain why.
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